Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 20 vs. Carlton, MCG, Fri 28/07, 7:50pm

[Jelly Bean]

I don't know enough about stoppage tactics to know if what you're saying is a thing or an imagination based on your ranking. What does Jordy do differently when it's Nick, Pendles and him to when it's Pendles, Mitchell and him in the centre? Looks to position the same to me.

I thought exactly the same thing. We as supporters tend to imagine tactics / roles for players that probably aren't real.

I suspect that when Jordy is in a centre bounce, he plays it the exact same way regardless of who else in in there with him. It doesn't matter whether it is Adams and Nick, or Pendles and Nick, etc. Jordy has a style, and he plays that style.

 

[No SPIN]

He was really quite good against the Dogs in the reserves. If he has another good game, then Hill's poor run of form could ask the question.

Hill's physical attributes are what will keep him in the team IMO, but it's not as if he's untouchable

Like I said Ginnivan’s current form is not worth a recall.

 

[3rdMan]

Sunday Footy Show saying Tom Mitchell’s position is under threat being subbed in and subbed out the last 2 weeks.

Does anyone believe this? Or they are trying to make headlines?

I don’t think he is under threat, I just think it was a wet game, we needed to introduce some more pace in the game and he wasn’t getting penetration in his kicks.
I think he is a vital cog in our inside midfield. Above average in AFL stats for disposals, contested disposals and clearances.

Definitely should be a question. This was his worst game, but has had a number of ordinary ones leading up to it. Adams looks the better inside mid. Maybe that's because he's fresher having been able to play a less taxing role most of the year. If that's the case Mitchell needs to be given some time off to recover. If he can't improve, not sure he warrants a spot.

 

[Matt_352]

Give Cox a rest I think.

Out: Cox Lipa
In: AJ Markov
WHE (sub)

 

[mocamagic]

Cameron and Cox combo is going ok and doesn't need to change in the short term

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Hospital handpass?
Maynard should never have called for the ball given JHF was virtually next to him.

You’re a bit late to that argument so I won’t bother repeating my thoughts

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It's unbelievable how he even managed to kick 40 goals last year, then.

Jack Anthony kicked 50 one year . Ginni has a tough road in front of him to get back this year.

 

[swoop42]

Cox out, Johnson in

Stiff.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

His handballing is really poor, always fumbles and tries to spend it before he has it.

Yes that was very noticeable yesterday. He blew a number of good opportunities doing just that.

Not used to playing with a wet ball? Has a few teammates who showed similar issues with the slippery ball.

I hope we put the sprinklers on at training a few times between now and finals.

 

[The Phantom]

I was there. Their defence was standard - matching up but sagging off when they could. Aliir is such a good athlete who is way faster than Cox, mcStay and Mihocek - so he was able to play a fair way off his man without it causing an issue. Rather than him going to the most dangerous, he went to the slowest one.

We were pretty fumbly with our attempted handball chains - so I'm not sure if it was their system, pressure, or the wet that stopped us getting our run going.

What was noticable was how they exitted defensive 50. their forwards pushed right up and manned our defenders when they pushed up and when they were kicking to contests from defence, their forwards weren't really presenting to mark it, but were playing back shoulder and trying to force our defenders under the ball - it worked well I thought.

That’s really interesting.

I know how much our coaches focus on the exits.
I had the privilege of sitting in the VFL coaches box one game and saw this first hand.

They look closely at our exit avenues out of defense and potential opposing rebound exits out of our attack if turned over.

I suspect they’ll be all over it in the review.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

Ginnivan would need a 10 tackle game and 6 goals to even be a consideration.
He is way behind Hill, because of his lack of pace.

Fair enough. Does kick more goals generally though.

 

[Scodog10]

It's unbelievable how he even managed to kick 40 goals last year, then.

He’s got smarts which is why he’s a chance further afield, but not in 2023.

I never said that. I don't think he's quite there at the moment, at least not in terms of knocking Hill out.

Just find the constant carry on over his athleticism amusing.

I’m not sure about carry on, but Fly’s words and actions play as big a role as Ginnivan’s form in how I’m forming my opinion on his claims on a best 23 spot. The presser from last night was the best indication yet of how valuable run is to us. Mitchell>>>>Ginnivan as a player and Mitchell was subbed because of how he was covering the ground…

 

[The Phantom]

Neither has leg speed.
Both are smart.
One extracts balls and accumulates possession.
The other kicks goals.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Cox out, Johnson in

Stop being offensive Jmac.

 

[stormskye]

That kid in the yellow poncho

 

[No SPIN]

I never said that. I don't think he's quite there at the moment, at least not in terms of knocking Hill out.

