Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[hk89]

I know North are practically a lock, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Hawthorn won the spoon. They’re a very old team just going through the motions.

Very old?

Teams this weekend older than us based on selections or who has played so far:
Freo
Carlton
Brisbane
Richmond
Geelong
Melbourne
Sydney
Dogs
Saints
GWS
Eagles
Pies
Port
Essendon
North

Leaving only GC and Crows who were younger (by 2 months and 3 months).

To be fair, that might have been the youngest team we've fielded this year, and when Burgoyne gets back from injury we'll probably be mid-range for age again. However two of the other injured players we'd like to see in the team are Day and DGB (will hopefully debut before end of year, but not a certainty yet) who would likely make the team even younger than this week's (depending on who goes out for them).

 

[E Shed]

I feel safe enough to answer the original question posed. No.


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[WWSD]

Bottom 4 team

I’ll still take the Hawks 23 and under over Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast, Carlton and St Kilda.

 

[CheapCharlie]

Nearly won you a flag in 2016 along with Kennedy. If Franklin hadn't been playing injured you may well have won off the back of performances of 3 current or ex-Hawthorn players.

Mitchell is getting a lot of mention in this latest thread

Worst player to win a brownlow?

For me, it's Tom Mitchell. Literally does nothing with his touches.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[HairyO]

It's a good thing Hawthorn have Tom Mitchell to handball backwards so often.

I'm convinced this guy values his own disposal numbers above actually helping his team win.

He had 22 kicks and the most metres gained outside of half back flankers who always get the most. And he had the most Inside 50s.

Which game were you watching ?

 

[Rtg5]

He had 22 kicks and the most metres gained outside of half back flankers who always get the most. And he had the most Inside 50s.

Which game were you watching ?

Funny how you don't really notice it. It's almost like he's not even remotely damaging. I read the autopsy thread on the Hawthorn board, and it's pretty clear many of your own supporters feel the same way.

 

[The Casey Cat]

I’ll still take the Hawks 23 and under over Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast, Carlton and St Kilda.

Good for you. No one else that's not a remarkably deluded Hawthorn supporter would.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Good for you. No one else that's not a remarkably deluded Hawthorn supporter would.

Looking at their lists, carlton (with weitering, McKay, Walsh all 23 and under) would be the only one I'd say is incorrect here.

I'd clearly take Day, DGB, CJ, Worpel, Kosi, Scrimshaw, Lewis, Reeves (who I'm big on but that may be bias) over what the others have. Which group would you have ahead of that?

 

[HairyO]

Funny how you don't really notice it. It's almost like he's not even remotely damaging. I read the autopsy thread on the Hawthorn board, and it's pretty clear many of your own supporters feel the same way.

Many of our supporters are sooks who cant cope with us being crap for a few years. They seem to think that we should win a flag every single year and magically replace our stars.

 

[WWSD]

Good for you. No one else that's not a remarkably deluded Hawthorn supporter would.

You want to put up the Hawks under 23 and under and compare it to Geelong?

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

You want to put up the Hawks under 23 and under and compare it to Geelong?

Please do... I'm in need of a good laugh.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Looking at their lists, carlton (with weitering, McKay, Walsh all 23 and under) would be the only one I'd say is incorrect here.

I'd clearly take Day, DGB, CJ, Worpel, Kosi, Scrimshaw, Lewis, Reeves (who I'm big on but that may be bias) over what the others have. Which group would you have ahead of that?

Kozi defintley being underrated by many here.

Defintley will be a solid player, if not star for The Hawks going fowards.

 

[giantsully]

Yeah I haven't mentioned the other hits and misses. In 2016 we were in with a huge chance. if Rough plays we are a different side. We really had no KPF. I venture we almost win it. These things happen and Rough was never the same after Cancer. I mean J.Reiwoldt is still going at his age. It is what it is

It's exactly this level of delusion that has left you the worst side in the competition with the worst bunch of youngsters. You're now doomed to a decade of irrelevance because the club thought they were "that close" when in fact they were miles off. I applaud your loyalty while being bewildered by your obliviousness to the blindingly obvious.

