Free Agency Brandon Ellis [Signs for Gold Coast, Richmond receive #39 compensation]

[THE_GUN]

In the current flawed system you're right
If you weren't offering him a contract or a 250k 2 year deal then you shouldn't be rewarded for him leaving. The system needs to be adapted.

I think Richmond would have kept him for $350k a year x 3 years

 

[Neale4brownlow]

Didnt deserve a band 1. Band 2 not enough so be it. They couldve matched his contract if he was so important to them.

My main issue with compo is you find out what you get after the player is gone.

Removes any chance to match based off all the information. Tigers were licking their lips for getting paid overs (19) and freeing up cap space for younger better players.

AFL rightly shut that down I wouldve thought.

We got shafted when we lost Scott Selwood. I suspect we wouldve matched had we known the compo was that bad.

Yet that worked out well for us.

Offloading ellis' salary for no picks at all is still a win for tigers. He's barely best 22 next year.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Tough luck tigers

 

[gcsunsfc]

I think Richmond would have kept him for $350k a year x 3 years

what would appropriate compensation be for that contract?

 

[HARKER]

In all honesty its really not that big a deal 18 spots and i trust our recruiters to find another gem like they have done last few years
But the thing is these clowns at the AFL actually have the nerve to just do what they like without an explanation thats the part that sh!ts us

It is a big deal because everyone knows it's wrong.
If it was a Gold Coast player going to Richmond, would have the compo been the same?

We may well laugh when someone else is on the end of an injustice, but it doesn't make it right.
Most reasonable people would be sick of the AFLs constant manipulation.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The AFL is totally corrupt, has been for decades, but people just tend to laugh when it’s an opposition club and not their own.

It’s the reason they get away with it, they know damn well 17/18ths of people won’t give a **** - in fact they’ll probably enjoy it.

The AFL know this full well so manipulate things however they like.

 

[lewdogs]

Honestly, the saltiness of the Tigers fans is incredible. You won a flag only a week ago, oh but of course the AFL is corrupt and just out to get you.

Spare me.

 

[HARKER]

Honestly, the saltiness of the Tigers fans is incredible. You won a flag only a week ago, oh but of course the AFL is corrupt and just out to get you.

Spare me.

One has nothing to do with the other.

There's a principle at stake and the integrity of the league as a whole. Wrong is wrong on this issue.
Fact that Richmond has won a flag has nothing to do with anything else.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Honestly, the saltiness of the Tigers fans is incredible. You won a flag only a week ago, oh but of course the AFL is corrupt and just out to get you.

Spare me.

i think many richmond fans are pretty chuffed at getting turtle neck out of the club

those two flags are nice too

 

[perplexed]

We’re ‘exploiting’ the system by not being happy our compensation pick is in line with identical deals?

We can’t ‘exploit’ the system, we don’t have control over the pick.

But much to expect the compensation criteria to be applied equally hey?

Ellis's contract was clearly designed to maximise compensation, just as Vickery's was a few years ago. It was a good try, it worked last time but not this time.
You guys have just won a flag and have effectively used free agency to swap Brandon Ellis for Tom Lynch and pick 39. Yet you whinge.

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

The AFL is totally corrupt, has been for decades, but people just tend to laugh when it’s an opposition club and not their own.

It’s the reason they get away with it, they know damn well 17/18ths of people won’t give a fu** - in fact they’ll probably enjoy it.

The AFL know this full well so manipulate things however they like.

This really is the heart of it. The AFL has important mechanisms as part of the competition that are lazily applied by ‘the feel of it’ instead of by the letter of the law as a fair competition would have it.

This is why we get a priority pick system showered in secrecy, a lack of clarity around compo picks and a score review system that has been shoddily revamped and been a work in progress since inception.

And you’re right, the majority of fans don’t care.

Next time you’re at the footy and the middle aged dude sitting directly behind you starts yelling “pick em up!” when your team is clearly playing a zone, turn around and blame him for the amateur way the AFL is continually allowed to operate under.

 

[Opine]

Broadly, the outcome FEELS right. It just does; perhaps even a touch overs. The Herbs and Spices formula worked well on this latest occasion.

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

Broadly, the outcome FEELS right. It just does; perhaps even a touch overs. The Herbs and Spices formula worked well on this latest occasion.

Are you comfortable with a professional sports organisation operating by that maxim?

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

Ellis's contract was clearly designed to maximise compensation, just as Vickery's was a few years ago. It was a good try, it worked last time but not this time.
You guys have just won a flag and have effectively used free agency to swap Brandon Ellis for Tom Lynch and pick 39. Yet you whinge.

Not sure how playing within the rules to your advantage is exploiting.

