Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Back One Out]

Punky is remarkably resilient. Looking at that list how many seasons more can he play?

Well he is only 28, the same age as Dustin Martin

He is quick, but he doesn't rely on blazing speed or athleticism to kick & create goals. He is simply a smart, classy forward.
No reason why he can't play another 4 or 5 good years if he avoids serious injury. He might end up with 600 goals. (More likely 500+)

It's hard to predict when the end will come for any footballer. Some guys never miss a game and look certain to reach 300, and then suddenly they get plagued with recurring soft tissue injuries (e.g. Grant Birchall)

 

[Scotland]

Mark LeCras wasn't particularly good after 2015 but still kicked 38, 32, 32 goals in his last 3 seasons aged 30-32. Phil Matera went from 61 goals at 29 to 38 and 30 and then never played again with a back injury. Mark Williams disappeared off the face of the Earth (played for Essendon) about 26/27 with injury. Steven Milne was still kicking 50+ a year at 32, Stevie J had one good year at GWS going there at 33. Eddie Betts had a poor year last year and still booted 37 and he's played 300+ games and is turning 34 this year. I wouldn't generally expect a small forward without a history of injury to hit the wall like a key forward or midfielder with a lot of hard miles on the clock. It's not a position where you get banged up like a key forward or someone in the guts. If you rely on explosive pace that can go quickly though.

Bigger concern (seen it a little bit with LeCras and Josh Kennedy) is if you lose sharpness around goal and/or become a bit selfish because you are used to kicking 50 a year but can only manage 30-40 etc. so take iffy snaps when 2 years earlier you would've handballed. If you a dead eye like Breust or Dickson there is an expectation that you will hit the scoreboard without needing a lot of chances. Drop back to 60% accuracy like the Coleman Medal winner and people will think the cliff has come.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Titus, Richo, Bartlett, Riewoldt, Roach, Harris, Dyer all have more goals than Breust.

So the stat is BS

an apology needed from Gaurdian Hawk

 

[Scotland]

So the stat is BS

an apology needed from Gaurdian Hawk

It is, but I assume said poster just looked at the 'detailed stats' page of afltables.com which cuts out at 1965. The same stats say that Jack Riewoldt has more goals than Buddy because it is club specific.

 

[Gavin Excell]

It is, but I assume said poster just looked at the 'detailed stats' page of afltables.com which cuts out at 1965. The same stats say that Jack Riewoldt has more goals than Buddy because it is club specific.

No excuse

 

[hk89]

So the stat is BS

an apology needed from Gaurdian Hawk

Harsh to call it BS, he just made a mistake by looking at the post 1965 stats, which is an easy mistake to make on the AFL tables site.

Still fairly telling that there are only 7 Richmond players ahead of Breust in the 112 year VFL/AFL history of the club, and that all of those ahead of him played at least a couple of seasons more than Breust has - some of them a shit load more seasons. Not only would Breust slot straight into Richmond's best 22, he'd have done so in any year in the last 112 years. He'd also stroll into their hall of fame, given the number of lesser players clogging up that ignoble list.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Harsh to call it BS, he just made a mistake by looking at the post 1965 stats, which is an easy mistake to make on the AFL tables site.

Still fairly telling that there are only 7 Richmond players ahead of Breust in the 112 year VFL/AFL history of the club, and that all of those ahead of him played at least a couple of seasons more than Breust has - some of them a shit load more seasons. Not only would Breust slot straight into Richmond's best 22, he'd have done so in any year in the last 112 years. He'd also stroll into their hall of fame, given the number of lesser players clogging up that ignoble list.

Agree most clubs would welcome Breust in their team

 

[Scotland]

Three teams won 16 games last year, Gold Coast won 3. I'd still take players from the Gold Coast team.

People get a bit carried away with how good players are that play in successful teams. It's not the Premier League, your 20th best player isn't good enough to be another team's star. The only thing that skews AFL comparisons is that shit teams normally fill their 22s with kids that aren't ready.

 

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

Geelong lost to a team filled with recycled injured B graders.

1902-1961 = 59 years of failure
1961-2020 = 59 years of success
2020- 2079 = 59 years of failure

 

[Pessimistic]

1902-1961 = 59 years of failure
1961-2020 = 59 years of success
2020- 2079 = 59 years of failure

‘you discovered the AFLs dastardly plan

 

[Guardian Hawk]

So the stat is BS

an apology needed from Gaurdian Hawk

Home now (copped a beating in basketball tonight and evidently on here too).

