Banter Carlton is better in 2024. Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[Ctracks]

29 in April mate but he has been coached by Ken Hinkley for 10 years so lets even it out at 45.

29 years old
April

 

[Worm4]

Do I really need to repeat myself for the 16th time?

Does it specify 12 players over the age of 30 ? ( coz I don't think it's ever been done before so it would require breaking new ground )

 

[Fadge]

29 years old
April

Owen 2 is a vast improvement from Owen 60 though....

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

This age profile really peaked at 5th on the ladder?
This list has Elijah Hollands in its top 10 players?

Crikey

What seriously went wrong at Carlton?

Elijah Hollands was fantastic this year. 18 touches and almost a goal a game playing half forward... Far better than wide load Schultz that's for sure.

Where on Collingwoods list would Schultzy boy rank?

 

[Worm4]

Do I really need to repeat myself for the 16th time?

When you dribble as much as you do, perhaps maybe you need to repeat yourself

 

[Worm4]

Elijah Hollands was fantastic this year. 18 touches and almost a goal a game playing half forward... Far better than wide load Schultz that's for sure.

Where on Collingwoods list would Schultzy boy rank?

They'll be calling him Schitz by mid season ( if they haven't started already)

 

[CarmenSandiego]

I think you will be contending for the bottom half of the 8 only to be honest.
Why?
:
Your youth is unexciting. Don't see any future A graders there. You rely heavily on a core of veterans at or near 30.

Meanwhile, yours is even worse. Besides Daicos, there is nothing there, absolutely nothing. You rely heavily on a core of veterans at or near 32yo.

You've mortgaged everything on pick 3 this year. The father sons can't be expected to make meaningful impacts before the likes of Cripps retire.

You've mortgaged everything on Dan Houston this year. F/S McGuane can't be expected to make meaningful impacts before the likes of Sidey, Pendles, Cox, Elliott, Howe, Mitchell etc reitre.

You've lost your best small forward and a decent workhorse midfielder for next year with only a pick 3 to replace them.

You lost a gun small fwd (Ginnivan) and replaced him with an overpaid, underperforming, inferior version which cost you twice the salary & currency. You also lost 2x workhorse depth players and replace them with a project midfielder Perryman and Houston.

Your best key forward goes missing in finals.

You didn't make the finals - also not sure how Curnows finals performances effect where we finish on the ladder? H&A season is before the finals.

Your champion mid who carries the team on his shoulders is turning 30 and has A LOT of mileage on the body.

Your champion mid is 22yo and the entire game-day squad relies on him, any injury, drop in form or simply tagged out is a HUGE concern - also Cripps just won a Brownlow (saw him the other day btw, looking fit af).

You are still lacking a quality second KPD.

You are still lacking any quality KPF.

Saad looks cooked.

Mitchell (& everyone else) looks cooked.

This is the thing, I would take your arguments somewhat seriously, honestly - I really would. Some of them have merit. But you lose every bit of credibility when the person reading it realizes how little awareness the author has on their own club.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Embarrassing post from you.
We are talking about next year right.
So next year;
Cripps 30
Curnow 28
Weitering 27
McKay 27
Newman 32
Hewett 29
Saad 31
Pittonet 29
McGovern 30
Acres 29

The only players considered core to your group who are under 27 are Cera, TDK and Walsh. In what dimension of space and time can Elijah Hollands be considered a core player?

So as I said.... Your core group in 2025 is at or nearing 30. Hope this assists your understanding of your teams age profile.

Walsh TDK, Cerra and Hollands sounds like a pretty handy core under 27 if I'm honest. Pies have Daicos and then SFA.

 

[adammania9]

You look at that age demographic and come to the conclusion that Carlton have peaked?

