Oppo Camp Caleb Poulter (Bulldogs MSD 2023)

[sideswipe]

WHE had an aerial presence - that seems to have departed him over the past few years. WHE doesn't take many of those floating pack marks any more - both are outside runners who can run both ways, both are rangy players who are reasonable overhead, both have penetrating left foot kicks, both are capable of kicking 1-2 goals a game, both struggle to impose on the game physically. WHE may have had better forward smarts, not sure that's true anymore - in 11 games Poults has kicked 2.4 and in his last 11 games WHE has kicked 3.1 - key difference, Poults has an up-side, WHE had an up-side

WHE's "aerial presence" followed by a quick recovery is what gave us one of our goals on Sunday.

Yes, it would be nice for him to get the pill a few more times.

 

[RobJD]

WHE's "aerial presence" followed by a quick recovery is what gave us one of our goals on Sunday.

Yes, it would be nice for him to get the pill a few more times.

I wouldn't call dropping marks an aerial presence.

 

[sideswipe]

I wouldn't call dropping marks an aerial presence.

Guess the inverted commas were there for a reason. Call it whatever you like, he converted a marking contest into possession for us which gave us a goal.

 

[RobJD]

Guess the inverted commas were there for a reason. Call it whatever you like, he converted a marking contest into possession for us which gave us a goal.

His "aerial presence" also resulted in a free kick deep in our forward line against us for an un-realistic marking attempt (with a subsequent 50m penalty)

 

[sideswipe]

His "aerial presence" also resulted in a free kick deep in our forward line against us for an un-realistic marking attempt (with a subsequent 50m penalty)

Maybe - and maybe its a good thing that our new forward structure doesn't need him to be as much of an aerial presence? He might even get to 200 games.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I see him as a like for like replacement for WHE - very similar builds and game styles (both left footers too). I see much more upside with Poults than WHE - understand that he seems to have plateaued this year, it was almost a rule in years gone by that players had a tendency to struggle in their 2nd year. His numbers so far are in-line with Josh D and WHE in their first 2 years. My preference would be to let him know that the wing is his in 2023 and give him a good shot at it - if need be, I'd trade/delist WHE

Pretty sure WHE is a natural right footer. He can use the left well though.

 

[RobJD]

Maybe - and maybe its a good thing that our new forward structure doesn't need him to be as much of an aerial presence? He might even get to 200 games.

Agree, and I assume that he provides a quality to the team that may not necessarily translate to disposals etc. Certainly his stats have dropped off since his first year with us and whilst I'd like to see him play many more games, I wonder what we'll regret more in say, four years time - trading a raw Poults or keeping an aging WHE

 

[Mollythedolly]

WHE had an aerial presence - that seems to have departed him over the past few years. WHE doesn't take many of those floating pack marks any more - both are outside runners who can run both ways, both are rangy players who are reasonable overhead, both have penetrating left foot kicks, both are capable of kicking 1-2 goals a game, both struggle to impose on the game physically. WHE may have had better forward smarts, not sure that's true anymore - in 11 games Poults has kicked 2.4 and in his last 11 games WHE has kicked 3.1 - key difference, Poults has an up-side, WHE had an up-side

WHE’s marking is as much about his lead up marking as his pack marks in F50.

2022 - 6th @ Collingwood average marks = 4.19
2021 - 5th = 6.2
2020 - 4th = 4.72
2019 - 2nd = 6.74
2018 - 7th = 5.19
2017 - 4th = 6.5

 

[RobJD]

WHE’s marking is as much about his lead up marking as his pack marks in F50.

2022 - 6th @ Collingwood average marks = 4.19
2021 - 5th = 6.2
2020 - 4th = 4.72
2019 - 2nd = 6.74
2018 - 7th = 5.19
2017 - 4th = 6.5

Poults average marks per game: 4.75

 

[Mollythedolly]

Poults average marks per game: 4.75

Bit misleading really. He gets there off the back of his average 5 marks a game in 2021 (ranked 13th at the club in 2021 v WHE 5th @ 6.2). His 2022 average is only 2.0. Also of interest is his contested marking is about 20% of WHE.

He’s averaging north of 5 a game at VFL so he can get a mark. I just think you’re understating WHE’s marking by putting them on a par. Not even close imho.

 

[RobJD]

Bit misleading really. He gets there off the back of his average 5 marks a game in 2021 (ranked 13th at the club in 2021 v WHE 5th @ 6.2). His 2022 average is only 2.0. Also of interest is his contested marking is about 20% of WHE.

