Opinion Can't kick, can't play football

[RussellEbertHandball]

I started this thread back in June 2016 out of sheer frustration that it was pointless working as hard as we do if our kicking is ratshit especially when kicking at goal, entering our forward fifty and turning the ball over so regularly.

Because we have stuffed up over 2017,18 and 19 and still making basic errors at critical times in games it feels like things haven't improved, but we have been progressing. Bit like looking in the mirror everyday and not picking up minor changes, but if you have photos 4 years apart or someone sees you for the first time in 4 years they notice you look a bit older, the hair is a little grey, a few more wrinkles that you have picked up looking everyday.

Watching us Saturday night, and it helped the crows were so poor at times, you can see the improvements in our sides kicking. The test will come when the pressure comes up but can see we are pushing to have good long kicks in the back half. Of the 24 players used this year, I put them into these categories;

Good accurate long and short kicks and can hit targets with either leg
Houston, Burton, Hartlett

Long accurate kicks, don't often get tested on non natural leg
Bonner, Mckenzie, Lienert, Amon

Young players good kicks who don't make too many clangers so far in career
Rozee, Marshall, Duursma, Georgiades,


Low kicking efficiency, partly because of position played
Westhoff, Boak Motlop, SPP, Ebert, Gray, Rockliff, Lycett, Jonas

Average kicks - make the odd clanger that can hurt
DBJ, Clurey, Butters, Dixon

 

[El_Scorcho]

We need the likes of Clurey to hand off to someone who can kick a bit more often. The Jackson Trengove move of always kicking safely within himself might be the way to go. The Crows are shit, but against any half decent side, bad turnovers coming out of defence will absolutely kill us. Safety first.

 

[I drive a truck]

I started this thread back in June 2016 out of sheer frustration that it was pointless working as hard as we do if our kicking is ratshit especially when kicking at goal, entering our forward fifty and turning the ball over so regularly.

Because we have stuffed up over 2017,18 and 19 and still making basic errors at critical times in games it feels like things haven't improved, but we have been progressing. Bit like looking in the mirror everyday and not picking up minor changes, but if you have photos 4 years apart or someone sees you for the first time in 4 years they notice you look a bit older, the hair is a little grey, a few more wrinkles that you have picked up looking everyday.

Watching us Saturday night, and it helped the crows were so poor at times, you can see the improvements in our sides kicking. The test will come when the pressure comes up but can see we are pushing to have good long kicks in the back half. Of the 24 players used this year, I put them into these categories;

Good accurate long and short kicks and can hit targets with either leg
Houston, Burton, Hartlett

Long accurate kicks, don't often get tested on non natural leg
Bonner, Mckenzie, Lienert, Amon

Young players good kicks who don't make too many clangers so far in career
Rozee, Marshall, Duursma, Georgiades,


Low kicking efficiency, partly because of position played
Westhoff, Boak Motlop, SPP, Ebert, Gray, Rockliff, Lycett, Jonas

Average kicks - make the odd clanger that can hurt
DBJ, Clurey, Butters, Dixon

I see Butters as an almost elite kick. His issue is decision making. Occasionally he tries to bite off more than he can chew. This will improve. A lot of players in the AFL are now using their preferred foot and kicking off the side of the foot rather than using their opposite. They are training it.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Schulzenfest]

We need the likes of Clurey to hand off to someone who can kick a bit more often. The Jackson Trengove move of always kicking safely within himself might be the way to go. The Crows are shit, but against any half decent side, bad turnovers coming out of defence will absolutely kill us. Safety first.

I reckon Clurey thinks he's a lot better at kicking than he is.

 

[Stewart2Austin Reborn]

I reckon Clurey thinks he's a lot better at kicking than he is.

Probably but I suspect it's more coaching directive than ego driven

 

[Us against the rest]

I started this thread back in June 2016 out of sheer frustration that it was pointless working as hard as we do if our kicking is ratshit especially when kicking at goal, entering our forward fifty and turning the ball over so regularly.

Because we have stuffed up over 2017,18 and 19 and still making basic errors at critical times in games it feels like things haven't improved, but we have been progressing. Bit like looking in the mirror everyday and not picking up minor changes, but if you have photos 4 years apart or someone sees you for the first time in 4 years they notice you look a bit older, the hair is a little grey, a few more wrinkles that you have picked up looking everyday.

