Burgoyne nominates Hawthorn? (part II)

[itisnt2hard]

The logic is #### you Hawthorn.. game over!

Highly likely this will be done in a three way trade, so here is the best outcome for all.
Hawthorn will not get Jolly so they need to be on the pace for a future ruckman.
Carlton arent bluffing and will trade Fev (as they have tried to before) so they need a future forward.
Port needs runners and also if the right player becomes available a future ruckman as well.
So here goes,
Burgoyne to hawthorn,
Dowler to carlton,
Either Hampsen or Walker to port,
throw in whatever mid to late picks you like as the N/Draft will be all over after round 5.
Love the port Football club but getting the Melbourne Kids to play there at the moment really is a huge issue. Still it is worth a shot as the mold would suit.

 

[PortMacPower]

Burgoyne nominated 3 clubs - Hawks, Bombers and Dees, with Hawks his preferred choice.

It clearly isn't working out with them, and time is running out. So I think it's time to close the door on them altogether, refuse to deal with them, and start talking solely with Essendon and Melbourne about Shaun.

Too bad, so sad. You had your chance. I think this is the only way to go now.

Who knows, maybe Shaun will even answer his phone if we do that, or the Hawks might put in a serious offer.

 

[itisnt2hard]

Burgoyne nominated 3 clubs - Hawks, Bombers and Dees, with Hawks his preferred choice.

It clearly isn't working out with them, and time is running out. So I think it's time to close the door on them altogether, refuse to deal with them, and start talking solely with Essendon and Melbourne about Shaun.

Too bad, so sad. You had your chance. I think this is the only way to go now.

Who knows, maybe Shaun will even answer his phone if we do that, or the Hawks might put in a serious offer.

Then Shaun gets the shits, walks off into the draft abis, puts an unreasonable price on his head then waits for Hawthorns first pick. Port gets nothing, Shaun has an excuse for his actions Hawthorn plead they tried to strike a deal and,,,, and ,,,,, and,,,, who looses out of all this?Port.

 

[elsler]

so this untouchables list does anyone have an enigma machine so we can decode it ????

 

[itisnt2hard]

Most players start out on the untouchable list unless they have requested to be traded. But as the negotiations go on and the web starts to unwind all players and i mean all players can find themselves all of a sudden on the table, just ask Browny he found out yesterday. So to answer your question such a list does not exist, clubs do have a happy to trade list though.

 

[PortMacPower]

Then Shaun gets the shits, walks off into the draft abis, puts an unreasonable price on his head then waits for Hawthorns first pick. Port gets nothing, Shaun has an excuse for his actions Hawthorn plead they tried to strike a deal and,,,, and ,,,,, and,,,, who looses out of all this?Port.

That's why we would be negotiating with one of his 3 preferred clubs. If we can organise something with Essendon, then get Matty Knights, Hirdy or someone like that to sweet talk Shaun I'm sure it could work out fine.

Maybe Shaun is now questioning how much the Hawks really want him, or if the Hawks fans will resent him for all they have to give up to get him.....

Food for thought.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Then Shaun gets the shits, walks off into the draft abis, puts an unreasonable price on his head then waits for Hawthorns first pick. Port gets nothing, Shaun has an excuse for his actions Hawthorn plead they tried to strike a deal and,,,, and ,,,,, and,,,, who looses out of all this?Port.

Not if Fremantle intervene. He sticks himself in the ND then for Pick 4 Freo get Shaun and he is pissed off and the Hawks don't get a player they expect to help them win a flag. Freo have plenty of cap room, plenty of kids and a bit of experience in the guts helps. We miss out but hey we picked up Carr for nothing so the footy gods dishing out some karma.

West Coast have pick 7 and they really haven't replaced Judd yet.

Simple, he tells his manager to get a deal done with Hawthorn tomorrow by midday or we will let him run to the draft. He might enjoy those 4 hour flights every week.

 

[itisnt2hard]

Dinner time is finished. This trade has been well orchastrated for some time and Hawthorn arent going away with out their desert. They are ruthless at the moment and wont stop until they have acheived their mission. Alot of their up and coming kids have been offered one year contracts only with very little negotiation. Were a happy team at hawthorn remains to be seen in the preceeding years to come.

