Official Club Stuff Carlton Academy - Next Gen & Father/Son/Daughter Discussion
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The Old Dark Navy's
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The changes will make it a little better, but getting these top 5 picks from their academies when they only have to pay a late first rounder in some cases, is crazy.
Star father/son or NGA players don't come along too often so it isn't comparable. Although Brisbane's timing in getting the Ashcroft father/sons is bloody lucky.
Yes, it increases the talent pool but when the northern clubs take the cream off the top, while Vic clubs might grab their leftovers in the 4th round and beyond, it's hardly an even system.
We can only hope any early draft picks from Victoria want to come home from those clubs, but if they are flying, it won't happen.
BlueNath
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It's why I dont get the discount on top. I know the matching of bids discount is coming down from 20% to 10%, but why any at all? The reward is having priority access to that player. Get rid of the discount all-together, and with the update to the points system, at least the system is getting fairer.
This
It's always been the part of the system that makes no sense to me.
What's the point of having points applied to picks if any time they get used they are discounted anyway? Feels like a system undermining itself.
What's the point of having points applied to picks if any time they get used they are discounted anyway? Feels like a system undermining itself.
I think its there in principle to reward clubs for the work they put in developing those players and in f/s case, incentivising clubs to pick them. Good for the game (marketing) having f/s playing at dads club.
I dont think the points discount is a big deal to be honest. I get the argument for and against but more important the index itself is right. Which I think it is now.
I dont think the points discount is a big deal to be honest. I get the argument for and against but more important the index itself is right. Which I think it is now.
The Blue Weirdo
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The new system should increase the level of difficulty required to select several top talents in one draft.
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BlueNath
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I get what you are saying in theory. However, the reality is knowing you have priority access not only allows you to match bids. The other advantage is roughly knowing where that player may land and manipulating your draft hand to your clubs best advantage (essentially already creating a form of discount).
Im sorry, but I dont subscribe to the theory that by not offering a 10% discount that clubs will decide to not invest in academies and f/s prospects
100%. That recent draft where GC got 4 first rounders, they struggle to match more then 2 with the new system
Keeping the 10% was no doubt a token attempt to appease academy clubs, who were going to be made to pay a tonne more to match bids under the new system. Insignificant in the scheme of things, but a way to help get them on board.
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If it’s such a free hit, we should be doing more to work it.
There’s a fair amount of resources put into the academies and for what % actually make it to AFL draft night..
20% was for the manpower & coin invested and then the reward of drafting a local kid.
If a team finished top 8, or top 4 (GCFC related), it then diminishes the amount of top-liners they could have bid on.
+ the draft pick swaps were good for clubs in the middle rounds to upgrade their position in the draft.
I had no issue with the DVI or the discount before the change and think it is now skewed too far to get F/S’s in (should be a bonus) & Academy.
The discount is built into the system, and the points values.
Without a discount, you can’t match with a pick after the bid.
The new version of will be much fairer.
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Yep - new rules - just when we are about to bank some. AFL really wanted to make the change this year……..wonder why??
BlueNath
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I understand your sentiment. It does seem like the northern states need a helping hand as they are not traditional AFL heartland. Some see their larger academies as a means to help them out. But if equalisation is the goal, I just don't think academies is the answer to dealing with some of the inadequacies.
Let me explain myself so you can understand my perspective...
I am probably against popular opinion here, but I have always found it baffling that clubs manage their own academies anyway. I see developing talent as an AFL issue. My personal view is their should be streamlined elite pathways programs and the AFL should allocate talent to have access to a specific AFL club in their region (to experience a professional AFL environment etc. etc.). However, ultimately, all talent goes back into the draft pool.
With this approach, to help clubs like Gold Coast, I would allocate a DVI value each year (based on a PUBLISHED/PUBLIC equalisation formula). Vic clubs would get allocated 0 DVI value (unless struggling for X years etc.). GC might get a DVI equivalent to pick say 16, GWS 25, Sydney 30, Brisbane 44 (because premierships/success brings your DVI down). I think this is a fairer/equal way to spread talent.