I know you think I’m biased in this because I have a Richmond icon next to my name, but go read my thoughts on FA compo in the Trade Radio thread, I make it pretty clear that the system is unfairly designed for big successful clubs to prosper while smaller clubs find it much harder to break a developmental and mediocre cycle.

Stop making judgments based on what the outcome was and consider the process instead.

Arguments like “you just won the flag, what are you complaining about?” are purely outcome based.

One team could win the flag twenty years in a row, it doesn’t give the competition body licence to start unfairly making rulings against that team.

FWIW Sydney’s Franklin acquisition that broke no rules yet led to Sydney being barred from trading in players is greater miscarriage of justice than this, but they come from the same place.

 

[Opine]

Are you comfortable with a professional sports organisation operating by that maxim?

Am far more comfortable relying on a maxim that, at the very least, seems to have produced a conscionable outcome, rather than procedural form for the mere sake of form.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Ellis's contract was clearly designed to maximise compensation, just as Vickery's was a few years ago. It was a good try, it worked last time but not this time.
You guys have just won a flag and have effectively used free agency to swap Brandon Ellis for Tom Lynch and pick 39. Yet you whinge.

you think richmond overpaid ellis, to get a good free agency compo pick for him - three/four years later?

 

[Marcel Proust]

Am far more comfortable relying on a maxim that, at the very least, seems to have produced a conscionable outcome, rather than procedural form for the mere sake of form.

yeah, rules, transparency, consistency

bugger that rubbish

lets go with whatever gill farts that day instead

 

[lewdogs]

One has nothing to do with the other.

There's a principle at stake and the integrity of the league as a whole. Wrong is wrong on this issue.
Fact that Richmond has won a flag has nothing to do with anything else.

Richmond have benefited from free agency more than any side. The principle is to keep the competition fair, not that the top sides continue to benefit. Band 1 for Ellis would have been a joke and thankfully the AFL made a stand against it.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Just because the GC have to pay up big to get a player it doesn't mean Richmond should continue to benefit.

Richmond have benefited from free agency more than any side. The principle is to keep the competition fair, not that the top sides continue to benefit. Band 1 for Ellis would have been a joke and thankfully the AFL made a stand against it.

band 2

 

[Opine]

you think richmond overpaid ellis, to get a good free agency compo pick for him - four years later?

Regardless of what Richmond paid Ellis, it’s the rest of the comp that funds the compensation received. That compensation should reflect the value which the general competition would likely puts on Ellis. In this case the outcome feels about right; if not marginally in Richmonds favour.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Regardless of what Richmond paid Ellis, it’s the rest of the comp that funds the compensation received. That compensation should reflect the value which the general competition would likely puts on Ellis. In this case the outcome feels about right; if not marginally in Richmonds favour.

so why did you type "Ellis's contract was clearly designed to maximise compensation" - richmond were probable struggling to fill its min cap space back then and hence overpaying the squib. not looking at compo picks several years down the track if he was to leave via FA

i dont largely disagree with your points, i am aware that Lynch is worth about 50 draft picks.

the main point is the amateur and unprofessional manner in which the game is run by the admin. I am not surprised by the afl shafted the rules to try and have an anti equalization policy in regards to the premiers - however those that are wanting decency and fairness should be concerned.

as it sits im pretty comfortable with 2/3 flags and $4 according to the bookies for next season

 

[Lore]

Because Richmond finished first on the ladder this year, they are necessarily the last pick in every round anyway. That means that Band 1 and 2 compensation has the same outcome for them, as do Band 3 and 4.

Thought it would be interesting to have a look back at what has counted in each band over the years, although I'm guessing the formula and compensation system has changed a bit since 2012 so some of the older examples might not be as relevant (can't verify it atm).

Band 1 Compensation = 1st round, which is directly after the club's original pick in the first round. For Richmond, their first pick is 18, so the compensation would have been pick 19 (or 20, given the other priority picks have pushed it all down a pick).

Lynch to Richmond (2018)
Frawley to Hawthorn (2014)
Thomas to Carlton (2013)
Franklin to Hawthorn (2013)
Goddard to Essendon (2012)

Band 2 Compensation = end of 1st round, which is directly after the completion of the first round of the draft. The first round is 18 picks long, so the compensation would also have been pick 19 (or 20, given the other priority picks have pushed it all down a pick).

Lycett to Port Adelaide (2018)
Motlop to Port Adelaide (2017)
Rockliff to Port Adelaide (2017)

Band 3 Compensation = 2nd round, which is directly after the club's original pick in the second round. For Richmond this was originally pick 36, which would've made the compensation pick 37 (with other priority/compensation picks added, this is now pick 39).