 

[Janus]

People who think he'll simply waltz into the Hawks dressing room with Pick 9 if a trade isn't done are forgetting one thing - the Hawks would be close to the salary cap. This is the whole reason why Shaun is willing to be paid 450k by them, when he could have gotten more money elsewhere.

If he nominates in the draft and puts a high price tag on his head, the Hawks can't afford him. And if he nominates a lower price (450k), other clubs might think it's too good a deal to pass up. Four years out of a genuine blue-chip midfielder while your kids develop and learn might be worth a punt.

Which is why the threat of ND, while a risk, isn't the Sword of Damocles that people make it out to be.

If I was Rohde, I'd be talking to Essendon and offer the following - if a deal with Hawthorn isn't made by a deadline (say 10am Friday), we'll give you Pick 8 for Nash + Pick 10...on the proviso you recruit Burgoyne with it. So it ends up being a trade of Burgoyne for Pick 10 + Nash. Essendon wins (gets Burgoyne, and still has a first round pick), we win (morally if not in reality), and both Hawks and Burgoyne get screwed.

Yeah, we end up with dross, but we would if we completed a deal with the Hawks, and both Shaun and Hawthorn don't get their way.

 

[Rioli magic]

If I was Rohde, I'd be talking to Essendon and offer the following - if a deal with Hawthorn isn't made by a deadline (say 10am Friday), we'll give you Pick 8 for Nash + Pick 10...on the proviso you recruit Burgoyne with it. So it ends up being a trade of Burgoyne for Pick 10 + Nash. Essendon wins (gets Burgoyne, and still has a first round pick), we win (morally if not in reality), and both Hawks and Burgoyne get screwed.

Yeah, we end up with dross, but we would if we completed a deal with the Hawks, and both Shaun and Hawthorn don't get their way.

Yeah and hope like hell SB doesn't go to the PSD and walk into Melbourne, and have Essendon laugh away.

 

[wholelottafun]

LOL...Hawthorn are nowhere near their salary cap limit

Crawford left & was replaced by a junior & he wasn't on the veterans list, Dew has retired, Boyle has retired & Campbell has retired...and we paid only 92.5% of our cap last year!!

 

[Portia]

Has anyone noticed that its basically only Hawthorn fans that appear to be so concerned about how Port will cope if we don't trade Shaun to them?

**** Hawthorn.

 

[itisnt2hard]

People who think he'll simply waltz into the Hawks dressing room with Pick 9 if a trade isn't done are forgetting one thing - the Hawks would be close to the salary cap. This is the whole reason why Shaun is willing to be paid 450k by them, when he could have gotten more money elsewhere.

If he nominates in the draft and puts a high price tag on his head, the Hawks can't afford him. And if he nominates a lower price (450k), other clubs might think it's too good a deal to pass up. Four years out of a genuine blue-chip midfielder while your kids develop and learn might be worth a punt.

Which is why the threat of ND, while a risk, isn't the Sword of Damocles that people make it out to be.

If I was Rohde, I'd be talking to Essendon and offer the following - if a deal with Hawthorn isn't made by a deadline (say 10am Friday), we'll give you Pick 8 for Nash + Pick 10...on the proviso you recruit Burgoyne with it. So it ends up being a trade of Burgoyne for Pick 10 + Nash. Essendon wins (gets Burgoyne, and still has a first round pick), we win (morally if not in reality), and both Hawks and Burgoyne get screwed.

Yeah, we end up with dross, but we would if we completed a deal with the Hawks, and both Shaun and Hawthorn don't get their way.

The price he gives other clubs for his services and the price he will go to Hawthorn for will differ, (other clubs high, Hawthorn as agreed). If any other clubs threaten to take him it is only a matter of saying thanks but no thanks i dont want to play for your club. Get real guys when the 31st of this month comes around Shaun will be a free agent. Understand the position that Rhode is in and as i stated before you cant be to choosy on what you receive for something that you know longer own. It is not a trade (soon to be uncontracted) it is an act of good faith between all parties. For those that say let him walk for nothing, get serious as the Hawks know which ever way it goes they will get him.

 

[Portia]

The price he gives other clubs for his services and the price he will go to Hawthorn for will differ, (other clubs high, Hawthorn as agreed).

If he goes in the draft, he has to name his price up front.

You act very much like an insider, but if you don't know that little fact, you don't know much at all.