Watching us Saturday night, and it helped the crows were so poor at times, you can see the improvements in our sides kicking. The test will come when the pressure comes up but can see we are pushing to have good long kicks in the back half. Of the 24 players used this year, I put them into these categories;

Good accurate long and short kicks and can hit targets with either leg
Houston, Burton, Hartlett

Long accurate kicks, don't often get tested on non natural leg
Bonner, Mckenzie, Lienert, Amon

Young players good kicks who don't make too many clangers so far in career
Rozee, Marshall, Duursma, Georgiades,


Low kicking efficiency, partly because of position played
Westhoff, Boak Motlop, SPP, Ebert, Gray, Rockliff, Lycett, Jonas

Average kicks - make the odd clanger that can hurt
DBJ, Clurey, Butters, Dixon

Our poor skills have been so annoying in the last few seasons and have cost many wins, let's hope we keep improving.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

So much for lower scoring, less training and poor goal kicking because the sports science guys say you can do that many kicks at goal after training or you will break down.

2 of the 11 most accurate scoring conversions happened within 24 hours of each other.

St Kilda have also kicked 14.4 = 77.78% in Rd 2 v WB at Docklands which makes the top 150.

David Rath moves to Saint Kilda at start of November 2019, their goal kicking improves and conversion becomes as good as has happened over 120 years. Coincidence?? I think not.

https://australianfootball.com/leagues/accurate_scoring/AFL/138/Premiership+Season/1

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Collingwood's effort last night slots in with St Kilda 15.3 above as an 83.33% conversion.

 

[sog35]

Collingwood's effort last night slots in with St Kilda 15.3 above as an 83.33% conversion.

View attachment 933669

Feel like the Pies "John Butchered" at least 3 shots on goal last night (particularly first half) where they either didn't make the distance or went out on the full. xS would be interesting.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Feel like the Pies "John Butchered" at least 3 shots on goal last night (particularly first half) where they either didn't make the distance or went out on the full. xS would be interesting.

Collingwood Xscore 67 v actual 62. crows Xscore 39 v 38 actual.

 

[sog35]

Collingwood Xscore 67 v actual 62. crows Xscore 39 v 38 actual.

Interesting, thanks for that!

 

[OneGreatClub]

Posted this elsewhere too. In the second half Bassett discusses Dixon’s kicking style.
Doesn’t sound like much hope of improvement there.

NATHAN BASSETT ON KYMBO & THE ROOCH (13.08.20)

Port Adelaide Assistant, Nathan Bassett joined the boys to preview their round 12 clash against the Cats!

player.whooshkaa.com

 

[Port85]

Dixon - he's going at 59% accuracy from set shots in 2020 up from 45% in 2019.

Maybe there is a mental issue about being 25-30m out or maybe the technique he uses to make the distance from 40m+ has a late fade/draw or something which doesn't have the time to happen over a shorter distance.

 

[Grave Danger]

This is re goalkicking only, but doesn't read well for uz.

The goal kicking accuracy ladders after Round 11

The best and worst in front of goal so far this season.

www.sen.com.au

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Choco was on Dwayne's show yesterday talking VFL / 2nd tiered comps and what it means to players and kids in Vic maybe no longer playing U/18 comp but with VFL teams and a bit on tackling, prior opportunity and HTB.

Near the end he asks Choco about his work with kids, amaetuer and semi-pro footballers via his website Champion Teams - The Kick Doctor. Of course Choco steals an extra 5 minutes instead of 1, but talks about goal kicking and raises 2 points.

1. Brisbane can not win if they don't fix up their goal kicking and then bangs on about Ben Perkins living in Brisbane, doing nothing and that he would be cheap to get to work with them

2. Said the best piece of advise he got on goal kick was from Peter McKenna when he played for Collingwood. Mckenna said momentum in the routine is important as is follow thru. Mckenna said he would follow thru after his kick and try and touch the guy standing on the mark for set shots.

Watch our players kick for goal when they stuff up set shots and you see that leaning back and non follow thru seem to be the 2 big issues. The trying to poke the ball thru the posts and therefore players stop after their kick is annoying. Kick thru the ball as if you were 40m out, don't poke thru it just because its a 20m kick.

SEN Afternoons

Dwayne Russell will have a strong focus on local and international sporting issues, with footy front and centre.

webplayer.whooshkaa.com

 

[1954]

Some interesting comments re Tom Clurey's kicking, which unfortunately has deteriorated since I saw him play for the bays against the Maggies at the bay oval back in the dim darks.
He was arguably the best long kick in their team, with consistent long drop punts to position, or 30-40 metre head high passes to a loose man, that seldom, if at all missed the target.

The only knock I had on him at that time was he was undersized height wise for a kpp, even in the snafl.

To paraphrase some other posters regarding his kicking though, maybe he has been Ported.

 

[ROBBBO]

2. Said the best piece of advise he got on goal kick was from Peter McKenna when he played for Collingwood. Mckenna said momentum in the routine is important as is follow thru. Mckenna said he would follow thru after his kick and try and touch the guy standing on the mark for set shots.

