Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 20 vs. Carlton, MCG, Fri 28/07, 7:50pm

[ThePhantom777]

And what did Fly say..?
He will be rotating the subs all year round.
It doesn't mean they are not good enough or playing to expectations.
Mitchell has won us many games this year..
Adams just as important

When asked about Titch as sub last week in the midweek media thing, Fly said that he'd played every game and done every training session and this was a way to manage him.

I'm saying he's important for our premiership ambitions and played great all year but last 2 weeks looks like he needs a rest to get over niggles.

 

[Kes1984]

I believe it. He's mid only and JDG, Nick, Pendles and Adams are all outplaying him in the midfield at the moment.

Agree. It’s Nick’s entry into the midfield that’s pushing him out.
And the fact Crisp and Markov are playing the old Nick role well.

 

[3rdMan]

He started as sub last week and was subbed this week.

In the first quarter he was pushing to a contest on the wing and noticeably struggling to get there.

IMO give him a proper rest instead of managing him through the sub. I think he's a key player for us, just needs a rest so he's cherry ripe for finals.

Yep noticed he was really struggling to get up and down. Hope he has some fitness issue that can be fixed. Either way, with Nick moving to the middle and WHE and Markov out of the 22 we've got some decisions to make on our best mix of running players. Mitchell and Lipinski the most vulnerable at the moment if a change is made.

 

[gouki88]

Definitely should be a question. This was his worst game, but has had a number of ordinary ones leading up to it. Adams looks the better inside mid. Maybe that's because he's fresher having been able to play a less taxing role most of the year. If that's the case Mitchell needs to be given some time off to recover. If he can't improve, not sure he warrants a spot.

What is this "number" that you keep referring to. Please cite the games and what he did at an ordinary level in them

 

[swoop42]

People saying we should go with a Johnson or Krueger as 2nd ruck next week because 'Carlton only have one true ruck' are mindblowing... We play our structure, not the opposition's structure. Just because Carlton don't have a good 2nd ruck doesn't mean we should match that, it means we should dominate the 2nd ruck time.

Pittonet returned in the VFL yesterday so may well play next week for Carlton anyway.

 

[3rdMan]

What is this "number" that you keep referring to. Please cite the games and what he did at an ordinary level in them

"Ordinary" is probably too strong, let's say where he's been "ok".

Most of his recent games. Bulldogs, Suns, Crows. Under 5 clearances in all and not damaging with the ball. Going back two more games he had 5 against Melbourne, 2 against the Roos. In my view he needs to be great at clearances to definitely be ahead of Adams as our number 1 inside mid. Caveat: I'd like to see the numbers on first possession, because if he's winning it first and handballing out to others who get the clearance, that's also valuable, though still doesn't provide what we've got from Adams the last two weeks.

Let's look at Adams just last night though. 9 clearances, 20 kicks and 5 handballs. Even on the stats that's a more impactful inside mid game than most we've seen from Tom. Mitchell had 10 clearances in round 1 and, on a quick check, has had two 8 clearance games. And the clearances he does get are usually a lot more handballs and short or quick kicks, not the kind of drive that Adams has given us the last two weeks.

Other than last night, I don't think Mitchell has been poor, just that Adams has looked better these last two weeks in his natural role. Tough to play them both in the square and not sure if Mitch will work as a forward. Given how good Adams has looked and the desperation and force with which he plays, you'd like to see him playing in the square. I'm almost certain we'll stick with Mitch and maybe more evenly divide the CBA between he and Adams. Will help to keep them both fresh.

 

[rdangelo]

Mitchell (proper rest) - in Macrae
Hill - in Ginnivan

Make Hill the sub.

Noble looked a bit fumbly last night but he was due for an off one. Hard nut plenty points in the bank

 

[Prexm]

Mitchell (proper rest) - in Macrae
Hill - in Ginnivan

Make Hill the sub.

Noble looked a bit fumbly last night but he was due for an off one. Hard nut plenty points in the bank

If Mitchell was to be rested then Markov or WHE would be ahead of Macrae.

 

[rdangelo]

If Mitchell was to be rested then Markov or WHE would be ahead of Macrae.

It's not about who's ahead. I think Fly knows he has to test someone like Macrae very soon just incase he's called on in a final

 

[manicpie]

No change unless they feel Cox needs a game in the VFL

 

[3rdMan]

It's not about who's ahead. I think Fly knows he has to test someone like Macrae very soon just incase he's called on in a final

I think we already have an excess of mids. We'd at least 2 or 3 injuries to start considering Macrae. If Mitchell is injured Adams goes to the square, if Adams is injured then Crisp. We then add Markov to half back or WHE to forward/wing. We've got plenty of cover within the existing team.

