Can we talk about the captaincy?

[CatToTheFuture]

Contracts irrelevant. when his form isnt good enough anymore then he will probably go. he is more likely to go later then selwood but if danger gets a bad injury now i cant see him coming back.

I think he would just get rotated through the forward line more. Come in for a burst. It's 2 years longer, but so longer

 

[Del28562]

To me Stewart's cut from the same cloth as scarlo and Enright, hes not keen on the media, he's our best player, leadership group yes but not captain.

Danger may retire the same time as selwood.

stewart is the replacement.

 

[Sky]

Yeah got to appease his beloved ego considering he’s achieved nothing else in his time as captain…fu** what the club needs for the future right ?

There is nobody on our list that seems they’d make a better captain than Joel. If I could choose someone personally I’d lean towards Tommy Stewart or second pick Mitch Duncan but I really think the club would go with Blicavs or Danger

 

[Cosmic Energy]

Not many would have picked Harley or Ling to be skippers. It’s about picking the best leader, not the best player. We have lots of leaders, I think the next skipper will come from our leadership group - Danger, Stewart, Blicavs, Duncan, Tuohy or O’Connor.

Yes I wasn't talking about the best player either. Only Stewart and O'Connor have the right temperament out of that group and have a bit of time on their side. The Harley example is a good one - determined, intelligent, played with physicality & intensity, and demanded excellence of others who were more gifted than him.

A couple of that group have enough exposed finals heat form to say they aren't what we need.

 

[Poetic Justice]

Selwood needs to be captain for as long as he keeps playing. Otherwise - whether he means to or not - he is such a force of personality that it would be extremely difficult for any other captain to get clean air.

Can't agree with that - his role should be to mentor the next captain and play the team game - not work against it.

 

[standupand]

Can't agree with that - his role should be to mentor the next captain and play the team game - not work against it.

Can you really mentor a leader though? So long as Selwood is there I'd say it would be very hard for anyone else to find their own voice as captain and put their individual stamp on the team. It's not because Sel would be working against it. It's just how group dynamics go.

 

[Poetic Justice]

Can you really mentor a leader though? So long as Selwood is there I'd say it would be very hard for anyone else to find their own voice as captain and put their individual stamp on the team. It's not because Sel would be working against it. It's just how group dynamics go.

With that logic you could say then that in 2012 Joel would have been pointless as captain because he had Matthew Scarlett in the team. No, Scarlo was not captain but he would have had massive ascendancy over Joel in the team. Scarlett's role would have been to help encourage, support and nurture Joel as captain just as it would be Joel's responsibility to help build his own replacement.

 

[iameviljez]

Can't agree with that - his role should be to mentor the next captain and play the team game - not work against it.

Sure, that is ideally his role - but I think he will cast such a long shadow regardless of how he behaves. It’s like Sir Alex at Man Utd - his voice is so respected, that while he is still around, he will be listened to well above anyone else.

 

[iameviljez]

With that logic you could say then that in 2012 Joel would have been pointless as captain because he had Matthew Scarlett in the team. No, Scarlo was not captain but he would have had massive ascendancy over Joel in the team. Scarlett's role would have been to help encourage, support and nurture Joel as captain just as it would be Joel's responsibility to help build his own replacement.

Scarlett didn’t have ascendancy over Selwood at the time. Sel had been anointed captain-in-waiting from his debut year.

 

[Poetic Justice]

Scarlett didn’t have ascendancy over Selwood at the time. Sel had been anointed captain-in-waiting from his debut year.

The GOAT FB who lead rebellion against the club wanting to offload Bomber Thompson and was always considered an authoritarian player - you don't think he would have had sway or overshadowed Selwood?

 

[iameviljez]

The GOAT FB who lead rebellion against the club wanting to offload Bomber Thompson and was always considered an authoritarian player - you don't think he would have had sway or overshadowed Selwood?

No I don’t. Selwood was the most obvious pick as future captain I have ever seen and had just come off a BoG performance in a Grand Final (sorry, Jimmy).

 

[Poetic Justice]

No I don’t. Selwood was the most obvious pick as future captain I have ever seen and had just come off a BoG performance in a Grand Final (sorry, Jimmy).

I'm not debating who was better suited to be captain

 

[iameviljez]

I'm not debating who was better suited to be captain

Yeah but my point is that if Scarlo and Joel ever were to disagree, there is only one winner and it’s not the guy who wasn’t even a VC and got himself suspended for whacking a mouthy forward pocket that year.

 

[Drunkcat]

He reminds me of a punch drunk boxer should give it away, but just won't let go, just to slow to play in the middle and his skill has dropping off he stuffs up a bit now, if he stays on got to let go of the captain and find a new spot to play

 

[iameviljez]

In all truth, I think someone does need to sit Selwood down and tell him that it’s probably time. Not just for the captaincy.

I feel like he has another half-year of good football in him. He is still a good footballer, but the anonymous performances are starting to creep in a little more, and he is in danger of spending next year chasing at young shadows in the VFL.