SEN Afternoons

Dwayne Russell will have a strong focus on local and international sporting issues, with footy front and centre.

webplayer.whooshkaa.com

totally agree with this.. "flat footed" set shot routines seem to fail more, watch Rankine or Schultz, straight up on their toes

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Choco was on Dwayne's show yesterday talking VFL / 2nd tiered comps and what it means to players and kids in Vic maybe no longer playing U/18 comp but with VFL teams and a bit on tackling, prior opportunity and HTB.

Near the end he asks Choco about his work with kids, amaetuer and semi-pro footballers via his website Champion Teams - The Kick Doctor. Of course Choco steals an extra 5 minutes instead of 1, but talks about goal kicking and raises 2 points.

1. Brisbane can not win if they don't fix up their goal kicking and then bangs on about Ben Perkins living in Brisbane, doing nothing and that he would be cheap to get to work with them

2. Said the best piece of advise he got on goal kick was from Peter McKenna when he played for Collingwood. Mckenna said momentum in the routine is important as is follow thru. Mckenna said he would follow thru after his kick and try and touch the guy standing on the mark for set shots.

Watch our players kick for goal when they stuff up set shots and you see that leaning back and non follow thru seem to be the 2 big issues. The trying to poke the ball thru the posts and therefore players stop after their kick is annoying. Kick thru the ball as if you were 40m out, don't poke thru it just because its a 20m kick.

SEN Afternoons

Dwayne Russell will have a strong focus on local and international sporting issues, with footy front and centre.

webplayer.whooshkaa.com

yep.

Id love to see someone do a maash up of Charlie Dixon's early season goal kicking v recent weeks.

Early in the season he had much better momentum and didn't look like missing. I remember commenting on it to my Dad and being very excited about what it meant for Port.

For some reason now he has slowed down his routine again and is leaning back (even the ones he kicks).

 

[DaTBird187]

Choco was on Dwayne's show yesterday talking VFL / 2nd tiered comps and what it means to players and kids in Vic maybe no longer playing U/18 comp but with VFL teams and a bit on tackling, prior opportunity and HTB.

Near the end he asks Choco about his work with kids, amaetuer and semi-pro footballers via his website Champion Teams - The Kick Doctor. Of course Choco steals an extra 5 minutes instead of 1, but talks about goal kicking and raises 2 points.

1. Brisbane can not win if they don't fix up their goal kicking and then bangs on about Ben Perkins living in Brisbane, doing nothing and that he would be cheap to get to work with them

2. Said the best piece of advise he got on goal kick was from Peter McKenna when he played for Collingwood. Mckenna said momentum in the routine is important as is follow thru. Mckenna said he would follow thru after his kick and try and touch the guy standing on the mark for set shots.

Watch our players kick for goal when they stuff up set shots and you see that leaning back and non follow thru seem to be the 2 big issues. The trying to poke the ball thru the posts and therefore players stop after their kick is annoying. Kick thru the ball as if you were 40m out, don't poke thru it just because its a 20m kick.

SEN Afternoons

Dwayne Russell will have a strong focus on local and international sporting issues, with footy front and centre.

webplayer.whooshkaa.com

When you watch footage of Scott Hodges or Tim Evans kick for goal one thing stands out. No matter how far out they were, the ball almost always goes through at the height of the top of the goal posts. Kick through the ball!!

 

[Port85]

This is a really interesting article on why Brisbane are super inaccurate

https://miracleongraphs.com/2020/08/25/shooting-from-the-hipwood/

A few key points:

• We play a very similar forward half game style
• Our forward line is mediocre, but not terrible, at converting opportunities (2.7pts down on expected score)
• Our midfield creates the second highest scoring opportunities (behind Brisbane) but are the second worst at converting (behind Brisbane)
• Below is a table showing expected score (xScore) vs Actual Score taken from the Stats Insider website for players who have taken at least 10 shots in 2020

Name	Position	xScore	Actual Score	DIFF
Butters	MID-FWD	49.4	58	8.6
Motlop	Gen FWD	28.5	37	8.5
Dixon	KEY FWD	148.9	154	5.1
Gray	Gen FWD	67.4	71	3.6
Westhoff	Key FWD	55.9	59	3.1
Amon	MID	26.2	29	2.8
Georgiades	KEY FWD	52.9	54	1.1
Wines	MID	30.5	28	-2.5
Marshall	Key FWD	68.6	61	-7.6
Rozee	MID-FWD	40.6	33	-7.6
Duursma	MID	36.6	27	-9.6
SPP	MID-FWD	47.9	34	-13.9
Farrell	MID	57.2	42	-15.2
Boak	MID	52.7	37	-15.7
Ebert	GEN FWD	60.8	45	-15.8

• Dixon is about 20% of our score for the year
• Wines is not as bad as I thought
• Rozee, Farrell and Duursma much worse than I thought
• SPP, Boak, Ebert about where I thought they would be
• Butters is a freak

If Hinkley stays or someone like Schofield inherits the team and plays a similar game style, we will need to find a way to get more score from our midfield group, whether that be trading or drafting. Rozee, Duursma, SPP and Faz might improve with experience, if we're lucky.

