Burgoyne nominates Hawthorn? (part II)

[TheSuper6of06]

seriously, **** hawthorn. Trade with Essendon or let that prick go to melbourne and stay wooden spooners for another 5 years. I'd rather get nothing then get bent over by any club.

According to Rucci's article the Bombers are still keen.

Paul Hamilton, Essendon's football operation chief:

"We still think Hawthorn will get the deal done but if they can't we are a fallback position for Shaun"

"We have said all along that we would like Shaun at our club. For now, we'll stay in the background."

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26181006-12428,00.html

But it sounds like we'll be spending Thursday in continued negotiations with the Hawks

And as Hawthorn last night was preparing a new list of options for the Burgoyne trade, Port football operations Peter Rohde said: "This time we want the names in writing."

From an Essendon perspective - they could potentially procure both Shaun and Williams (of Hawthorn) in straight trades without having to be involved as a third party to help the Hawks procure Burgoyne themselves.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

so this untouchables list does anyone have an enigma machine so we can decode it ????

The Herald Sun claims this is the list:

link

The Power would not confirm that list, but the Herald Sun can confirm the untouchables are captain Sam Mitchell, vice captain Luke Hodge, Lance Franklin, Jarryd Roughead, Cyril Rioli, Jordan Lewis, Grant Birchall and Ryan Schoenmakers.

link

 

[itisnt2hard]

As much as I wish that were true, it isn't.

The price Shaun nominates on his ND conditions will be allocated to the TPP of the team that drafts him.

Any variances to this contract that surpass Shaun's nominated salary also have to be included in the teams TPP.

Hawthorn may "renegotiate" a contract with Shaun after he has been drafted, but the greater of his nominated salary or renegotiated salary will count towards the salary cap.


What Hawthorn cannot do is pay Burgoyne a different amount than any of the teams that precede them is the draft order for TPP purposes. That would be deemed as draft tampering.

If Shaun enters the National draft, he does so on the proviso that he is willing to play for any team that drafts him, if he says then that would also be deemed as "draft tampering."

That being said, I am relatively confident that Shaun would make it through to Hawthorn's pick, as I am confident that Hawthorn has at least $750K spare in it's salary cap.

The best result for Hawthorn would be to pick him up in the ND so threatening to send him there is a bit silly. I would hate to see this happen, unless Rhode continues to publicly piss and moan about how Hawthorn does business. I would far rather Port be compensated with at least pick 9.

Tampering does not apply Mick as the regulation merely gives you a date of how before that date and after that date you can conduct your negotiations. The burgoyne camp have already said no to the other clubs(whilst under contract same as browny did yesterday). It is also unlawfull for another club to approach a player who is contracted but if they happen to meet in a cafe and have an off the cuff chat, well that is a different story to. It is not uncommon for a player to vary the contract amount depending on which club it is, eg distance from where they wish to live, Kids schooling is a big one as well as outside marketing opportunities.
No club will spend the time and money on chasing a player that has already told them they dont wish to play for them.

 

[Relativity]

Yes you are right Pothos.
but that is a base salary only. and a player can request many and varied clauses/extras in his contract. This plus a mere sorry i dont want to play for you is enough as you saw in todays deal that fell through. Contracts are very individual, sorry if you think i come across as a smart arse that is not my intention, but yes i do know abit and i do love port.

Were a happy team at hawthorn remains to be seen in the preceeding years to come.

You certainly know your oxymorons.

 

[MrMeaner]

I think we should be negotiating with the teams before Hawthorn in the ND. We don't need a player or a pick from them. They just have to come out and say that they would draft Shaun if he's available.

I think Freo would be the best choice. That should really put the wind up him.

We need to do something to get some leverage.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

We go from #9 and Campbell to #9 and #26?

 

[sog35]

We go from #9 and Campbell to #9 and #26?

Hawks played the last 24 hours well. Let's see what happens today.

 

[FishingRick04]

I would easily do a st8 swap for pick 6 or below, nice and easy that way. One pick one player.

I would just go to any of those clubs with that pick and say anyone want to st8 swap Shaun for your first pick? Any say yes, ok you have a deal!

 

[EssendonPride]

I would easily do a st8 swap for pick 6 or below, nice and easy that way. One pick one player.

I would just go to any of those clubs with that pick and say anyone want to st8 swap Shaun for your first pick? Any say yes, ok you have a deal!

The only problems being.
1. The clubs with the first 6 picks probably wouldn't benefit enough from having him.
2. He'd have to agree to go to whichever team, which he wouldn't.

Sooner this deals done the better. Hopefully the hawks work out something you guys will accept, don't want him if it involves 10+16.

 

[elsler]

would you have done 10+lovett ???

 

[elsler]

Hawks played the last 24 hours well. Let's see what happens today.

you got it they are playing games

 

[FishingRick04]

The only problems being.
1. The clubs with the first 6 picks probably wouldn't benefit enough from having him.
2. He'd have to agree to go to whichever team, which he wouldn't.

Sooner this deals done the better. Hopefully the hawks work out something you guys will accept, don't want him if it involves 10+16.

North, Richmond, Melb wouldn't?

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26166000-5018851,00.html

The Demons, understood to be $500,000 under their minimum payment requirements, are monitoring the Shaun Burgoyne saga, as well as dealings on back-up Geelong ruckman Shane Mumford.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26166000-5018851,00.html

 

[morell]

Whatever Hawthorn get for Kennedy and McGlynn from Sydney (picks #6, #28) or what Essendon give (picks #10, #16, #26) for Williams.

I can see some or all of those draft picks being bundled with #9 for Shaun.

 

[EssendonPride]

would you have done 10+lovett ???