He’s averaging north of 5 a game at VFL so he can get a mark. I just think you’re understating WHE’s marking by putting them on a par. Not even close imho.

Yeah, what do they say about lies, dam lies and statistics? Anyhow, understand your rationale about Poult's average largely based on last year's games (just one game this year doesn't really allow a comparison) - interesting, in the game that Poult's played this year and took just two marks, WHE played too, and guess what, he took just two marks! I'm not suggesting WHE and Poult's are on a par (although stats show there's not that much between them), I'm suggesting that Poult's has much more up-side than WHE - WHE to my eye, is playing on smarts and experience and in years to come, that won't be enough. In the future, I can see Poults developing into a player who can play a similar role to the one that WHE plays now - stats indicate that WHE's contribution to the team is waning - so if it was me, at the end of this year, I'd trade/delist WHE ahead of Poults as I can see Poults delivering more over a longer period than WHE. All with the usual caveats, e.g., what if ADE offered us their first pick for Poults?, What if Poults doesn't want to play for us,....

 

[Mollythedolly]

Yeah, what do they say about lies, dam lies and statistics? Anyhow, understand your rationale about Poult's average largely based on last year's games (just one game this year doesn't really allow a comparison) - interesting, in the game that Poult's played this year and took just two marks, WHE played too, and guess what, he took just two marks! I'm not suggesting WHE and Poult's are on a par (although stats show there's not that much between them), I'm suggesting that Poult's has much more up-side than WHE - WHE to my eye, is playing on smarts and experience and in years to come, that won't be enough. In the future, I can see Poults developing into a player who can play a similar role to the one that WHE plays now - stats indicate that WHE's contribution to the team is waning - so if it was me, at the end of this year, I'd trade/delist WHE ahead of Poults as I can see Poults delivering more over a longer period than WHE. All with the usual caveats, e.g., what if ADE offered us their first pick for Poults?, What if Poults doesn't want to play for us,....

Nah, WHE for mine. Poulter’s a lesser player so whether he’s potentially there longer isn’t relevant if you’re diminishing the quality of the side in the short term to achieve it.

 

[RobJD]

I

Nah, WHE for mine. Poulter’s a lesser player so whether he’s potentially there longer isn’t relevant if you’re diminishing the quality of the side in the short time to achieve it.

If WHE was that important to the side, he's have a contract for next year!

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

I

If WHE was that important to the side, he's have a contract for next year!

Its not that he’s uber important to Collingwood’s future, it’s just that he’s more important than Poulter right now. Poulter is not up to AFL standard for a fourth placed team entering a finals series.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I

If WHE was that important to the side, he's have a contract for next year!

I think senior selection demonstrates where the club currently sees their respective importance to the senior side. Neither are contracted for 2023 so that’s hardly a distinction to hang your hat on. Sidey, DeGoey also not signed for 2023. Jamie Elliott only recently put pen to paper. Contracts will get done when they get done.

 

[TradeDraft]

Starting to look like Poulter might get De-Listed at Collingwood

 

[No SPIN]

Starting to look like Poulter might get De-Listed at Collingwood

Based on what?

 

[Finnishpie]

Starting to look like Poulter might get De-Listed at Collingwood

why? That would be dumb.

 

[domus]

WHE has the potential to win us a final. That's why he stays in the side.

 

[OniAu]

Based on what?

Same people that have Henry shipped off to Geelong and Grundy to dees

 

[TakingThePies]

Starting to look like Poulter might get De-Listed at Collingwood

He'll be traded home.

 

[magpies42]

Starting to look like Poulter might get De-Listed at Collingwood

That won’t happen. Not sure what has happened here, we traded our
future first round pick to get him…he showed a lot in his first year he will come good if he’s still motivated.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

That won’t happen. Not sure what has happened here, we traded our
future first round pick to get him…he showed a lot in his first year he will come good if he’s still motivated.

Hopefully forms part of a trade with Crows that involves Frampton and something back your way.


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[ksardog]

Hopefully forms part of a trade with Crows that involves Frampton and something back your way.


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Frampton lazy footballer, only plays well when loose man in defence. If we get him, in no way should Poulter be part of the trade. Frampton is a late 4th rounder at best.

 

[magpies42]

Hopefully forms part of a trade with Crows that involves Frampton and something back your way.


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I really don’t want Frampton.

Not much we can do if the kid wants to go home.