 

[PAUR]

I'm happy for him to go into the ND if Burgoyne/Hawthorn want to dictate terms too much "Pick 9 or nothing..." <-- where were all those people yesterday when the Hawks board was crying because Brown was offered as trade bait?

Thanks but no thanks I would say to pick 9. Enjoy the Dees, Swans, Dockers, W/C, PA or maybe you will end up at the Hawks. Good luck playing spin the bottle

 

[itisnt2hard]

If he goes in the draft, he has to name his price up front.

You act very much like an insider, but if you don't know that little fact, you don't know much at all.

Yes you are right Pothos.
but that is a base salary only. and a player can request many and varied clauses/extras in his contract. This plus a mere sorry i dont want to play for you is enough as you saw in todays deal that fell through. Contracts are very individual, sorry if you think i come across as a smart arse that is not my intention, but yes i do know abit and i do love port.

 

[Portia]

Yes you are right Pothos.
but that is a base salary only.

That is all he has the right to demand, however. Thats why he has to announce his salary in advance. Draftees don't have the same rights as players traded with clubs willing.

and a player can request many and varied clauses/extras in his contract. This plus a mere sorry i dont want to play for you is enough as you saw in todays deal that fell through.

That was a contracted player, and contracted players have definite rights in that regard.

In this scenario, Shaun would be an uncontracted player going into the national draft - in that world, such a comment is known as `draft tampering', which can see him deregistered and unable to play for anyone, for any money.

 

[SA HAWK]

I'm happy for him to go into the ND if Burgoyne/Hawthorn want to dictate terms too much "Pick 9 or nothing..." <-- where were all those people yesterday when the Hawks board was crying because Brown was offered as trade bait?

Thanks but no thanks I would say to pick 9. Enjoy the Dees, Swans, Dockers, W/C, PA or maybe you will end up at the Hawks. Good luck playing spin the bottle

That would be fair enough.

He is worth pick 9 + a player just not worth pick 9 + the players you have been demanding as part of the deal.

 

[wapower]

**** Hawthorn.

Best comment of the year.

 

[PortMacPower]

Its really about egos now. Neither side wants to back down. Port won't back down from 9 + Hawks regular 22 player, and Kennett said he won't give up premiership players.

It could get ugly when it doesn't have to be.

Pick 9 is good. The player we get on top of that is the key - but think about this: Williams is prepared to trade for a guy like Schulz. So if he can see the upside in Schulz and potential there, why can't he see the (IMO) higher potential of Dowler? Surely if push came to shove we could of got 9 plus Dowler???

Also, Williams wrote an article or was quoted prior to trade week comparing this deal to the Chris Judd deal. So if it is that important why is he in the US??? I'm sure Worsfold wasn't overseas when the Judd trade was going on.....

I just hope we aren't all still guessing what will happen tomorrow night!!! Hopefully both sides can get there egos in check and figure out a trade tomorrow.

Pick 9 + plus a player with potential is better than nothing any day of the week.

Pick 8 + 9 = a brighter future.

The extra player = another option for the short term at least, and short term improvement at least.

Make the trade and move on!

I think most Port fans would be happier to build for the future than walk away with nothing. When it was Nick Stevens we had the depth and quality in our list to make a statement and say f... you and walk away with nothing. We certainly don't have that depth now.

 

[Janus]

That would be fair enough.

He is worth pick 9 + a player just not worth pick 9 + the players you have been demanding as part of the deal.

It is quite possible that the Hawks have noone else we are interested in. Remember that Choco would have interviewed several of these 'potential' superstars like Thorp and Dowler at draftcamp...and would have formed an opinion as to what they could offer the club.

Which is why we'll be getting the best draft pick that the Hawks can now package along with Pick 9. If it's Pick 16, great. If not, a second rounder will do.

 

[itisnt2hard]

That is all he has the right to demand, however. Thats why he has to announce his salary in advance. Draftees don't have the same rights as players traded with clubs willing.

That was a contracted player, and contracted players have definite rights in that regard.

In this scenario, Shaun would be an uncontracted player going into the national draft - in that world, such a comment is known as `draft tampering', which can see him deregistered and unable to play for anyone, for any money.

