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Official Club Stuff Carlton Academy - Next Gen & Father/Son/Daughter Discussion
- Thread starter Aphrodite
- Start date
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I think everyone can admit that the F/S and Academy systems are blatantly inequitable. They fly in the face of a "fair" competition and undermine a parity encouraging draft system.
We have the F/S rule because we like the romance. That's it. It's cool to see generations of families in the same team, great for the families and great for fans to see.
The academies serve a purpose in growing the game in non-traditional AFL markets, which works - much to the chagrin of Victorians (and probably SA/WA teams too in fairness, but you only hear the whinging from the big V). South-east QLD has never had this much talent coming out of it.
Neither are promote a fair and balanced league, and in fact are patently unfair. We have them because they serve other purposes. What we're trying to fix is a patently unfair system that serve purposes above a balanced league. Particularly the academies you don't want to undermine, they are growing the game. Cut the legs from under them then you lose that, so it's certainly a delicate operation to not cut too hard while trying to square things up as much as possible.
We have the F/S rule because we like the romance. That's it. It's cool to see generations of families in the same team, great for the families and great for fans to see.
The academies serve a purpose in growing the game in non-traditional AFL markets, which works - much to the chagrin of Victorians (and probably SA/WA teams too in fairness, but you only hear the whinging from the big V). South-east QLD has never had this much talent coming out of it.
Neither are promote a fair and balanced league, and in fact are patently unfair. We have them because they serve other purposes. What we're trying to fix is a patently unfair system that serve purposes above a balanced league. Particularly the academies you don't want to undermine, they are growing the game. Cut the legs from under them then you lose that, so it's certainly a delicate operation to not cut too hard while trying to square things up as much as possible.
Fixture and umpiring are bigger concerns imo.
- Mar 20, 2017
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Apart from Bailey Rice they also had another called Stuart Annand in 1989. He never played a game for them though.
David Sierakowski was another
Yeah, worrying too much about the 'fairness' of Father-Son rules when you have an 18 team 23 game season is having your priorities out of whack.
I don't have a problem with the academies either, it's just the points curve has been way off so that the clubs haven't had to pay a fair price.
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
If the AFL are changing the points system requiring clubs to trade in more picks to secure academy/FS players, then get rid of the ridiculous rule where you can't trade out future picks unless you have a full house - ie you can't trade your future 1st if you've already traded out a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round pick.
And while you're at it, get rid of the rule where clubs are required to least two first-round picks in a rolling four-year period - which was only brought in by the AFL nearly 10 years ago to protect teams from 'trading themselves into long-term trouble'. It doesn't happen!!!
The AFL needs to stop playing list manager and allow clubs to manage their own lists without these obstacles.
And while you're at it, get rid of the rule where clubs are required to least two first-round picks in a rolling four-year period - which was only brought in by the AFL nearly 10 years ago to protect teams from 'trading themselves into long-term trouble'. It doesn't happen!!!
The AFL needs to stop playing list manager and allow clubs to manage their own lists without these obstacles.
One solution could be to set the points discount by the number of picks used to match. Eg if a single pick is used the maximum discount is applied because they are using a pick close to the bid. Whereas if multiple picks are used then the discount disappears or even goes to a penalty. So if say 3 or 4 later picks are used they need more points.
And add a rule that clubs can't trade back in ahead of any picks already used for bid matching
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Apparently trading picks 2 years in advance is coming in, so you'd think those other rules will go or at least be altered.
You’d need to be a very brave list manager to trade a first rounder 2 years in advance
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noobermensch
Premiership Player
- Apr 21, 2022
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Another strong game from Ben Camporeale and one of SA's best on the day. His standout traits are his toughness, movement through traffic and his elite tank, all of which were on prominent display here. The thing that will most please draft watchers and Carlton fans is the improvement in his much maligned kicking. Apart from a couple of notable exceptions he was able to hit targets lace out all game, and even pulled off a long, penetrating kick to setup a scoring opportunity late in the game as SA mounted a charge.
BluStreak
Norm Smith Medallist
I have only one problem with the noise around F/S and academies this year and that is that they may change the system this year after all the clubs have made arrangements for the upcoming draft period.
That is unfair, scandalous, unjust, inappropriate and a complete F U to all fans.
That is unfair, scandalous, unjust, inappropriate and a complete F U to all fans.
The whole season (not the clubs or footy, but all the peripherals stuff like changes to the umpiring, points system etc) has been a complete Shit Show
This really depends on what the changes are. For example removing the matching discount doesn't really impact clubs that traded back v those that didn't.
Whereas removing points value from picks beyond a certain number (without other provisions) certainly would be unfair on clubs who traded for any of those picks.
noobermensch
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I'm not a Carlton fan but I'm not sure that's entirely true.
I don't know 100% for sure, but lets say that its common practice to get your resources lined up for a F/S or Academy kid a year out from the draft (that does seem to be the way its done). You would use your resources with a points total ball park in mind. You might find yourself in a situation where you've already traded away all your picks, and now the AFL has changed the system and you need a lot more points than you were expecting with no resources left to trade.
Dramoth
Premium Platinum
Could be that they are also planning on doing live trades on ND day. If you don't have a pick, you have to trade a player out to get the pick. And you have to do it within 5 minutes.
- Mar 20, 2017
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In a nutshell that's the issue. Last year we traded out a third rounder and traded in three fourth rounders so that we had the points angle likely covered. We did that in the belief that the system wouldn't change.
We'll probably still get the campo brothers as it stands. Doesn’t mean that it isn’t absolutely terribly poor form for an organisation to change the rules after allowing its stakeholders to make important decisions in the belief that the rules wouldn't he changed.
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All fair points. But at what point do you need to put some restrictions on the Qld academies? When one club gets access to 4 first round draft picks in one draft? When Qld has more participating players than SA / WA?
I am 100% in favour of those academies but I also think what we saw in last year's draft is only the start and GC will get a raft of first round picks every year. Maybe cap that at 1 or 2 as an absolute max.
As inequitable as the FS rule is I can't remember a club getting 4 first round draft picks in one draft - and Syd+Brisbane get FS plus academy access as they've been around long enough. That is a massive advantage.
Absolutely, the discount rule for a player/s that you are entitled to a guaranteed pick if you choose to is one of the most idiotic things the AFL has applied…
The list is long, and common senses are in declining rapidly…
I don’t think anyone one would complain if they made the change with a 2/3 year notice period, but just putting clubs on notice and changing it in the same season is absolutely derelict of responsibility. As is all of the mid season decisions the AFL have made this year.
I hope this not a sign of things to come under the current administration but I suspect Gill jumped ship because he knew some controversial stuff like this ( and concussion lawsuits ) was inevitably coming
cody playing again today in the echuca seniors
I'll predict 3 goals and 22 touches.
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