Getting back to the real world though, I get your comment re "20% [discount] was for the manpower & coin invested". I just feel like with the vast areas for the Northern Academies in particular, they would be crazy not to invest heavily as their net gets cast far and wide. They are bound to find nuggets of gold. I would also argue that the AFL product as a whole has a larger say on attracting kids to the sport than any single club or academy initiative. But based on location, that kid currently ends up in an academy instead.
Im all for providing a means to help clubs with some disadvantages (non-heartland regions, lower player retention [go-home factor], etc.), I just think it should be done in a more controlled/equal way by the AFL. The academies has put too much power in some clubs hands and they are getting too much advantage from it IMO.
I should point out some hypocrisy on my behalf. I am a traditionalist when it comes to father sons(/daughters). I love the f/s system. On one hand I say I want all talent to go into the pool with equal access for all when it comes to academies. So I admit my thoughts are probably a little biased (jealousy maybe?), because I want f/s to never change.
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BlueNath
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I guess we will just have to wait and see how the new version plays out. It will certainly be fairer.
Im not sure what you mean by "Without a discount, you can’t match with a pick after the bid" though? Depending on where the bid comes in and how far away your next pick is, it is most likely you have to use a second pick anyway... even with the old 20% discount.
The Blue Weirdo
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I'm not sure about the fine details. But YES, the AFL should be the sole financier of all the academies, and the talent should enter the national draft(available to all clubs).
With some benefits going to struggling northern clubs, when required. Why should northern talent be required to remain in their state of origin?
It’s to keep the local’s local (poster boys ala Heeney & get the next generation/s through playing AFL under the same pathway) but also you had clubs ravaging GCFC for instance with the b/s go-home factor (or just pillaging) that does not apply when a home-grown product. Also helps with boosting the local supporter base feel, especially with Gold Coast and also NT / Darwin push.
AFL clubs said the same to the GCFC re: retention / get locals and then kicked up to change the rules when they grabbed 4 local draftees in ‘23. Very precious. GCFC haven’t even played finals yet…and if/when they do their academy access reduces.
The Blue Weirdo
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Okay, but Sydney have only NOT been finalists 5 times in the last 28 years.
Perhaps their extra benefits should be extinguished to allow the real northern battlers to experience finals footy.
Wasn’t aimed at us, but with the exception of the northern clubs, we will absolutely be the hardest hit in the near future.
Alas, it looks that way.
For years we haven't got anything from our NGA and our F/S's haven't had the same effect that others have had. Waite was much better than expected at U18 level, Jack Silvagni has been solid. Not much from the rest, which is a pity. And now that we have some kids on the horizon, it becomes more difficult.
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RPCB
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Alas, it looks that way.
For years we haven't got anything from our NGA and our F/S's haven't had the same effect that others have had. Waite was much better than expected at U18 level, Jack Silvagni has been solid. Not much from the rest, which is a pity. And now that we have some kids on the horizon, it becomes more difficult.
Every FA/NGA that we want to draft, we will draft. There is no danger of not being able to draft Cody Walker for example.
That is actually very debatable.
This season we have Jack Ison, Tyson Gresham and Harry Dean as real prospects. All are in their respective Metro and Country summer train on squads, so generally speaking are in the country’s top 100 prospects already. If all have prominent seasons, they could push in to second round calculations (at worst). With no first rounder, we could (hopefully) have the last pick in the second round to match THREE bids.
As for those who would casually suggest trading in future picks. Assuming Cody Walker attracts a top three pick, it will take SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than a late first rounder to match at the ‘26 draft.
Yes, we will be able to trade picks two years in advance, but that will not necessarily be a cure all. The rule changes will (potentially) affect us much more than people expect. The northern academy numbers at the pointy end will also dry up. One top 10 bid will virtually wipe out a club’s draft hand with the exception of late picks.
The changes have not been “minimal” the reduction from 20% to 10% discount and significant changes to the draft index will make considerable changes to the landscape.
I suspect Nick Austin will have a couple of candidates in each coming year to trade out for draft capital. Kennedy and Owies level trades may become a common thing (which I find sad, but inevitable)
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