Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

[Beyond Blue]

According to Lloyd and kornes

View attachment 1527224

Hard to take seriously when he forgets to even name one team (Brisbane).

 

[Blue__Balls]

The odd thing is we embarked on a full-blown rebuild i.e. strip right back, get as many high picks as you can and hit the draft. We should have a higher number than usual of drafted players in our team.

We could potentially win a flag next year with only 4 guys drafted during the SOS era playing - Weitering, Charlie, Harry and Walsh.

Obviously there would likely be a few of Cuningham, JSOS, Fisher, TDK, O'Brien and Cottrell added to that, but individually none of those are certainties to be in our best side.

The real imbalance with us is, the traded in players are simply better than most of our high draft picks, which really shouldn't be the case.

I think this is where there's scope to critique the approach that the club and SOS took in the early stages of the rebuild.

Academically, sure, it makes sense to offload some senior players with value for decent draft picks, fill out the list with discounted former high draft picks who are struggling at their current clubs, and draft with as many first round picks as possible.

But in hindsight, we may not have had the right core of senior leaders or the right coaching team in place to actually develop those high draft picks effectively.

Most clubs only take one first round draftee a year, and as a result those players are a valuable commodity. When a club takes 8-10 of them over 3 years (or whatever the number was) then it stands to reason those players aren't getting the same level of targeted coaching and development as they would have if they were the sole "marquee draftee" for a club.

 

[Coona Blues]

With Brisbane fiddling with pick swaps, I am starting to think they are in play for the Bowes deal. Pick 7 pays nicely for Dunkley. Bowes is a Queensland boy, so staying home should be very attractive.

 

[Blue__Balls]

With Brisbane fiddling with pick swaps, I am starting to think they are in play for the Bowes deal. Pick 7 pays nicely for Dunkley. Bowes is a Queensland boy, so staying home should be very attractive.

Wouldn't have thought Brissy would be in a great position to absorb that contract though, especially when bringing in Dunkley at the same time.

 

[ferrisb]

Also symmetry with picking up Young for about the same - basically a 12 month delayed swap with the Dogs in which we sent them a 32 year old Jones (and 18 months out of the game) in exchange for a 23 year old Young who showed a lot in his debut season with us.

Also gives symmetry in our trade of SPS - we effectively got Acres for SPS which is a big thumbs up (for now anyway).

Young definitely an upgrade on Jones (based on age, rather than talent)

Acres presents as a clear upgrade on what SPS was dishing up in his last season with us.

 

[Bletch]

With Brisbane fiddling with pick swaps, I am starting to think they are in play for the Bowes deal. Pick 7 pays nicely for Dunkley. Bowes is a Queensland boy, so staying home should be very attractive.

It would make sense for a Bris/GCS trade if they can afford it. Brisbane would want a bunch of the Suns' later picks (they've got heaps) as well, and prob give a couple of future picks in return, including the one they've just picked up. And the Suns want points next year.

 

[Earls Smother]

I think this is where there's scope to critique the approach that the club and SOS took in the early stages of the rebuild.

Academically, sure, it makes sense to offload some senior players with value for decent draft picks, fill out the list with discounted former high draft picks who are struggling at their current clubs, and draft with as many first round picks as possible.

But in hindsight, we may not have had the right core of senior leaders or the right coaching team in place to actually develop those high draft picks effectively.

Most clubs only take one first round draftee a year, and as a result those players are a valuable commodity. When a club takes 8-10 of them over 3 years (or whatever the number was) then it stands to reason those players aren't getting the same level of targeted coaching and development as they would have if they were the sole "marquee draftee" for a club.

We must have done something wrong. We were sold the vision of "be patient, watch them grow etc." Now we are replacing a lot of them.

We have had 7 drafts since the rebuild commenced in 2015. I understand we traded out some picks, but we would be lucky to field a double-figure number of players drafted since then in a hypothetical premiership team next year. An average of just over one a year. As you and others have mentioned, there would be 13-ish traded players in our best side, plus Cripps who we already had.

