Burgoyne nominates Hawthorn? (part II)

[ClintEastwood]

Just had a little excursion to the Hawks board. Jesus there are a lot of whinging, whining, small-minded individuals over there.

Seriously, I've never had anything against Hawks fans previous to this, but there is so much ill-informed, ignorant, spiteful comment going on over there.

 

[PortBrillance]

Just had a little excursion to the Hawks board. Jesus there are a lot of whinging, whining, small-minded individuals over there.

Seriously, I've never had anything against Hawks fans previous to this, but there is so much ill-informed, ignorant, spiteful comment going on over there.

crows fans much ey? Amazing how pathetic hawks fans are

 

[CaptainHodgey]

Can we really help it if we can't convince our players to come to PA?
We should have dealt in draft picks in the first place.

Also most of us wouldn't trade Jordan Lewis or Ryan Schoenmakers in a 1 to 1 trade with SB, let alone with pick 9. Thats how much we rate him on the Hawthorn Board.

For once I agree with you guys, put SB in the PSD or ND and let us use our pick 9 in peace and quiet.

thanks.

 

[PhoenixPower]

Can we really help it if we can't convince our players to come to PA?
We should have dealt in draft picks in the first place.

Also most of us wouldn't trade Jordan Lewis or Ryan Schoenmakers in a 1 to 1 trade with SB, let alone with pick 9. Thats how much we rate him on the Hawthorn Board.

For once I agree with you guys, put SB in the PSD or ND and let us use our pick 9 in peace and quiet.

thanks.

just shows how ignorant most of you are to how good shaun is

seriously, it shows the victoria-centric nature of the media and the fans when they dont know what someone like shaun burgoyne brings to the table

screw them i say

either way he will be traded, it wont get to PSD stage, im virtually assured of this

 

[wapower]

just shows how ignorant most of you are to how good shaun is

seriously, it shows the victoria-centric nature of the media and the fans when they dont know what someone like shaun burgoyne brings to the table

screw them i say

either way he will be traded, it wont get to PSD stage, im virtually assured of this

According to the Vics, Tredrea is a useless hack because of a few showmanlike gestures. Heaven forbid J.Brown did something of the sort.

If our greatest player can't get recognition for his brilliance, what chance does any other player stand?

 

[Back Pocket Rocket]

Did you see our backline this year? We won't trade Schoenmakers. I am over this. Burgoyne can go to the draft

 

[Dookey901]

Did you see our backline this year? We won't trade Schoenmakers. I am over this. Burgoyne can go to the draft

Or to essendon.....

 

[CaptainHodgey]

just shows how ignorant most of you are to how good shaun is

seriously, it shows the victoria-centric nature of the media and the fans when they dont know what someone like shaun burgoyne brings to the table

screw them i say

either way he will be traded, it wont get to PSD stage, im virtually assured of this

it's certainly true many hawks supporters do not rate SB on the level that port supporters, port coaching staff and even our coaching staff do. His knees are as scary as hell too.

but that is not the point, the point is we cant get anyone who wants to come over. We have realised that the only way to do anyting is through draft picks but this has been realised way too late, the day before trade week ends. The only way I can see this happening is if essendon gives us something YOU want for Mark Williams. If that falls through its all over because you sure as well cant convince any hawthorn players to pack up his life and move to PA within 24 hours.

 

[MrMeaner]

Surely if the problem is with Hawthorn convincing a player that we want to come to us and they were so keen to get Burgoyne, they would have sounded out the possible tradees before this week.

 

[CaptainHodgey]

Surely if the problem is with Hawthorn convincing a player that we want to come to us and they were so keen to get Burgoyne, they would have sounded out the possible tradees before this week.

and therein lies the problem I think. If it was truly us that suggested campbell brown without asking him then we are at fault. but some believe it was PA who went direct to him. Who to believe?

 

[Pinepower]

Surely if the problem is with Hawthorn convincing a player that we want to come to us and they were so keen to get Burgoyne, they would have sounded out the possible tradees before this week.

MrMeaner that is how us ordinary folk do things. I thought that it would have been sorted their end before this week and players told.

 

[MrMeaner]

but some believe it was PA who went direct to him. Who to believe?

That's the problem with the semi-public way in which these negotiations take place.

 

[Peck]

lets convince him to go to fremantle and get pick 4 and palmer for him =]

 

[Peck]

we will never accept pick 9 alone.

hawthorn are going to have to offer something good very soon, or otherwise we will take whatever essendon will give us
Lewis straight swap for burgoyne we would seemingly accept, and that is well in hawthorns favour IMO.
Not sure why that deal hasn't been done.. unless i've missed something about lewis looking at port adelaide and saying "don't want."