Just find the constant carry on over his athleticism amusing.

Why is it “carry on”?
I’d he had it he’d be playing.

 

[sr36]

That’s really interesting.

I know how much our coaches focus on the exits.
I had the privilege of sitting in the VFL coaches box one game and saw this first hand.

They look closely at our exit avenues out of defense and potential opposing rebound exits out of our attack if turned over.

I suspect they’ll be all over it in the review.

It was a good tactic. It got them out the back a fair bit - might have been really damaging in drier conditions.

 

[TradeDraft]

IN: Macrae WHE

OUT: Mitchell(Rested) Lipinski(Dropped)

 

[ThePhantom777]

IN: Macrae WHE

OUT: Mitchell(Rested) Lipinski(Dropped)

I think Titch needs a game off to rest up. He's been great for us this season but is obviously carrying something. There were mentions of back issues earlier in the year and neck issues recently.

Is WHE available?

 

[Fat Jesus]

I think Titch needs a game off to rest up. He's been great for us this season but is obviously carrying something. There were mentions of back issues earlier in the year and neck issues recently.

Is WHE available?

Mitch is fine.

 

[Jelly Bean]

David King has been saying it for weeks as well. Would think he is in the best team but there are options if they want more run such as putting Markov or WHE in the 22.

Bucks called it many weeks ago, and people lost their minds about it and criticised Bucks.

He said that Mitchell was a good part of our second tier midfield around the top core of the likes of De Goey, Adams, Pendles, etc.

 

[Jelly Bean]

People saying we should go with a Johnson or Krueger as 2nd ruck next week because 'Carlton only have one true ruck' are mindblowing... We play our structure, not the opposition's structure. Just because Carlton don't have a good 2nd ruck doesn't mean we should match that, it means we should dominate the 2nd ruck time.

 

[sam_e]

I’m not convinced Howe is a better choice than frampton. One on one he is not the player he once was, and his disposal and decision making is questionable at times. That hospital handpass to Maynard was a shocker. He is becoming a bit one dimensional. The club will persist with him and he’s still running into form after a long layoff, but he’s on my watch list.

Wouldn’t be opposed to seeing if there’s a better option than lipinski or mitchell but it’s probably line ball until whe is available.

Johnson for cox makes some sense. It’s becoming a luxury we can’t afford to have cox on the bench for half a game. That sai I though cox was pretty good given conditions didn’t suit him… he was doing the one percenters. Set up the mccreery goal with a neat mark and handball.

In summary…. No change is on the cards with lipinski being sub this week. But vfl will tell us a bit.

agree with most of this.

Re Lippa:
f50 tackle count well down last few weeks

Has contributed to our inability to lock ball in our forward line ..this forces us to rely on scoring from d50 (and i'm not sure how sustainable that is in finals)

Lipinski does NOT body the ball, is slow and is anaemic in the tackle so, for mine, he is part of the problem

At this stage, i would select WHE ahead of Lippa and probably even consider Markov down forward ahead of him; or play Crisp forward and have Markov back-fill his spot down back

Either which way, we need to improve our f50 pressure & tackling inside f50

Re Howe:
IMO, father time is catching & arguably already caught up with Howe, particularly when you consider the number of significant injuries he's endured in recent years. For mine, he's the weakest link of the KP trinity down back, particularly 1v1. He struggled in the final series last year (esp v Geelong and Swans); not quick or agile enough for medium size forwards, under-sized for bigger bodied guys and is increasingly prone to a clanger or two. OTOH, his understanding of 'team' defence, familiarity of back-6 zonal patterns and kicking efficiency (hitting targets coming out of d50) count in his favour.

I would prefer Frampton for his additional height, ability to potentially release Moore and added flexibility (eg. can play 2nd ruck, pinch hit forward etc) but he has not spent much time down back (save game earlier in year vs Rich) to really gel with the other defenders.

Reckon the hierarchy will stick with Howe but i'd lean the other way.

 

[ThePhantom777]

Mitch is fine.

He started as sub last week and was subbed this week.

In the first quarter he was pushing to a contest on the wing and noticeably struggling to get there.

IMO give him a proper rest instead of managing him through the sub. I think he's a key player for us, just needs a rest so he's cherry ripe for finals.

 

[Fat Jesus]

He started as sub last week and was subbed this week.

In the first quarter he was pushing to a contest on the wing and noticeably struggling to get there.

IMO give him a proper rest instead of managing him through the sub. I think he's a key player for us, just needs a rest so he's cherry ripe for finals.

And what did Fly say..?
He will be rotating the subs all year round.
It doesn't mean they are not good enough or playing to expectations.
Mitchell has won us many games this year..
Adams just as important