Banter Carlton is better in 2024. Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[Fadge]

Shock horror - you think the players in the team you support are better than opposition? If I did the same list I'd probably end up similar the other way.

Let's try and use a more objective measure - the SI AFL player rankings (which compares players relative to position and across a range of measures) and see how it compares. Combined list

Top 10 - let's call these the A-graders
1. Cripps (Carl)
2. Daicos (Coll)
3. Houston (Coll)
4. Curnow (Carl)
5. Walsh (Carl)
6. Crisp (Coll)
7. Moore (Coll)
8. Weitering (Carl)
9. De Goey (Coll)
10. Hewett (Carl)
Top 10 is 5/5, with Houston obviously not having played a game but still ranking very high

Next 10 - lets call these the B+ players
11. Pendlebury (Coll)
12. Newman (Carl)
13. McKay (Carl)
14. Cameron (Coll)
15. J Daicos (Coll)
16. Saad (Carl)
17. De Koning (Carl)
18. E Hollands (Carl)
19. Cerra (Carl)
20. Howe (Coll)
Next 10 = 6x Carlton, 4x Collingwood

Next 10 is your solid B-graders
21. Acres (Carl)
22. Schultz (Coll)
23. Lipinski (Coll)
24. Sidebottom (Coll)
25. Maynard (Coll)
26. Quaynor (Coll)
27. Pittonet (Carl)
28. Perryman (Coll)
29. Elliott (Coll)
30. McGovern (Carl)
This set is 3x Carlton, 7x Collingwood and represents a 2024 weak spot for Carlton. This is where Docherty would likely be if fit, same with Williams, and ideally Martin (who is now gone from the list). It's still pretty even overall though

Next 10 = C+ players (solid role guys - note Kennedy would have been 31, Noble would have been 36
31. Williams (Carl)
32. Mihocek (Coll)
33. Docherty (Carl)
34. Mitchell (Coll)
35. Lachie Fogarty (Carl)
36. Kemp (Carl)
37. Hoskin-Elliott (Coll)
38. Young (Carl)
39. Cox (Coll)
40. Frampton (Coll)
Again, it is 5xCollingwood and 5x Carlton. Very even in this category

Next 10 = C-graders (bottom 6 most weeks, but fairly likely to play - Richards would be 45, )
41. Hill (Coll)
42. Cincotta (Carl)
43. McCreery (Coll)
44. Silvagni (Carl)
45. Haynes (Carl)
46. McStay (Coll)
47. Markov (Coll)
48. Cottrell (Carl)
49. Hollands (Carl)
50. Fantasia (Carl)

In this category we go 6x Carlton and 4x Collingwood. So if you go all the way to best 50 combined- ie: the players likely to play each week give or take an injury or two - we land in exactly the same spot - 25 players on each list. That actually excludes Carlton's pick 3, who will likely slot in there somewhere

Even going to the next level of depth (likely to play quite a bit due to injury)
51. Dean (Coll)
52. Harrison (Coll)
53. Cowan (Carl)
54. Boyd (Carl)
55. Carroll (Carl)
56. Sullivan (Coll)
57. Binns (Carl)
58. Motlop (Carl)
59. Carmichael (Coll)
60. McRae (Coll)
We're still at 5-5 and the lists are looking pretty comparable

Basically, if you compare the lists with some attempt at objectivity they line up... very closely. Which isn't surprising because the teams finished the season equal and separated by %. You can make a case that Carlton are slightly ahead with injury dropping a few down the list, but could make an equal case that Collingwood had a 'down' year post-premiership.

You have absolutely NFI.

Let's start with McStay, Hill and McCreery at the same level as Haynes, O. Hollands, Fantasia and Silvagni.

Oh boy.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

If I were picking a squad for 2025, here is the order of players I would pick from the respective teams, based on expected performance, durability, leadership and versatility:
View attachment 2148086

I went down to Collingwood's 23rd player, and worked out how many Carlton players I would pick ahead of who would be in Collingwood's best team.

One of these two teams has the list quality and depth to potentially be a premiership contender in 2025, and the other doesn't.

This is genuinely ****ing hilarious.

Never change, Fadge.

 

[Fadge]

You also forgot JSOS & O Hollands who are just as good as WHE, Cox & Lipinski. And Mitchell? Come on man. Durable? Be lucky to get back on a park.

No, they are not.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

You blokes finished 9th this year and genuinely think you’re like the USA dream team of footy or something.

It’s absolutely delusional.

 

[Fadge]

If we don't get you guys twice next season I will eat a hat. The AFL will never change that. Far too much $ out the door for that to happen.
I for one seriously hope that is the case coz I want no excuses next year, after we absolutely smash you, like "oh yeah we only got to play you once. If we'd played ya twice we would've won the 2nd one"

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'We're gonna smash you next year...'

Checks calendar.

Yep, it's October.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

He’s not gunna sleep with you mate.

No sexual interest. I don't want to cut Worms lunch.

I just appreciate him for the discernment, knowledge and taste he displays with regards all things Carlton. You could learn a lot from him.
For example, while everyone, including me were saying Carlton were genuine contenders in June this year, Fadge the oracle was adamant that you were trash and would shit your pants in the second half of the year..... Guy knows his stuff!

 

[Fadge]

Lol. You are being serious with this. Did Collingwood finish top 4 and Carlton bottom 4 in 2024 ? Most biased list I think I have ever come across in this thread.
To start with, you have a dual brownlow medalist not even in the top spot. Can't get any more biased than that

You point out one thing in an attempt to display my bias, and you go with the fact I have Daicos ahead of Cripps?