Hawthorn seem to think that they hold the cards in this trade.

 

[Rioli magic]

I don't think Dermie said straight swap for Lewis, he said SB would give us the same amount of output as Lewis. He also said we should walk away from the deal. Regardless, I just want it to be done with im over it. Hopefully Essendon have something you want, maybe 26 + nash or something and we can move on.

 

[rhysman]

He hasnt said he wants to go to Essendon though. It looks like its either get a deal done with Hawthorn or reject it and send him to PSD. Guess its down to who blinks first. A lot of ego in this negotiation at this stage I think. Sometimes you need to cut your losses and move forward.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

First up thanks for the response Russ - not often someone manages to make it through one of my posts!

Club hasn't told us per se, it's from a combination of a little too much information being given up at a canberra draft function a few years ago, and various reports/tidbits over the last couple of years.

We front-ended initially to get up to 92.5 (I think Demons will do that this year), and then the next couple to use up what cap room we had. Makes sense - if you don't use it, it's gone. You either 'buy' a player, or you use it to pre-pay your senior players on 3 yr contracts.

That was estimate of totals on players. Boyle was on 220k or thereabouts, Dew about the same, and Campbell was on 280k. Rounded for simplicity.

None of those players had prepaid contracts AFAIK. They were reserved for Mitch, Hodge, Franklin, Bateman, Lewis and Williams. I'd guess that Roughead, Sewell, Birchall and Rioli would probably join that group if we could still do it - but I believe players 'real' salary is over the 92.5% (ie without any prepayments).

In terms of average salary, we had 7 between 350 and 450, but none over 450. Croad was one of those 8. Sewell, Mitchell, Hodge, Franklin were in that bracket. Roughead and Lewis I'm guessing are the other two.

Our 'premiership bonus' was on top of the AFL endorsed one and written into all players contracts.

We had room initially to offer Gibson 350 and Burgoyne 750 (1.1million) without losing any players. Since then Campbell (280k) has retired, and we might be using Williams (200+), Kennedy or McGlynn (100k each), and signed Gibson for 280k (essentially what Robbie was on.

I think we offered a fair deal on day 1. Certainly 9 and McGlynn/Thorp/Tuck (think they were the three) is closer to the mark than Lewis/Birchall and 9. Even Ladson/Brown/Williams and 9 is well overs (but getting closer).

The Dowler/Kennedy/McGlynn tier is probably ideal to go with #9 to get it done. Whilst Port are mucking around with ridiculous offers, I think it's just reinforcing my (conspiracy theory only) idea that SB was always going to ND.

Sydney have commited to a kid with #6, Freo are probably the biggest threat of taking an overpaid player who doesn't want to be there....otherwise it's down to Port (8) and Hawks (9).

Given that, Port have to choose between 8 & 9 and paying a player 300k over value that doesn't really want to be there - or #9 and a decent 16-22 player.

With what other trades have gone for this year, #9 is almost spot on the mark. I think the Williams/Burgoyne/Picks deal is fair to all, and could have been completed much earlier in the week, but Port have wasted everyone's time.

(Williams and #24/40 to Essendon, #9 and #16/26 to Port, Burgoyne to Hawks)

Williams = 8 pick downgrade 16>24 or 14 pick 26/40
Burgoyne = #9 and upgrading 24 to 16 or 40 to 26.

 

[wapower]

It's clear as day Hawthorn isn't going to offer a player that we want, especially after Kennett's comments. Mark Williams to Essendon is key in this deal. If the Hawks can prize pick 16 for him then I can see this eventuating.

Port gain - pick 9 and 16
Hawks gain - Shaun Burgoyne
Bombers gain - Mark Williams

Port lose - Shaun Burgoyne
Hawks lose - pick 9 and Mark Williams
Bombers lose - pick 16

 

[FishingRick04]

With what other trades have gone for this year, #9 is almost spot on the mark. I think the Williams/Burgoyne/Picks deal is fair to all, and could have been completed much earlier in the week, but Port have wasted everyone's time.

Give me a break. We want the best deal not the first offer presented. it sounds to me as Hawthorn has been wasting time.

Put yoruselves in our shoes if Mitchell wanted out and all we offered was pick 9 and Mitch Farmer, I am sure you then wouldn't be saying the same thing! Alot of the Hawks supporters would be screaming for pick 1 & 2!

 

[Rioli magic]

It's clear as day Hawthorn isn't going to offer a player that we want, especially after Kennett's comments. Mark Williams to Essendon is key in this deal. If the Hawks can prize pick 16 for him then I can see this eventuating.