Ellis to Gold Coast (2019)
Dahlhaus to Geelong (2018)
Jackson Trengove to Western Bulldogs (2017)
Vickery to Hawthorn (2016)
Wells to Collingwood (2016)
Mayne to Collingwood (2016)
S.Selwood to Geelong (2015)
Higgins to North Melbourne (2014)
Malceski to Gold Coast (2014)
Sylvia to Fremantle (2013)
Dal Santo to North Melbourne (2013)
Pearce to Fremantle (2012)
Chaplin to Richmond (2012)

Band 4 Compensation = end of 2nd round, which is directly after the completion of the second round of the draft. ´Each round is 18 picks long, so this pick would originally have been straight after pick 36, i.e. pick 37 (with other priority/compensation picks added, this is now pick 39).

Conca to Fremantle (2018)
Leuenberger to Essendon (2015)
Suckling to Western Bulldogs (2015)

Band 5 Compensation = 3rd round, which is directly after the club's original pick in teh third round. For Richmond, this was originally pick 54, so the compensation would've been pick 55 (or pick 58 now with three other priority/compensation picks added in ahead of it).

Ellis-Yolmen to Brisbane (2019)
Fasolo to Carlton (2018)
Lynch to Collingwood (2012)
Moloney to Brisbane (2012)
Rivers to Geelong (2012)
Young to Collingwood (2012)

 

[Opine]

so why did you type "Ellis's contract was clearly designed to maximise compensation" - richmond were probable struggling to fill its min cap space back then and hence overpaying the squib. not looking at compo picks several years down the track if he was to leave via FA

i dont largely disagree with your points, i am aware that Lynch is worth about 50 draft picks.

the main point is the amateur and unprofessional manner in which the game is run by the admin. I am not surprised by the afl shafted the rules to try and have an anti equalization policy in regards to the premiers - however those that are wanting decency and fairness should be concerned.

as it sits im pretty comfortable with 2/3 flags and $4 according to the bookies for next season

I didn't type that; you did.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Because Richmond finished first on the ladder this year, they are necessarily the last pick in every round anyway. That means that Band 1 and 2 compensation has the same outcome for them, as do Band 3 and 4.

Thought it would be interesting to have a look back at what has counted in each band over the years, although I'm guessing the formula and compensation system has changed a bit since 2012 so some of the older examples might not be as relevant (can't verify it atm).

Band 1 Compensation = 1st round, which is directly after the club's original pick in the first round. For Richmond, their first pick is 18, so the compensation would have been pick 19 (or 20, given the other priority picks have pushed it all down a pick).

Lynch to Richmond (2018)
Frawley to Hawthorn (2014)
Thomas to Carlton (2013)
Franklin to Hawthorn (2013)
Goddard to Essendon (2012)

Band 2 Compensation = end of 1st round, which is directly after the completion of the first round of the draft. The first round is 18 picks long, so the compensation would also have been pick 19 (or 20, given the other priority picks have pushed it all down a pick).

Lycett to Port Adelaide (2018)
Motlop to Port Adelaide (2017)
Rockliff to Port Adelaide (2017)

Band 3 Compensation = 2nd round, which is directly after the club's original pick in the second round. For Richmond this was originally pick 36, which would've made the compensation pick 37 (with other priority/compensation picks added, this is now pick 39).

Ellis to Gold Coast (2019)
Dahlhaus to Geelong (2018)
Jackson Trengove to Western Bulldogs (2017)
Vickery to Hawthorn (2016)
Wells to Collingwood (2016)
Mayne to Collingwood (2016)
S.Selwood to Geelong (2015)
Higgins to North Melbourne (2014)
Malceski to Gold Coast (2014)
Sylvia to Fremantle (2013)
Dal Santo to North Melbourne (2013)
Pearce to Fremantle (2012)
Chaplin to Richmond (2012)

Band 4 Compensation = end of 2nd round, which is directly after the completion of the second round of the draft. ´Each round is 18 picks long, so this pick would originally have been straight after pick 36, i.e. pick 37 (with other priority/compensation picks added, this is now pick 39).

Conca to Fremantle (2018)
Leuenberger to Essendon (2015)
Suckling to Western Bulldogs (2015)

Band 5 Compensation = 3rd round, which is directly after the club's original pick in teh third round. For Richmond, this was originally pick 54, so the compensation would've been pick 55 (or pick 58 now with three other priority/compensation picks added in ahead of it).

Ellis-Yolmen to Brisbane (2019)
Fasolo to Carlton (2018)
Lynch to Collingwood (2012)
Moloney to Brisbane (2012)
Rivers to Geelong (2012)
Young to Collingwood (2012)

Did Hawthorn get any compo for Hodge after he 'retired' and joined Brisbane as a F/A ?
That always seemed like an odd grey area to me.

 

[perplexed]

you think richmond overpaid ellis, to get a good free agency compo pick for him - three/four years later?

I was referring to his GC contract, as that is the one on which the compensation is based.