Preview Changes and Discussion - Round 8 - Hawthorn v St Kilda

[hawkheart]

Until I see the Hawks put together four solid quarters, every game seems like a danger game, the Saints especially. Slogfest in cold and wet totally suits a team desperate to get a win on the board. We'll have to be at our best to beat them. Hopefully our longer break will be telling in the last.

 

[BlackByrd]

SEN reporting Cyril Rioli will miss another week.

Suckers not available for the 10th time.

Renouf is also in doubt.

Hale in for Renouf could be the only change afterall.

Damn.

Will be good to see Hale back though. If we're going to win i think he's going to have to play a big role come Sunday.

 

[FRALDO]

TO echo Snibs's disagreement in what u said, Ellis won't ever make clangers as long as he's only chipping it sideways and backwards to unmarked, stationary players.

He does opt for the short option, and probably too often. But when you break our game down this is how we are coached to move the ball out of defense, hense hes doing what hes told to do. Id love to see him run and carry the ball with a raking long book ala D.Thomas, but he plays through the backline or as a defensive midfielder.

He may not have bulked up or shown huge statistical improvements since the 08 year so I understand the frustration surrounding him from some groups. He does have class and an elite football brain and we saw this in 08 granny. At this stage, I would think theres a few names to load the gun up with before him.

 

[under achievers]

conditons are going to be cold and wet and the ball will be on the ground which will suit st kilda Rugby style where they have the whole team in the middle.

A few people seem to be concerned about the weather and thinking that suits St Kilda. To be honest, i think its the other way around.

With the exception of the third quarter against Melbourne, the game against Richmond seemed to be the best i've seen from us so far this year. And that form looks pretty good now the way Richmond have been playing since.

Maybe some wet weather might force us to open up the game plan a little a play with a bit more freedom.

The biggest worry for me is that the saints basically have nothing to lose now which makes them a very dangerous team to come up against.

Only one forced change for mine this week.

In: Hale
Out: Renouf

 

[hodge#15]

He does opt for the short option, and probably too often. But when you break our game down this is how we are coached to move the ball out of defense, hense hes doing what hes told to do. Id love to see him run and carry the ball with a raking long book ala D.Thomas, but he plays through the backline or as a defensive midfielder.

He may not have bulked up or shown huge statistical improvements since the 08 year so I understand the frustration surrounding him from some groups. He does have class and an elite football brain and we saw this in 08 granny. At this stage, I would think theres a few names to load the gun up with before him.

Posters like you have to stop living off 2008. Ellis is not in the best 22 and if it wasnt for a few lucky bounces he would have had a terrible grandfinal day with many turnovers. His kicking is poor, and i odnt know what class you are talking about. The game is past him and going forward he shouldn't be in our 22.

I dont know how many times this has to be said.

 

[The Kipster]

Luke Lowden in

 

[Hodgepodge]

Posters like you have to stop living off 2008. Ellis is not in the best 22 and if it wasnt for a few lucky bounces he would have had a terrible grandfinal day with many turnovers. His kicking is poor, and i odnt know what class you are talking about. The game is past him and going forward he shouldn't be in our 22.

I dont know how many times this has to be said.

His Grand Final game was very good, and it has little to do with luck.

Forget that Ellis went Pick 3, he's shown that he's in our best 22 on just about every occasion this year, the exception being the West Coast game and the Geelong game where he was a sub.

Was very good against Port Adelaide running to space to be a short marking option, and deserves a spot in Round 7.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Luke Lowden in

I would like to see it, and now's his chance - against the Saints who are playing another young ruckman in McEvoy.

 

[Snoref]

A few people seem to be concerned about the weather and thinking that suits St Kilda. To be honest, i think its the other way around.

With the exception of the third quarter against Melbourne, the game against Richmond seemed to be the best i've seen from us so far this year. And that form looks pretty good now the way Richmond have been playing since.

Maybe some wet weather might force us to open up the game plan a little a play with a bit more freedom.

The biggest worry for me is that the saints basically have nothing to lose now which makes them a very dangerous team to come up against.

Only one forced change for mine this week.

In: Hale
Out: Renouf

I agree, especially if it's wet we might have the advantage seeing as the Saints have a shorter recovery time than us. So a wet game you might find they will be fading late...