I also don’t think it is in the club’s best interests to keep playing him next year. He is a great leader, but that has to end now too.

 

[standupand]

I'm not debating who was better suited to be captain

You could say the same thing about lots of players in the side at that time who were more experienced: Enright, Bartel, Kelly, Chapman, even Johnson. They were all influential clubmen who wouldn't have been shy to express their views. But Selwood was highly respected pretty much from his first year and was a natural fit for captain. He wouldn't have felt at the time like his leadership was shadowed by any of those other players.

 

[Spearman]

Yes I wasn't talking about the best player either. Only Stewart and O'Connor have the right temperament out of that group and have a bit of time on their side. The Harley example is a good one - determined, intelligent, played with physicality & intensity, and demanded excellence of others who were more gifted than him.

A couple of that group have enough exposed finals heat form to say they aren't what we need.

I think a Harley type would be good for the group. The attributes you listed are spot on. I'd add good communication skills, as we've seen post-retirement. I'd bet he was good at approaching individual players and getting them onside.
One aspect of leadership I feel has been missing in the side is the ultra-passionate type. Doesn't need to be the captain, but as a complement to him. Someone like Mooney, with absolute murder in his eyes giving a rev up. TBH I wasn't particularly gee'd up by the pregame video clip of the boys. Remember how we played when Enright stepped in.

 

[Poetic Justice]

You could say the same thing about lots of players in the side at that time who were more experienced: Enright, Bartel, Kelly, Chapman, even Johnson. They were all influential clubmen who wouldn't have been shy to express their views. But Selwood was highly respected pretty much from his first year and was a natural fit for captain. He wouldn't have felt at the time like his leadership was shadowed by any of those other players.

So if Stewart was the natural choice to be the heir to Selwood's throne, why would Selwood do nothing but support him?

I can't quite subscribe to the notion that the captain only relinquishes the responsibility at retirement

 

[iameviljez]

So if Stewart was the natural choice to be the heir to Selwood's throne, why would Selwood do nothing but support him?

I can't quite subscribe to the notion that the captain only relinquishes the responsibility at retirement

If it’s someone like Steven King, sure. But Selwood IS Geelong. For the same reason that CEOs and long-serving Prime Ministers don’t stick around after losing the top job, he can’t stick around without being captain… regardless of how much support he gives the captain.

 

[standupand]

So if Stewart was the natural choice to be the heir to Selwood's throne, why would Selwood do nothing but support him?

I can't quite subscribe to the notion that the captain only relinquishes the responsibility at retirement

Yeah of course he would support him. I just mean it would be very difficult on Stewart because Joel is such a longstanding and dominant captain and they are big shoes to fill. It would be easier to be your own person and do things the way you think once Joel had retired. It's natural that the playing group might want to still turn to Joel for instance, and that might subtly undermine the new captain. Nothing to do with what Sel does or doesn't do. Just the dynamic of the group.

 

[iameviljez]

Yeah of course he would support him. I just mean it would be very difficult on Stewart because Joel is such a longstanding and dominant captain and they are big shoes to fill. It would be easier to be your own person and do things the way you think once Joel had retired. It's natural that the playing group might want to still turn to Joel for instance, and that might subtly undermine the new captain. Nothing to do with what Sel does or doesn't do. Just the dynamic of the group.

Man Utd had this exact issue with Sir Alex Ferguson leaving the manager role but being retained as a club director. Good luck being able to justify your own managerial decisions to the board if Sir Alex - even respectfully - disagrees.

 

[Tackle_happy]

Selwood practically carried us single -handedly for a number of years. Dragged us across the line in game after game, after game, after game. Put his body and of course his poor old head on the line every single week for so long. He’s not been just any old captain. There has to still be some honour in football and relationships matter. I understand your view, and of course see the sense in what you say, but I just see it differently.

Due to those carries he is now unable to any longer and has limited ability to play elsewhere on the ground.

We all know just how great he is and I don't begrudge him going on, but I think the best for the team is either a very limited season and not captain ... or retiring.

 

[Spearman]

Here's my prediction, if he cements place in top 22, and gets some vocal training to lower his voice an octave for media work, then I believe....Zach Guthrie

39

Zach Guthrie

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

90.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.0

2star

MG

90.0

2star

D

10.4

3star

K

3.8

2star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.6

4star

could be in the mix for next captain. Great work ethic, smart and good clubman, if he can turn his demands for improvng himself towards improving his teammates I think he could be a smokey.

 

[Down at K Park]

To me Stewart's cut from the same cloth as scarlo and Enright, hes not keen on the media, he's our best player, leadership group yes but not captain.

Ah what? I regularly see him fronting the media for interviews.

 

[allrighty]

Here's my prediction, if he cements place in top 22, and gets some vocal training to lower his voice an octave for media work, then I believe....Zach Guthrie could be in the mix for next captain. Great work ethic, smart and good clubman, if he can turn his demands for improvng himself towards improving his teammates I think he could be a smokey.