Absolutely

Cripps - 2x Brownlow winner and currently the best player in the game
Curnow - 2x Coleman medallist and the best forward in the H&A seasons
McKay - 1x Coleman medallist and consistently great key forward
Weitering - finally achieved AA following his best season at his peak
Walsh - has played his best footy already. His current level seems the go for the future.
Saad - played his best footy
Docherty - played his best footy
McGovern - played his best footy
Cerra - injury prone and probably playing his best footy

Besides De Koning and pick 3, who is elevating this team from 8th to premiership contention? If the top 5 on that list continue to play at their remarkable levels for another 2-3 years, Carlton will likely continue to coast at around the 5-8 range on the ladder

 

[Fadge]

When you dribble as much as you do, perhaps maybe you need to repeat yourself

I'm going to start to charge for my list analysis going forward.

No more free advice for Carlton, given how accurate I've been for the past 15 years...

 

[Fadge]

Walsh TDK and Cerra sounds like a pretty handy core under 27 if I'm honest. Pies have Daicos and then SFA

Great durability across that trio.

Can't see how you won't get 5 flags out of them...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'm going to start to charge for my list analysis going forward.

No more free advice for Carlton, given how accurate I've been for the past 15 years...

16th?

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Did you know that Geelong had 10 players over 30 in the 2022 GF, average age 28 years 206 days? Weird fixation you're developing Wormy

I reckon you guys are worse with the "Cripps is almost 30" argument.

I've said it several times, 30yo is fine in AFL for most players these days, longevity, sport science etc.

32-33yo is where it gets hairy, which is a fair chunk of Collingwoods important players.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Great duality across that trio.

Can't see how you won't get 5 flags out of them...

Fudge who do the Pies have coming through to keep them from bottoming out as hard as the Tigers in a couple years?

And no "history would suggest" is not an answer... There is nobody on your list below 23 who's worth a grain of salt right now outside of Squibby

 

[adammania9]

Elijah Hollands was fantastic this year. 18 touches and almost a goal a game playing half forward... Far better than wide load Schultz that's for sure.

Where on Collingwoods list would Schultzy boy rank?

Well Schultz isn't in our top 10 players and isn't close so I'm struggling to see the relevance in comparing. They also play clearly different roles.

Hollands was a fair way off a goal a game by the way. It would have taken a 6 goal haul against Brisbane in the final to get him there. Hollands is a budget De Goey.

 

[Worm4]

I'm going to start to charge for my list analysis going forward.

No more free advice for Carlton, given how accurate I've been for the past 15 years...

Do you often self congratulate yourself on bigfooty , not just in this thread either ? That circle is getting rather big - are you sure you have enough malt-o-milks for the occasion ?

 

[Scritchyscroony]

You are talking about people born in 1985/86 . They would have been 10 years old.
FMD

Wtf?
I think you've been to too many Diddy parties Worm.
A 33 year old would be 3.5 years old the last time Carlton won a flag ( which was 29 years ago in case you forgot).

 

[Captivating]

you know our baby crisis will end if Carlton win a premiership

 

[Captivating]

Lygon St 18 months after the next Carlton flag

 

[Fadge]

Fudge who do the Pies have coming through to keep them from bottoming out as hard as the Tigers in a couple years?

And no "history would suggest" is not an answer... There is nobody on your list below 23 who's worth a grain of salt right now outside of Squibby

The Pies don't play the 'potential is better than proven ability' card.

The Pies were apparently cooked after 2021, and since then have added to our list:
Houston
Hill
Mitchell
McStay
Perryman
Lipinski
Schultz
Markov
Frampton

Five of whom have played important roles in our premiership team, another who was injured for that Grand Final but crucial in the two lead up finals, and the other 3 will be important cogs of our next premiership tilt.

But, but, but... 'under 23' (of which Carlton have nothing of note anyway)!

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Meanwhile, yours is even worse. Besides Daicos, there is nothing there, absolutely nothing. You rely heavily on a core of veterans at or near 32yo.



You've mortgaged everything on Dan Houston this year. F/S McGuane can't be expected to make meaningful impacts before the likes of Sidey, Pendles, Cox, Elliott, Howe, Mitchell etc reitre.



You lost a gun small fwd (Ginnivan) and replaced him with an overpaid, underperforming, inferior version which cost you twice the salary & currency. You also lost 2x workhorse depth players and replace them with a project midfielder Perryman and Houston.