Probably - When I thought we'd be lucky to get a late 2nd rounder.

I see what you're saying, but giving up 16 would just be undoing our good work earlier in the week.

Furthermore, he doesn't want to play with us, I don't want him.

 

[EssendonPride]

North, Richmond, Melb wouldn't?

Nope. None of them will be pushing for a flag in the next 3 years.

 

[sog35]

you got it they are playing games

Not sure I'd describe it as games, more stretching it out to the last minute to get the best possible deal for their club.

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

Scott Heinrich from Fox Sports is tipping Schoenmakers will be part of the trade, despite him being one of the eight players named 'off limits.'

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

SEN says: that 3 way trade where we get #9 and #26.

Fox Sports says: Schoenmakers + #9

Dermott says: Straight swap for Lewis

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Powerade 08]

SEN says: that 3 way trade where we get #9 and #26.

Fox Sports says: Schoenmakers + #9

Dermott says: Straight swap for Lewis

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The 3 way is very likely.

Schoenmakers + 9? lol...

 

[Forzaport]

I'd like the Dermott trade the best.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

To clarify the cap situation.

From 2005 until 2007 we were well under 92.5%, but prepaid contracts to get us up to 92.5% (ie 2 yr 200+200 contracts, became 2yr 300+100 contracts, etc).

In 2007 we had the finals bonus payments (outside of normal cap somehow), but paid 92.5% (genuinely) and used the rest (7.5%) for prepayments.
In 2008, we were at 92.5% for the season, The balance (7.5%) was used in pre-payments for 2009 contracts.
In 2009 we were at 92.5% but winning the premiership included a bonus to all players (not sure if 22 or whole squad) which took us to 94%. The remaining 6% was used in prepayments.

Is that your best guess or is that what the club has told you/members what they are doing?

Front end loading contracts with pre payments might have worked well when you were struggling to break even and Dicker would pull his cheque book out and balance the books, in the 2003-06 period. But if you keep making $4m profits and with the GCFC and GWS team coming in, then front ending with prepayments will have to stop soon, and its going to bite you in the bum, just like so many back ended contracts have hit other teams.

I don't for a second believe we're 20% (2007+2008+2009 prepayments accumulated) under the cap, so I think we have 6% in room coming into 2010. From your figure of 7.95m, that's about 450k.

Croad has dropped from 400k to 100k (plus veteran if needed) = 750k.
Boyle retired = 900k
Dew retired = 1200k (you don't think he unretired for a rookie salary do you? - backended, like the man himself )
Campbell retired = 1500k

Gibson 300 = 1200k
Burgoyne 700 (ND) = 500k OR Burgoyne 450 (trade) = 750k
? = 0k

Now you know your team a lot better than me, but I think you have exaggerated a few salaries Especially Boyle, Dew and Campbell. The real question is how much of the salaries you have mentioned above are base payments ie fixed and how much are variable. Only the club, the players and their managers know. A $300k media figure is all components. How many games did Doyle play in 2009? Also if they were prepaid then that total amount has to be adjusted for the prepayment as you are not going to give up the gross amount in 2010.

You need to have a good look at the table on page 57 of AFL's 2008 annual report re Total Player Earnings. It includes salary cap amounts ie Total Player Payments and non cap amounts. Your players earned a $500k bonus as part of the AFL $1m premiership prizemoney which is in these amounts as I'm sure are other club bonuses. Look at the $100k bands and divide them by 16 to get an idea of how many players you might have in each band.

The media reported on the $500k-$600k band to $1m+ bands and listed who they thought the 28 players in those 6 top bands were. You had Hodge and Mitchell in the $500-$600k band. Work your way back thru those bands and you will see that you have probably exaggerated what your 3 retiring players would have received in 2009 given, You didn't have all those 2008 bonuses in 2009 and the salary cap amount basically went up by inflation.

http://www.afl.com.au/portals/0/afl_docs/afl_hq/annual_reports/2008/p48-57-Football_Operations.pdf

Jolly was just out of our range, in that he'd force us to lower Burgoyne's nominated salary, and we'd be forced to trade - i don't think we have enough carrots to land both in trade week.

As it is, we're comfortable with Burgoyne at 700 (or 800 if need be) for 1 yr. We'll then negotiate it so he gets 700/800 in year 1, and then 300 in years 2 and 3. (getting him his 450k per year average).

Only if your sums are close to reality, otherwise you wont be able to offer $700k.

Sydney reportedly have cap room to accomodate Fev's salary - so if they don't land him (brisbane?) they could be a serious ND threat.

You would too if you had another $700k cost of living to play with.

I wonder if Port have burnt too many bridges with SB though (and according to the conspiracy theorists belief played into Hawthorn's hands) and he'll go to ND.

Nah I think he is a bit of a sook. If he had any real fortitude he would do a Judd, or what Carr did when he left straight after winning the flag, and tell the Hawks to stop ****ing around and offer a fair deal up front and stop playing games.

 

[morell]

^^ This is why you dont argue with Russ.

 

[FishingRick04]

Scott Heinrich from Fox Sports is tipping Schoenmakers will be part of the trade, despite him being one of the eight players named 'off limits.'

Well surely he would like to come home and he would be a nice pick up, I would not complain about that deal at all.

Personally I woudl rather Shaun but I could live with that and accept we got a good deal.

 

[PortBrillance]

I dont want a 3 way (Never thought I'd say that I'm my life!) But we would be getting screwed over (haha) if we went from pick 9 and CB to pick 26. 26 is useless, Good luck SB you ****head, hope you have fun at Melbourne being bottem of the ladder for the next 5 years and getting nowhere in life. Put him in the PSD!