Happy to put my hand up and say I got that one wrong. I did indeed use afl tables which over the course of the off season I had forgotten only counts 1965 to now (should have twigged with no Titus but posted during a Skype meeting at work).

Point stands though (both on Breust and the idiocy of Blaisee) given he has more goals than any small forward Richmond has had in the AFL era (more assists, tackles, etc as well).

 

[Hawk_francais]

Agree most clubs would welcome Breust in their team

Which one of them wouldn't? You're underrating him here, he's a gun and he hasn't dropped off one bit.

 

[Back One Out]

Has this thread degenerated to people questioning the quality of Breust? Right.

People were gobbing off about Tom Mitchell a few pages back.
The guy who got more of the ball and more Brownlow votes than everyone in the two seasons before he broke his leg.
Apparently he'll never be any good again "cos Nathan Brown set a precedent when he busted his leg and was no good after that"

 

[hk89]

Has this thread degenerated to people questioning the quality of Breust? Right.

Not people. Blaise.

 

[HairyO]

Has this thread degenerated to people questioning the quality of Breust? Right.

Ironic given he trained with Swans as a kid and we got him as a Rookie.

 

[cryptor]

I hold grave concerns for Hawthorn this year after last night.

Could be a bottom 6 year. Hopefully Clarko can get something out of the list.

Based on your logic and last night we'll be down there with your Eagles.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Has this thread degenerated to people questioning the quality of Breust? Right.

It’s irrelevant - he was recruited well before the period being discussed

It’s moronic - he’s an outstanding player

So yeah, it’s in here!

 

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

I still rate them in the top 8 of all clubs but their list is pretty bad. Which is outweighed by an excellent coach. But sometimes it doesn't matter how good the coach is if the list is hopeless. For example I doubt Clarko would've been able to get through to a despondent 2010 Melbourne list. This list isn't hopeless though just lacking it in a lot of talent. Flare finesse and poise they need more of it

 

[Jobe Watson]

Will Hawthorn regret not taking Irving Mosquito? May not have been taken at the elite end of the draft, but obviously Hawthorn didn't rate him too highly if they let him slip through. After last night's efforts he looks like he has a ton of raw talent and energy and could play a handful of AFL games this year. In my humble opinion, this could really come back to bite Hawthorn. What does everyone else think? I'd love to hear some opinions on this.

 

[hk89]

Will Hawthorn regret not taking Irving Mosquito? May not have been taken at the elite end of the draft, but obviously Hawthorn didn't rate him too highly if they let him slip through. After last night's efforts he looks like he has a ton of raw talent and energy and could play a handful of AFL games this year. In my humble opinion, this could really come back to bite Hawthorn. What does everyone else think? I'd love to hear some opinions on this.

We probably thought we were in more urgent need of KP depth, so went with Jacob Koschitzke instead of matching. Neither has played an AFL game yet, and Jacob did his shoulder in an intra-club practice match so is not likely to get a game in the first part of the season. Hawthorn have nailed plenty of late draft picks, but they're never going to get 100% of those calls right, and Mosquito might be one they've missed out on. Right now it is far too early to tell if the fist pump was justified or not at this stage. I guess Dodo will be happy for the win given the debacle of turning down at least one, possible 2 first rounders for a guy that is perpetually injured and didn't want to be at the club this year. Not to mention the baffling inability to recruit a big bodied inside mid since Jobe's post-thymosin beta-4 form drop. I can definitely see why he gets excited when he grabs a talented , but very raw project player like Mosquito from under the noses of Hawthorn.

 

[Scotland]

Can't believe that got a bite. Was barely a 1.5 star effort.

 

[TylerDurden]

Will Hawthorn regret not taking Irving Mosquito? May not have been taken at the elite end of the draft, but obviously Hawthorn didn't rate him too highly if they let him slip through. After last night's efforts he looks like he has a ton of raw talent and energy and could play a handful of AFL games this year. In my humble opinion, this could really come back to bite Hawthorn. What does everyone else think? I'd love to hear some opinions on this.

5 touches yeah? Wow.

 

[Gavin Excell]

5 touches yeah? Wow.

A handful of games too he may play

 

[matey]

Dodo wasn’t pumping his fist after Mosquito’s game last night. Maybe Wright was.

 

[hk89]

5 touches yeah? Wow.

To be fair, it looks like he wasn't on for much more than a quarter of total game time, so not terrible.