 

[Fadge]

You blokes finished 9th this year and genuinely think you’re like the USA dream team of footy or something.

It’s absolutely delusional.

Not at all.

We're just comfortably ahead of Carlton.

Pies had a down year in 2024 for many reasons, whilst Carlton ended where they should have - somewhere mid table.

 

[Fadge]

Walsh received more Coaches votes and Brownlow votes than any Collingwood player this season despite having a poor year by his standards.

Say that again?

 

[Fadge]

Fingers crossed we get 33 games at the MCG in 2025

One game for each player in your best 22?

 

[Scritchyscroony]

We can see that you're a disciple mate.

I doff my hat to his wisdom....
and his unparalleled ability to break Carlton posters.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Not at all.

We're just comfortably ahead of Carlton.

Pies had a down year in 2024 for many reasons, whilst Carlton ended where they should have - somewhere mid table.

Why can you only manage to beat us by a few points?

Rd21, we have 14 on the injury list, Pendles 400th and you win by just 3 points via a McGovern shank.

You’re not that good lol.

 

[Fadge]

Pendlebury equal with DeKoning?

Let's just start with this one.

Nominate a season - any single season - that De Koning has outperformed Pendlebury in?

And that's before we consider the on-field leadership that Pendlebury offers.

Go.

 

[Captivating]

Yep. Cripps turns 30. Rest of the team don't tho which allows the youngsters to take over in the future whereas you guys are relying on the 1 youngster now with f all coming through and the old boys off the cliff

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Carlton currently have 13 players under 23, Pies have 12. Draftguru rates them all as either C or D except for 2, N Daicos (rated A) and Elijah Hollands (rated B).

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Let's just start with this one.

Nominate a season - any single season - that De Koning has outperformed Pendlebury in?

And that's before we consider the on-field leadership that Pendlebury offers.

Go.

2024.

If we're considering on field leadership surely Cripps would be a clear standout at 1 over Squibby?

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Let's just start with this one.

Nominate a season - any single season - that De Koning has outperformed Pendlebury in?

And that's before we consider the on-field leadership that Pendlebury offers.

Go.

You live in the past so much it’s embarrassing.

You’re still going on about shit from 6-7 years ago.

Mitchell won his Brownlow in 2018

Cox kicked his little party goals in 2018

Pendlebury is well past his best, and ask
any sane footy fan who they’d want on their team for 2025, they’re choosing TDK. But wait.. because pendles was a star in the mid 2000’s, he’s better!

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Say that again?

Other than Nicky it should have said

 

[Fadge]

Why can you only manage to beat us by a few points?

Rd21, we have 14 on the injury list, Pendles 400th and you win by just 3 points via a McGovern shank.

You’re not that good lol.

And of course the Pies were at absolutely full strength that night, were firing on all cylinders, and couldn't have played any better...

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Houston, a half back flanker ahead of McKay, an All Australian 50-goal year fwd

 

[CarmenSandiego]

And of course the Pies were at absolutely full strength that night, were firing on all cylinders, and couldn't have played any better...

Yeah man that Mcreery injury really killed ya.

 

[Fadge]

You live in the past so much it’s embarrassing.

You’re still going on about shit from 6-7 years ago.

Mitchell won his Brownlow in 2018

Cox kicked his little party goals in 2018

Pendlebury is well past his best, and ask
any sane footy fan who they’d want on their team for 2025, they’re choosing TDK. But wait.. because pendles was a star in the mid 2000’s, he’s better!

You can't nominate a season in which De Koning has outperformed Pendlebury, but 'next year' will be different...

Do you not consider on-field leadership important?

And Pendlebury has been a star all of his career, thank you.

And if I were rating Mitchell and Cox on their 2018 form, both would have been much higher. They're both still comfortably better than many Carlton players on your list. Mitchell was 4th in Collingwood's best and fairest in a premiership year, and was one of our best four players in that Grand Final. 13 months ago.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

You can't nominate a season in which De Koning has outperformed Pendlebury, but 'next year' will be different...

Do you not consider on-field leadership important?

And Pendlebury has been a star all of his career, thank you.

You’re hiding behind De Konings injury this year to try and make a ‘gotcha’.

Everyone can see it and it’s quite pathetic.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

George Hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

has outperformed Harley Reid every year, so for 2025, I would rather Hewett!!

 

[Fadge]

Houston, a half back flanker ahead of McKay, an All Australian 50-goal year fwd

So you reference McKay's All-Australian, but Houston is just a 'half back flanker'?

Don't All-Australians count for backmen?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

1 - Cripps
2 - N.Daicos
3 - Curnow
4 - Weitering
5 - Walsh
6 - Houston
7 - Degoey
8 - McKay
9 - Dekoning
10 - Cameron

11 - J.Daicos
12 - Crisp
13 - Newman
14 - Elliot
15 - Saad
16 - Maynard
17 - Mihocek
18 - Cerra
19 - Pendlebury
20 - Quaynor

21 - Acres
22 - E.Hollands
23 - Hill
24 - Perryman
25 - Hewett
26 - Schultz
27 - Sidebottom
28 - Howe
29 - Docherty
30 - McSpud

31 - McGovern
32 - Mitchell
33 - Williams
34 - Pittonet
35 - Fogarty
36 - Lipinski
37 - Hoskin-Elliot
38 - McCreery
39 - Silvagni
40 - Kemp
41 - Boyd
42 - Cottrell
43 - Cincotta

44 - Cox