 

[Burgers45]

I like Lloyd for speaking his truth but to not have us in the conversation for flag contenders but have port and dogs ahead of us is just crazy.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I am very optimistic about our chances next year. With our expected improvement, our best 22 are capable of beating any one of those sides on any given day. As previously mentioned by "EagleEye" ArrOw, where do they rate Brisbane?

 

[Coona Blues]

Wouldn't have thought Brissy would be in a great position to absorb that contract though, especially when bringing in Dunkley at the same time.

Bowes said to be happy to spread the salary over multiple years, could be managed with some retirees in coming years. A couple of other trades could ensue.

Can see pick 7 going on a journey.
GC to Brisbane
Brisbane to Bulldogs (Dunkley)
Bulldogs to Freo (Lobb plus Freo first)
Freo to Melbourne (Jackson as part of the package)

 

[Magical_EddieBetts]

Cal Twomey reporting that Nick Hayes and Lachie Whitfield

6

Lachie Whitfield

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.3

5star

M

6.3

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

411.8

5star

D

21.4

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

8.9

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.8

3star

MG

350.6

5star

D

17.6

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

are gettable ...

 

[Burgers45]

Cal Twomey reporting that Nick Hayes and Lachie Whitfield are gettable ...

Would love one of those players, Haynes might be cheap due to an ordinary season, but according to Austin we're now going to the draft.

 

[FRUMPY]

Cal Twomey reporting that Nick Hayes and Lachie Whitfield are gettable ...

gettable if you have something to offer and cap space.......so we are out

 

[Blue__Balls]

Cal Twomey reporting that Nick Hayes and Lachie Whitfield are gettable ...

Strangely, of the two I think Haynes is the better option for us.

30yo tall/medium intercept defender, genuine leader and organiser down back. I'd play him ahead of Marchbank if we're serious about a flag tilt. Not sure on cost, but if it was anything from Pick 30 out I'd probably be keen. I don't think the club would see it that way though, they'll be backing Marchy and Gov in and won't want to overcapitalise in that area.

Whitfield I'd assume would be on a hefty contract, feel like his form has tapered in the last few years, and we've just brought in Acres for the wing position. I reckon he'd also cost more, probably late first round territory, on the basis of his name moreso than his form.

 

[Stamos]

The odd thing is we embarked on a full-blown rebuild i.e. strip right back, get as many high picks as you can and hit the draft. We should have a higher number than usual of drafted players in our team.

We could potentially win a flag next year with only 4 guys drafted during the SOS era playing - Weitering, Charlie, Harry and Walsh.

Obviously there would likely be a few of Cuningham, JSOS, Fisher, TDK, O'Brien and Cottrell added to that, but individually none of those are certainties to be in our best side.

The real imbalance with us is, the traded in players are simply better than most of our high draft picks, which really shouldn't be the case.

This ignores a couple of factors that had a huge influence over our list build:
1. The truly terrible state of our list when SOS took over. This is the 8th off-season since SOS came in, and we have 3 players left from then (1 being the uncontracted Ed Curnow who didn't play a game this year). And
2. The timing in relation to the introduction of the expansion clubs, which meant there were a high number of young high pick drafted players available for cheap trades.

No doubt it would have been better if we nailed every high draft pick, but that doesn't mean that our list is unbalanced.

 

[skadoosh]

 

[Earls Smother]

This ignores a couple of factors that had a huge influence over our list build:
1. The truly terrible state of our list when SOS took over. This is the 8th off-season since SOS came in, and we have 3 players left from then (1 being the uncontracted Ed Curnow who didn't play a game this year). And
2. The timing in relation to the introduction of the expansion clubs, which meant there were a high number of young high pick drafted players available for cheap trades.

No doubt it would have been better if we nailed every high draft pick, but that doesn't mean that our list is unbalanced.

No, not unbalanced in the sense that we don't have a good mix of talent (and age) across the ground. We have done well given the draft failings.

But if someone had said to you in 2015 "how many players drafted from now on would you expect to be playing in your best team in 2023" most sensible peoples' answer would have been way higher than the likely 8 or 9.