Port gain - pick 9 and 16
Hawks gain - Shaun Burgoyne
Bombers gain - Mark Williams

Port lose - Shaun Burgoyne
Hawks lose - pick 9 and Mark Williams
Bombers lose - pick 16

I dont think Essendon will give up 16 for Williams. So far they have offered a 3rd rounder, best outcome probably pick 26.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I think we offered a fair deal on day 1. Certainly 9 and McGlynn/Thorp/Tuck (think they were the three) is closer to the mark than Lewis/Birchall and 9. Even Ladson/Brown/Williams and 9 is well overs (but getting closer).

The Dowler/Kennedy/McGlynn tier is probably ideal to go with #9 to get it done. Whilst Port are mucking around with ridiculous offers, I think it's just reinforcing my (conspiracy theory only) idea that SB was always going to ND.

Sydney have commited to a kid with #6, Freo are probably the biggest threat of taking an overpaid player who doesn't want to be there....otherwise it's down to Port (8) and Hawks (9).

Given that, Port have to choose between 8 & 9 and paying a player 300k over value that doesn't really want to be there - or #9 and a decent 16-22 player.

With what other trades have gone for this year, #9 is almost spot on the mark. I think the Williams/Burgoyne/Picks deal is fair to all, and could have been completed much earlier in the week, but Port have wasted everyone's time.

(Williams and #24/40 to Essendon, #9 and #16/26 to Port, Burgoyne to Hawks)

Williams = 8 pick downgrade 16>24 or 14 pick 26/40
Burgoyne = #9 and upgrading 24 to 16 or 40 to 26.

Do Hawthorn have a standard set of facts they stick to? Their story has been that they do not offer players for trade but they will field enquiries from clubs. This sort of namby-pambying approach might help Hawks staff sleep at night, but it's incredibly counter-productive for other clubs. This tallies with what Rohde said happened wrt Brown. So how can you say what Hawthorn offered on day 1, when Hawthorn's public position is they don't offer anything? Are you making it up as you go along?

How are Port mucking around with ridiculous offers? We were told who was untouchable, tried to recruit a player who was not on that list, and the whole of Glenferrie went into meltdown. Now Port have no idea who is or isn't 'untouchable'. I can understand Rohde's frustration, and the comment in today's Victorian media about how Hawthorn are viewed by the other AFL clubs as trade week spoilers. We might bargain hard, but Stevens aside (and that was 6 years ago) we have a history of getting deals done.

TBH I'm sick of Hawk supporters coming on this board trying to peddle BS about what Port are doing in trade negotiations when they have two fifths of eff all idea. It's time to stick to facts.

 

[Natman]

It's clear as day Hawthorn isn't going to offer a player that we want, especially after Kennett's comments. Mark Williams to Essendon is key in this deal. If the Hawks can prize pick 16 for him then I can see this eventuating.

Port gain - pick 9 and 16
Hawks gain - Shaun Burgoyne
Bombers gain - Mark Williams

Port lose - Shaun Burgoyne
Hawks lose - pick 9 and Mark Williams
Bombers lose - pick 16

That is about our best result now, but has stuffed up any potential use of 9 or 16 for other trades. Based on the time left and with no decision from Williams yet I fear that the following may be the only options:

1) Hawks pick 9 and maybe a list filler
2) No deal and Byegone to the ND
3) Jay Nash and pick 10 for our pick 8

Obviously 2 and 3 go together, with the time now left being our biggest problem.

 

[mick]

Just had a little excursion to the Hawks board. Jesus there are a lot of whinging, whining, small-minded individuals over there.

Seriously, I've never had anything against Hawks fans previous to this, but there is so much ill-informed, ignorant, spiteful comment going on over there.

I think that it can appear that way simply due to the amount of supporters Hawthorn now has. I am sure our ratio of toolbags to decent posters is the same as most clubs, but we have 50K members and the flogs just stand out more than the normals.

FWIW I have been pleasantly surprised by the reasonableness of some Port supporters given the fact that they may be losing a favorite son.

REH, Forzaport, gopower and Ford fairlane in particular stand out as posters your board can be proud of.

 

[Relativity]

TBH I'm sick of Hawk supporters coming on this board trying to peddle BS about what Port are doing in trade negotiations when they have two fifths of eff all idea. It's time to stick to facts.

Save a seat in that boat for me.

 

[Hodges 153!]

Scott Heinrich from Fox Sports is tipping Schoenmakers will be part of the trade, despite him being one of the eight players named 'off limits.'

I heard yesterday that he and his family have been hopeful all week of him being part of the trade.