You didn't make the finals - also not sure how Curnows finals performances effect where we finish on the ladder? H&A season is before the finals.



Your champion mid is 22yo and the entire game-day squad relies on him, any injury, drop in form or simply tagged out is a HUGE concern - also Cripps just won a Brownlow (saw him the other day btw, looking fit af).



You are still lacking any quality KPF.



Mitchell (& everyone else) looks cooked.

This is the thing, I would take your arguments somewhat seriously, honestly - I really would. Some of them have merit. But you lose every bit of credibility when the person reading it realizes how little awareness the author has on their own club.

You refute my points about Carlton with attacks on Collingwood. That doesn't work. It's called deflection...
I know hearing the truth about where Carlton is at must be painful. But you need to be strong to overcome all the self delusion you guys have cocooned yourselves in. I'm trying to help you out.

 

[Worm4]

Wtf?
I think you've been to too many Diddy parties Worm.
A 33 year old would be 3.5 years old the last time Carlton won a flag ( which was 29 years ago in case you forgot).

The median age in Australia is 38.5.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Absolutely

Cripps - 2x Brownlow winner and currently the best player in the game
Curnow - 2x Coleman medallist and the best forward in the H&A seasons
McKay - 1x Coleman medallist and consistently great key forward
Weitering - finally achieved AA following his best season at his peak
Walsh - has played his best footy already. His current level seems the go for the future.
Saad - played his best footy
Docherty - played his best footy
McGovern - played his best footy
Cerra - injury prone and probably playing his best footy

Besides De Koning and pick 3, who is elevating this team from 8th to premiership contention? If the top 5 on that list continue to play at their remarkable levels for another 2-3 years, Carlton will likely continue to coast at around the 5-8 range on the ladder

Harsh assessment but maybe kinda fair. To answer your question:

• Still think Walsh gets back to his best.
• Curnow, honestly he had a rubbish year. Was injured for the 2nd half of it and played like a potato... I expect improvement.
• The others, you're probably right, they're unlikely to get much better at this stage of their career (I hope you apply the same logic to your own players).

So yes, we do need players (who aren't our stars) to elevate us from 8th to Premiership contention, do you think those players would've been Owies & Kennedy? Surely not. In my eyes, the blokes who are best 22 that really need to step up & if they do, we should improve are:

TDK
E Hollands
O Hollands
Cottrell
Moir
Motlop
Cowan
Kemp
Pick 3

Then getting some guys back like Silvagni (apparently playing in defence) & Docherty should see us improve.

But really, who knows. Voss coached like shit this year and if he's making the same mistakes then doesn't matter who we draft, trade or play - wouldn't surprise me if we stagnated, which isn't ideal, but I can see it. The good thing is we have a bit more time up our sleeve than the Pies, they've got a 1-year window to play with & its shutting quite quickly already.

 

[adammania9]

Fudge who do the Pies have coming through to keep them from bottoming out as hard as the Tigers in a couple years?

And no "history would suggest" is not an answer... There is nobody on your list below 23 who's worth a grain of salt right now outside of Squibby

Let's disregard clear patterns and historical trends in favour of clear speculation that everything that can go wrong will go wrong

You're right unfortunately, Walshy. Collingwood will probably bottom out worse than Richmond. Every single player acquisition will be a bust and every single veteran will retire without being replaced by means of good drafting or use of free agency and trading. In 2027, Collingwood will trade the Daicos boys to stock up with draft picks.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The Pies don't play the 'potential is better than proven ability' card.

The Pies were apparently cooked after 2021, and since then have added to our list:
Houston
Hill
Mitchell
McStay
Perryman
Lipinski
Schultz
Markov
Frampton

Five of whom have played important roles in our premiership team, another who was injured for that Grand Final but crucial in the two lead up finals, and the other 3 will be important cogs of our next premiership tilt.

But, but, but... 'under 23' (of which Carlton have nothing of note anyway)!

Other than Houston and Hill that line up is just spud after spud after spud.

Schultz being the biggest howler obviously.