 

[WWSD]

It's exactly this level of delusion that has left you the worst side in the competition with the worst bunch of youngsters. You're now doomed to a decade of irrelevance because the club thought they were "that close" when in fact they were miles off. I applaud your loyalty while being bewildered by your obliviousness to the blindingly obvious.

Yeah… nah. There’s many teams right now who’s young players are worse. Have you seen St Kilda and Collingwood?

 

[hk89]

You want to put up the Hawks under 23 and under and compare it to Geelong?

If you look at under 22 it is very hard to know where Geelong stand because they've only got 33 total games into that lot (compared to our 76). Of course this is to be expected of a club that has just played in a grand final. Some of their kids will no doubt be good and just not getting a game because of where they are in the cycle, but they certainly don't have an under 23 list that competes with actual exposed form to the likes of:
Scrimshaw
Worpel
Jiath
Day
Kozi
Lewis

Others in that age bracket who have played at least some AFL level games:
Moore,
Morrison,
Reeves,
Nash,
Greaves
Maginness
Jeka,
Morris,
Brockman

Many of those will not make it, but some will.

With DGB and Downie yet to play a game.

I think of the teams mentioned only Carlton can compete with us in the under 23 department, and they also have some untested talent yet to come in. They definitely have a better top level (Walsh insane for his games level), but we perhaps have more depth from those with actual AFL experience now. There are other clubs outside those mentioned that are also better than us in that regard, but our youth base isn't actually quite as ****ed as many would like to believe if you look at under 23. It is perhaps the 23-26 range where more of our holes are, and this would also help explain our ladder position, as those are often players starting to come into their prime. We've arguably only got 2 decent players on the park right now in that range - Hardwick and Impey, but you can't build a team around small defenders. Sicily in that range, but might not see him at all this year, which would make him 27 by the time he plays again. The others in that who have played this year are Phillips, Cousins and Howe, and I don't think anyway is calling any of those world beaters, although they do play roles we find useful when required.

 

[hk89]

It's exactly this level of delusion that has left you the worst side in the competition with the worst bunch of youngsters.

What are you talking about? In 2016 we were top of the ladder for 8 of the last 10 home and away rounds, and you think saying we were not far off that year is delusional? If Roughy didn't get cancer and played that year, it could indeed have been the difference between 3 flags and 4 flags in a row.

 

[Pessimistic]

I’m pretty confident most of the flags 2021-40 will go to the teams who won them in 2001-20.

there’ll be some new teams, but they’ll be the exception

 

[TylerDurden]

It's exactly this level of delusion that has left you the worst side in the competition with the worst bunch of youngsters. You're now doomed to a decade of irrelevance because the club thought they were "that close" when in fact they were miles off. I applaud your loyalty while being bewildered by your obliviousness to the blindingly obvious.

Delusion?? We were a Smith miss away from another Prelim.

 

[HairyO]

Delusion?? We were a Smith miss away from another Prelim.

Remember, BF logic is that its better to fail and get good draft picks for the future rather than actually win flags.

 

[Scotland]

What are you talking about? In 2016 we were top of the ladder for 8 of the last 10 home and away rounds, and you think saying we were not far off that year is delusional? If Roughy didn't get cancer and played that year, it could indeed have been the difference between 3 flags and 4 flags in a row.

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BEST

Hawthorn: Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Breust, Gunston, Whitecross, Birchall, McEvoy, Shiels

I don't know why people put so much stock in 2016 given all the Crazy Clarko moves started after that season finished.

 

[HairyO]

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BEST

Hawthorn: Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Breust, Gunston, Whitecross, Birchall, McEvoy, Shiels

I don't know why people put so much stock in 2016 given all the Crazy Clarko moves started after that season finished.

So what we should have done was hang on to all our older players and delayed our rebuild even longer?

 

[Scotland]

So what we should have done was hang on to all our older players and delayed our rebuild even longer?

If you thought you were a contender in 2017/18, yes.

 

[HairyO]

If you thought you were a contender in 2017/18, yes.

Even if Clarko thought we had a better chance moving on some of the older players and bringing in new players?

Do all West Coast players retire voluntarily ?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I’ll still take the Hawks 23 and under over Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast, Carlton and St Kilda.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Box hill looked good today