 

[FRALDO]

Posters like you have to stop living off 2008. Ellis is not in the best 22 and if it wasnt for a few lucky bounces he would have had a terrible grandfinal day with many turnovers. His kicking is poor, and i odnt know what class you are talking about. The game is past him and going forward he shouldn't be in our 22.

I dont know how many times this has to be said.

Terrible rebuttal. hes 23 years old and would still be getting a game in atleast 15 of the current teams with Collingwood and maybe Geelong the only ones he might be stiff finding a possie.

go to the game on saturday and watch his output. He may not chase the ball like others but i assure you he will be in the right place where Big Al wants him more often than not.

 

[FRALDO]

I would like to see it, and now's his chance - against the Saints who are playing another young ruckman in McEvoy.

far too Risky for mine. McEnvoy might be young but he can play, he'll be a top 4-5 ruckmen over the next couple of years we dont need tearing lowden a new one just yet.

I liked Roughead in the ruck last week and he seemed to enjoy the responsibility and new role. I thought we were screwed when hale was ommited late, however it seemed to play out in our favour, even when Renouf was subbed.

I know we cant keep running with the bandaid apporach to ruck problems. Maybe throwing him or Bailey in the deep end needs to be done over the next month or so to see if they can swim. But the result we want from this weekend is 4 points. and if we are serious about this there will be no playing lowden this week.

 

[Taskmaster]

Terrible rebuttal. hes 23 years old and would still be getting a game in atleast 15 of the current teams with Collingwood and maybe Geelong the only ones he might be stiff finding a possie.

go to the game on saturday and watch his output. He may not chase the ball like others but i assure you he will be in the right place where Big Al wants him more often than not.

Dont know what game you are going to on Saturday, but it wont be Haw Vs Stk.

But maybe I will go to the Box Hill V Sandringham game on sat and see Ellis run around trying to get a kick and get into all the right places that Big Al wants him in, only to stuff up the kick or handball and create a turnover!

 

[realhawk]

SEN reporting Cyril Rioli will miss another week.

Suckers not available for the 10th time.

Renouf is also in doubt.

Hale in for Renouf could be the only change afterall.

There goes the match, without Cryil we are in trouble, sure we can beat the weak sides like Port, rich and melb when we have blokes like cryil out, but the saints looked good in losing to carlton the other night, looks like " just a bit of soreness" will end up being a 4 week injury just like mitchell last year, will the club just call a spade a spade for once.

 

[FRALDO]

Dont know what game you are going to on Saturday, but it wont be Haw Vs Stk.

But maybe I will go to the Box Hill V Sandringham game on sat and see Ellis run around trying to get a kick and get into all the right places that Big Al wants him in, only to stuff up the kick or handball and create a turnover!

Rash, uncalled for and nothing short of untrue.

I did mean Sunday silly me and much apologies. There is a clear a rift on this between anti and pro Ellis on this board and I really dont understand why. If hes running around Saturday so be it, however I will be astounded if he gets ommited based on last weeks effort.

I also get to go on Sunday so I will be sure to have the radar firmly on him and will report back next week as there must be some aspects to his game I have missed to generate so much angst on this board.

 

[lickmerocks]

Terrible rebuttal. hes 23 years old and would still be getting a game in atleast 15 of the current teams with Collingwood and maybe Geelong the only ones he might be stiff finding a possie.

go to the game on saturday and watch his output. He may not chase the ball like others but i assure you he will be in the right place where Big Al wants him more often than not.

Are you a mate of Xaviers?

lacks leg speed.
cant kick over a jam tin.
cant kick a goal to save himself.
sets up hospital passes.

X has been extremely lucky along with a couple of others that they played in 08 becuase they should be at City Oval if we were fair dinkum.

 

[Hodginator]

Are you a mate of Xaviers?

lacks leg speed.
cant kick over a jam tin.
cant kick a goal to save himself.
sets up hospital passes.

X has been extremely lucky along with a couple of others that they played in 08 becuase they should be at City Oval if we were fair dinkum.

This is true. His dinky little kicks do my head in

 

[Taskmaster]

Are you a mate of Xaviers?

lacks leg speed.
cant kick over a jam tin.
cant kick a goal to save himself.
sets up hospital passes.