If Mitchell is struggling physically and left out, I think we do what we did last night and add extra run via Markov or WHE.

 

[live fast pieyoung]

People who are pitching for inclusions outside the currently established 23-24 players are dreaming.

I highly doubt we will pull the trigger on any of the likes of Ginnivan, Harrison, Kreuger, etc unless there are 3-4 injuries from current crop (of which only WHE is on the injured list).

Frampton, Johnson, and WHE are the only ones who didn't play last night that will be considered to come into the team from here if there are no injuries / resting.

the voice of reason
thank god

 

[live fast pieyoung]

I was there. Their defence was standard - matching up but sagging off when they could. Aliir is such a good athlete who is way faster than Cox, mcStay and Mihocek - so he was able to play a fair way off his man without it causing an issue. Rather than him going to the most dangerous, he went to the slowest one.

We were pretty fumbly with our attempted handball chains - so I'm not sure if it was their system, pressure, or the wet that stopped us getting our run going.

What was noticable was how they exitted defensive 50. their forwards pushed right up and manned our defenders when they pushed up and when they were kicking to contests from defence, their forwards weren't really presenting to mark it, but were playing back shoulder and trying to force our defenders under the ball - it worked well I thought.

Great comment! I noticed that tactic too. Sometimes they just tried to knock it on. well spotted. Interesting tactic to use on us, especially in the wet

 

[magpies42]

Macrae referenced fatigue getting from contest to contest. Not that Fin is known for his fitness but I reckon he comes in to give the others a spell.

The VFLers are really pushing a case for finals selection.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Tough to drop anyone after that win. Weather may play a part, we were possibly a little top heavy on a wet and slippery night.
You'd have to say Cox probably goes out if it is wet.
It would be great to put a dent in Carlton's finals chances.

Long way out yet but early forecast at this stage is for 60% chance of 5-10mm late arvo. Rain may have passed by the first bounce, but it'll likely be slippery. I'm not sure that'll be enough to drive a change to the 23.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I thought that was Lipinski's best game for the club. Certainly best for quite a while.

Yep, this. Was important around the stoppages and provided an important link on forward transition.

 

[Mollythedolly]

No way Noble gets dropped. Not in a million years.

Needs to lift, last couple of weeks have been ordinary and he'll be important against the Carlton small forwards.

 

[soreplums]

Not quite that far. Just a trip from Marvel

Yep. Got it wrong

 

[Deleted member 133504]

It's a good day to be an alien life form

Thought you were talking about David Koch, or that loud mouth Vol-Kane-oh

 

[Mollythedolly]

Has to be the change. Not sure how people aren't saying this Cox hasn't done enough in the last 6 weeks in his forward role to justify needing to play him as the 2nd ruck. Frampton or Mcstay cN pinch pit and Johnson adds that 3rd tall

Really? Averaging just under a goal a game (5 from those 6 games, was a goal a game before last night), 4 score involvements a game, while also averaging 14 hitouts a game. What's an acceptable contribution for a forward/2nd ruck? Didn't have much forward impact last night but I think the hyperbole is unnecessary.

 

[3rdMan]

Conditions didn't suit, but there's no doubt Cox was poor against Port. Only playing 51% game time shows that.

We've gone with the two rucks whenever they're available, so it's unlikely we change it, but i wouldn’t say it's ludicrous. Cox has clear limitations as a forward and has issues with his ruck work as well, especially around the ground. I think it's a position we'd want to improve, whether we do that this year or next is the question.

 

[Kirby]

David King just roasted Cox on The First Crack.

Says his place in the side is under real pressure. He was pretty scathing of his ruck efforts and showed footage of Finlayson shoving him around. Said it’s not good enough.

 

[legendstatus]

David King just roasted Cox on The First Crack.

Says his place in the side is under real pressure. He was pretty scathing of his ruck efforts and showed footage of Finlayson shoving him around. Said it’s not good enough.

Saw that. Yeah got pushed ( as Finlayson does ) too easily

I think on a dry MCG Cox is valuable as he has proven

Can’t help thinking though Frampton with height, versatility and strength might be a better bet

 

[3rdMan]

David King just roasted Cox on The First Crack.

Says his place in the side is under real pressure. He was pretty scathing of his ruck efforts and showed footage of Finlayson shoving him around. Said it’s not good enough.

He gets pushed around a lot in around the ground ruck contests, is better in the centre square. I don't think we have a perfect option for third tall, second ruck. Krueger at his best might be closest, but can we trust his health and is he near his best?

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

Johnson for Cox