We are getting to our destination via a different and slower route than we could/should have IMO.

 

[Blue__Balls]

We must have done something wrong. We were sold the vision of "be patient, watch them grow etc." Now we are replacing a lot of them.

We have had 7 drafts since the rebuild commenced in 2015. I understand we traded out some picks, but we would be lucky to field a double-figure number of players drafted since then in a hypothetical premiership team next year. An average of just over one a year. As you and others have mentioned, there would be 13-ish traded players in our best side, plus Cripps who we already had.

Yeah, some blame the recruiters for picking the wrong kids, some the coaches for screwing their development. Personally, I just don't think we had a suitable high performance culture at the time, the fans were asked for patience, but I suspect that filtered through to the players as well who became inured to losses. And when I say players, I mean both the draftees themselves who were just sticking it out and expecting it to all come together at some point, and the leaders who seemed to have no burning desire to push the side back up the ladder. It was a lot of people just sitting around and waiting for a switch to be flicked.

That's probably an overly simplified and somewhat harsh take. I'm sure the players hated losing, I'm sure they were training hard, but I don't think the low expectations did anyone any favours in terms of creating a competitive culture. We expected to lose, so we did.

 

[F_therest]

Bowes, Bruhn and Ollie Henry after winning the premiership? This upsets me.

3 talented young players to go along with the likes of SDK, Close, Holmes & Stengle. Suddenly their youth would look really good and they'll regenerate on the run, most likely still contending other the next few years.

 

[Stamos]

No, not unbalanced in the sense that we don't have a good mix of talent (and age) across the ground. We have done well given the draft failings.

But if someone had said to you in 2015 "how many players drafted from now on would you expect to be playing in your best team in 2023" most sensible peoples' answer would have been way higher than the likely 8 or 9.

We are getting to our destination via a different and slower route than we could/should have IMO.

Definitely slower.
We essentially wasted 4 years of progress, 18 - injuries, 19 - Bolton went off the rails, 20/21 the disastrous Teague appointment, all combined with some poor development and the handicap of covid.

It's completely unrealistic to think you're going to nail every high pick, but we certainly would have had higher hopes for Samo, Dow and Stocker, and then also some of those later picks who showed promise, like Williamson and Macreadie.

 

[muzza99]

Cal Twomey reporting that Nick Hayes and Lachie Whitfield are gettable ...

I am sure they will get to Geelong somehow

 

[bettyblue]

Bowes, Bruhn and Ollie Henry after winning the premiership? This upsets me.

3 talented young players to go along with the likes of SDK, Close, Holmes & Stengle. Suddenly their youth would look really good and they'll regenerate on the run, most likely still contending other the next few years.

Geelong will go back to back

Sent from my moto e(7) using Tapatalk

 

[Coops93]

Cal Twomey reporting that Nick Hayes and Lachie Whitfield are gettable ...

Lachie Whitfield....

 

[zeggie]

Strangely, of the two I think Haynes is the better option for us.

30yo tall/medium intercept defender, genuine leader and organiser down back. I'd play him ahead of Marchbank if we're serious about a flag tilt. Not sure on cost, but if it was anything from Pick 30 out I'd probably be keen. I don't think the club would see it that way though, they'll be backing Marchy and Gov in and won't want to overcapitalise in that area.

Whitfield I'd assume would be on a hefty contract, feel like his form has tapered in the last few years, and we've just brought in Acres for the wing position. I reckon he'd also cost more, probably late first round territory, on the basis of his name moreso than his form.

Haynes looked like he was near cooked this season personally.

 

[Jeremias]

Premiership sides are draft based. No more than 4 to 6 from other clubs. If you can not develop your own players, it is hard to win a flag

Geelong just won a flag with 7 from other clubs, plus an additional Irishman, 2 blokes who didn't get picked up until their mid 20s, and a former ****ing steeplechaser.

These sweeping statements about what does and doesn't work when it comes to list management really need to stop. Things don't work until they do.

 

[Jeremias]

Lachie Whitfield....

Is on a monster contract that we shouldn't look at touching even if GWS are chipping in.