X has been extremely lucky along with a couple of others that they played in 08 becuase they should be at City Oval if we were fair dinkum.

Exactly!

He has done nothing over the last 2 years to suggest he should be in the best 22. Personally, I cringe when he goes near the footy. 20% ofthe time he might hit a target or do something well, but the other 80%, well lets say is pretty poor for AFL standard.

 

[The Kipster]

far too Risky for mine. McEnvoy might be young but he can play, he'll be a top 4-5 ruckmen over the next couple of years we dont need tearing lowden a new one just yet.
.

see I from my reports he was close last year and has improved again thus far this year, my point is why not let him have a crack? McEnvoy is still young and is far from Jolly or Jamar...now is the time to let him have a go as our rucks are struggling for fitness...

Rough is good in the ruck but do we want to risk him every game, knowing that at some stage a massive whack in his knee could spell disaster?

 

[hodge#15]

Terrible rebuttal. hes 23 years old and would still be getting a game in atleast 15 of the current teams with Collingwood and maybe Geelong the only ones he might be stiff finding a possie.

go to the game on saturday and watch his output. He may not chase the ball like others but i assure you he will be in the right place where Big Al wants him more often than not.

Fraldo mate you've gotta be kidding yourself... this comment displays very little knowledge of football outside Hawthorn and complete ignorance.

I've watched all but one hawthorn game this year and for those that believe Ellis deserves his spot in this team are kidding themselves. Ellis lacks the size and speed to be a solid midfielder.. when he recieves or gets the ball he always has to rush before hes pushed off the ball tackled as he doesnt have the pace to get away like other players of his frame.. Smith..even though they are differnt players.. I know..
His loolypop kicks are crap and just lacks physical presence. I dont know how he got a game this year in the first place, its ridiculous. He doesnt have the size or pace to defend small forwardss and even mids resting int he forward line.

I reckon I could out mark him one on one atleast 6/10 times.

he has a high disposal rate because he kicks backwards and sideways 15 metres everytime he gets the bloody ball.

His form up until now from 2008 has sucked balls to be honest

 

[Henry Jr]

Are you a mate of Xaviers?

lacks leg speed.
cant kick over a jam tin.
cant kick a goal to save himself.
sets up hospital passes.

X has been extremely lucky along with a couple of others that they played in 08 becuase they should be at City Oval if we were fair dinkum.

Does being quicker than Franklin over 20m count?

 

[robs_drunk]

Ellis might not be playing ground breaking footy but you tell me who should have his spot in front of him?

Two blokes who are currently playing are worse then him and play the same position style, Ladson and WhiteX.

There output this year should have them scratching it out in the two's well before you drop Ellis.

 

[satan1]

Ellis might not be playing ground breaking footy but you tell me who should have his spot in front of him?

Two blokes who are currently playing are worse then him and play the same position style, Ladson and WhiteX.

There output this year should have them scratching it out in the two's well before you drop Ellis.

WhiteX has barely played, Ladson was good the first few but isn't going too well I agree. But from the Port Adelaide game you need to find room for Suckling, Savage (sub), Rioli and Osborne all of which would be ahead of Ellis for mine and you only have 2 scapegoats ahead of him.

I think Ellis needs a stint in the Magoos, I would like to see him make a HFF his own, get him into a more attacking mindset. His natural kick is perfect for hitting buddy on the lead, it's the Special K foot pass for buddies sore thumbs

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I want us to persist with Ellis, even at the expense of someone more 'worthy' (well in BigFooty's eyes) or a place. He's clearly shown his ability in the past, but it seems like he just doesn't have any confidence ATM.

 

[robs_drunk]

But from the Port Adelaide game you need to find room for Suckling, Savage (sub), Rioli and Osborne all of which would be ahead of Ellis for mine and you only have 2 scapegoats ahead of him.

Well one Savage got a game so you don't need to find him a place only change the sub may be birchall's turn, suckling if fit comes straight in for either Murphy or Popuolo I'd say Murphy and give popuolo a shot at milne, rioli get's ladson's spot and why are we finding a spot for osborne was he playing well enough prior to getting injured for a walk up start? may be he get's a week in the twos.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The team is out. Click me.