Think outside the square. There is plenty of money to be made outside the club salary . EG selling socks, Jocks, even packing boxes if you like. Face players make alot more money on top of their wage during their football season. If that was to happen could you call that tampering. Very much like the rule in trading that you cant (on Trade) does that stop three or four clubs getting together to nut out who goes where so as they all get their end result. Cheating on you tax return is also unlawfull, i bet none of us do that either.

 

[mick]

The price he gives other clubs for his services and the price he will go to Hawthorn for will differ, (other clubs high, Hawthorn as agreed). If any other clubs threaten to take him it is only a matter of saying thanks but no thanks i dont want to play for your club. Get real guys when the 31st of this month comes around Shaun will be a free agent. Understand the position that Rhode is in and as i stated before you cant be to choosy on what you receive for something that you know longer own. It is not a trade (soon to be uncontracted) it is an act of good faith between all parties. For those that say let him walk for nothing, get serious as the Hawks know which ever way it goes they will get him.

As much as I wish that were true, it isn't.

The price Shaun nominates on his ND conditions will be allocated to the TPP of the team that drafts him.

Any variances to this contract that surpass Shaun's nominated salary also have to be included in the teams TPP.

Hawthorn may "renegotiate" a contract with Shaun after he has been drafted, but the greater of his nominated salary or renegotiated salary will count towards the salary cap.


What Hawthorn cannot do is pay Burgoyne a different amount than any of the teams that precede them is the draft order for TPP purposes. That would be deemed as draft tampering.

If Shaun enters the National draft, he does so on the proviso that he is willing to play for any team that drafts him, if he says

"thanks but no thanks i dont want to play for your club"

then that would also be deemed as "draft tampering."

That being said, I am relatively confident that Shaun would make it through to Hawthorn's pick, as I am confident that Hawthorn has at least $750K spare in it's salary cap.

The best result for Hawthorn would be to pick him up in the ND so threatening to send him there is a bit silly. I would hate to see this happen, unless Rhode continues to publicly piss and moan about how Hawthorn does business. I would far rather Port be compensated with at least pick 9.

 

[FishingRick04]

Also, Williams wrote an article or was quoted prior to trade week comparing this deal to the Chris Judd deal. So if it is that important why is he in the US??? I'm sure Worsfold wasn't overseas when the Judd trade was going on.....

Sorry but I think Choco is an easy target at the moment and who really cares, his role may not require him to be here. remember with his contract negotiations he had requirements for additional training and perhaps his only time to go is now? Perhaps if he stayed people would complain he's micro managing and being too controlling. I am sure he has requested what he expects, perhaps Laidley is being invloved also? I think this Choco and Rhode bashing is getting tiresome and we need to accept they are incharge for another season and deal with it!

 

[Steven Tyler]

Its really about egos now. Neither side wants to back down. Port won't back down from 9 + Hawks regular 22 player, and Kennett said he won't give up premiership players.

It could get ugly when it doesn't have to be.

Pick 9 is good. The player we get on top of that is the key - but think about this: Williams is prepared to trade for a guy like Schulz. So if he can see the upside in Schulz and potential there, why can't he see the (IMO) higher potential of Dowler? Surely if push came to shove we could of got 9 plus Dowler???

Also, Williams wrote an article or was quoted prior to trade week comparing this deal to the Chris Judd deal. So if it is that important why is he in the US??? I'm sure Worsfold wasn't overseas when the Judd trade was going on.....

I just hope we aren't all still guessing what will happen tomorrow night!!! Hopefully both sides can get there egos in check and figure out a trade tomorrow.

Pick 9 + plus a player with potential is better than nothing any day of the week.

Pick 8 + 9 = a brighter future.

The extra player = another option for the short term at least, and short term improvement at least.

Make the trade and move on!

I think most Port fans would be happier to build for the future than walk away with nothing. When it was Nick Stevens we had the depth and quality in our list to make a statement and say f... you and walk away with nothing. We certainly don't have that depth now.

Fantastic post! I think in the end you'll get pick 9 and a second rounder we get by trading Kennedy to Swans or Williams to Bombers!
In reference to Dowler, I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, but apparently you asked about him and were told no. Not sure why, I personally dont see him as a third tall, needs to be numero uno as a forward, and that wont happen with Buddy and Roughy next to him.
Hopefully this all gets done soon, getting tired of all the crap!
Best of luck next year BTW