 

[sog35]

It's fine margins when you analyse player by player, for instance Duursma only needs to convert two of those shots and he's back to break even. Trends over a couple of seasons and the type of shot (i.e. set shot miss vs in play) would be telling in terms of if its a problem to fix with a player or we're just waiting to return to the mean.

There is increasing evidence that our game style, front half with congested attacking fifty leads to some lower % chances through tough crumbs etc. In the end it seems like we're going for volume rather than quality in the most part.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Reading the Dylan Williams story and him saying his kicking and footy smart's are his biggest assets, it made me realise we really are stacking the back line with converted forwards / mids who are our best kicks.

Houston, Burton, Mckenzie, Farrell, Williams and Bonner - who is a better long accurate kick than short accurate. Bergman is a decent kick.

Once Jonas goes and we leave DBJ out of the defence, nearly all our best kickers will be in defence. Just have to make sure that they get plenty of the ball around centre of the ground or forward of centre and hit targets inside 50.

Helps our current 3 young gun clearance players - Rozee, Butters and JHF are better kicks than Ollie, Boak, Ebert, SPP, Rockliff etc between 2016 when I started this thread, and 2020 the last post before this one.

Marshall has improved his goal kicking out of site since the last post in here and Dixon has recovered from the yips he had in 2020 and 2021.

Still missing too many goal scoring opportunities, but we are in general a lot better kicking side than during the 2016 to 2020 years.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

From WheeloRatings great stats site where he gets access to Champion Data stats, but the AFL website have once again ****ed up the stats they provide, probably wanting to protect their investment in Champion Data, after providing decent info in 2022 and I think also 2021. They seem to change hiw much they are prepared to provide every year.

From my AFL Record from the ANZAC Rd game so after 5 games this year:

AFL ruckmen kicking efficiency % average is 54.1% - Lycett was going at 58.1%, disposal average is 66.2% Lycett was 82.4%. Teakle is at 59.1%.

Mids AFL average is 60.3%, disposal average is 70.5%
Forwards average is 60.3%, disposal average is 67.6%
Defenders average is 77.6%, disposal average is 80.1%

Ranked by Kicking Efficiency %. You have to manipulate the data - pick 2023, Port Adelaide and click on the Disposal Efficiency button under the Select Statistical Categories heading at

AFL Player Statistics

AFL player statistics.

www.wheeloratings.com

For some reason after Wines, no other players' Kicking Efficiency % is shown, but after Bonner, the disposal efficiency % are
Fantasia 56.5%
Lord....... N/A
Georgiades 55.6%
Jones...... 78.6%
Burgoyne N/A
Mead...... N/A
Evans...... N/A
Teakle..... 59.1%

 

[WheeloRatings]

For some reason after Wines, no other players' Kicking Efficiency % is shown, but after Bonner, the disposal efficiency % are
Fantasia 56.5%
Lord....... N/A
Georgiades 55.6%
Jones...... 78.6%
Burgoyne N/A
Mead...... N/A
Evans...... N/A
Teakle..... 59.1%

The Kicking Efficiency is only shown for players with 20+ kicks, and similarly, the Disposal Efficiency is only shown for players with 20+ disposals. Those calculations aren't that meaningful if the denominator is too low, so I don't show the values.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Okay, I want to know what the **** is going on at the club.

This is actually incredible.

Jeremy Finlaysonn:

Club	G	B	Accuracy
GWS	90​	45​	66.7%​
Port	54​	41​	56.8%​

Charlie Dixon

22

Charlie Dixon

Age

34

Ht

200cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.6

5star

D

10.5

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.5

2star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.5

2star

G

2.5

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

:

Club	G	B	Accuracy
GC	94​	41​	69.6%​
Port	237​	146​	61.9%​

Orazio Fantasia

14

Orazio Fantasia

Age

29

Ht

180cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.1

5star

G

1.4

5star

D

9.8

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.4

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

2star

G

0.2

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.0

1star

:

Club	G	B	Accuracy
Essendon	111​	77​	59.0%​
Port	30​	28​	51.7%​

Willie Rioli

15

Willie Rioli

Age

29

Ht

175cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.0

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.6

3star

:

Club	G	B	Accuracy
West Coast	60​	27​	69.0%​
Port	17​	13​	56.7%​

Scott Lycett

29

Scott Lycett

Age

32

Ht

203cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

6.3

4star

CL

2.6

4star

HO

19.0

5star

D

11.3

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

5.7

3star

CL

4.2

5star

HO

24.7

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

5.0

5star

:

Club	G	B	Accuracy
West Coast	45​	28​	61.6%​
Port	16​	14​	53.3%​