Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 20 vs. Carlton, MCG, Fri 28/07, 7:50pm

[windchimes]

In: Kreuger

Out: Cox

 

[3rdMan]

We've been changing our forward line a lot this year, so it really does need to be locked in. McStay has only just returned, bringing in another player who's not played all year is a risk. When that player is Krueger, who's always a chance to hurt himself, the risk is greater. Reckon we stick with Cox.

 

[manicpie]

We've been changing our forward line a lot this year, so it really does need to be locked in. McStay has only just returned, bringing in another player who's not played all year is a risk. When that player is Krueger, who's always a chance to hurt himself, the risk is greater. Reckon we stick with Cox.

The biggest problem with Cox is his TOG, he just doesn't spend enough time on ground to justify carrying him. Cameron seems best when rucking most of the game. Freddy might be the best option

 

[unplugged]

As much as I got a giggle out of the "Cox is like Seinfeld, a big show about nothing" comment by David King, I just don't know if you could or would drop him after last night.

We knew all week it was likely going to be wet. We knew game day it was going to be wet. We took AJ to SA and didn't pull the late change. And then we managed his game time down to 50-odd percent.

The conditions were never going to suit him and if we had've lost I would be questioning it as a reason as to why.

Cox and Cameron troubled Pittonet last time and he should've kicked more than one goal.

 

[3rdMan]

Question there of whether it's a Cox problem or if we don't want the three talls on the ground too often. Now that McStay's in, we've got two tall forwards who play close to the full game, so it's the third tall that sits if we don't want them on the ground together too often.

Last night was different because of the wet, haven't seen Cox play only 51% before. But his TOG may drop because McStay is playing near 90% whereas AJ had usually been in the 70s.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Like I said Ginnivan’s current form is not worth a recall.

Had a 29 disposal, 5 tackle, 2 goal (could have had 5), 3 clearance game today. That's off the back of 14 disposals, 4 tackles, 2 goals, and 3 clearances against the Doggies. And that's without even knowing his goal assist and score involvement numbers. I'd say he's very much in the selection discussions. Much as Macrae is.

 

[Harry O]

In: Kreuger

Out: Cox

Kreuger is light years away from selection.
Barely VFL level player today

 

[manicpie]

As much as I got a giggle out of the "Cox is like Seinfeld, a big show about nothing" comment by David King, I just don't know if you could or would drop him after last night.

We knew all week it was likely going to be wet. We knew game day it was going to be wet. We took AJ to SA and didn't pull the late change. And then we managed his game time down to 50-odd percent.

The conditions were never going to suit him and if we had've lost I would be questioning it as a reason as to why.

Cox and Cameron troubled Pittonet last time and he should've kicked more than one goal.

Carlton will only have one ruck, silvagni is injured. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cox dropped and Markov into the 22. AJ could be the sub

 

[No SPIN]

Had a 29 disposal, 5 tackle, 2 goal (could have had 5), 3 clearance game today. That's off the back of 14 disposals, 4 tackles, 2 goals, and 3 clearances against the Doggies. And that's without even knowing his goal assist and score involvement numbers. I'ection discussion. d say he's very much in the selection discussions. Much as Macrae is.

I wrote that before todays game.
He definitely made an impact today, and showed a level of application that’s been missing most of the year.
If he keeps improving at this rate then I’d say Fly will definitely consider a recall.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Conditions didn't suit, but there's no doubt Cox was poor against Port. Only playing 51% game time shows that.

We've gone with the two rucks whenever they're available, so it's unlikely we change it, but i wouldn’t say it's ludicrous. Cox has clear limitations as a forward and has issues with his ruck work as well, especially around the ground. I think it's a position we'd want to improve, whether we do that this year or next is the question.

His ruckwork at bounces has been fine. Was even fine last night. He had a hitout win % of about 43%. Only Cameron had better and only by a couple of %. His impact around the ground away from the ruck contests the only element that wasn't up to par last night but I think the conditions were against him.

He did do better than Lycett though in about a 1/3 less TOG.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I wrote that before todays game.
He definitely made an impact today, and showed a level of application that’s been missing most of the year.
If keeps improving at this rate then I’d say Fly will definitely consider a recall.

Yep, aged well.

 

[domus]

No change.
Only one to consider is Cox for AJ really.

AJ or McStay as back up ruckman is a big no from me. In a big final against Melbourne or Brisbane we would be slaughtered every time they took on the centre bounces or stoppages around the ground.

Imagine AJ up against Tom Hawkins 20 metres our from goal in a tight finish.
My God, I shudder just thinking about it!

 

[danielnajdek]

Watched that show with David King and the flog Montagna. He really doesn't rate us at all. Always finds negatives. Still salty over that GF.

 

[3rdMan]

Watched that show with David King and the flog Montagna. He really doesn't rate us at all. Always finds negatives. Still salty over that GF.

King made a point in response, which is something I'd been thinking: averages don't apply very well to us as we switch modes of play during games. The averages may say we're poor at something but that's because we do it brilliantly for a Q and then turn it off (or lose it). A simple example is we're quite a different team when trailing in the last than any other time. Or many other games where we've had a different Q where we scored heavily and not so much in the others (2nd Q against Freo).

Not saying this is necessarily a good thing in all cases and some of our inconsistency (he called it contextual, but I think that's generous in some areas) would want to be levelled out, but it can explain why some stats (mostly attacking) look a bit off.

 

[Sub_Zero]

In: Kreuger

Out: Cox

lmao Kreuger who got 14 disposals and no goals in the VFL?

 

[unplugged]

Carlton will only have one ruck, silvagni is injured. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cox dropped and Markov into the 22. AJ could be the sub

Don't think Carlton's ruck/second ruck will come into it too much. We don't need Cox just for the secondary ruck. We use him to hit the corner of the square when we're coming from a back flank and use it often. He's there to bring the ball to ground at worst.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cox gets dropped but if he does I would expect it's for Frampton or AJ who can also play this role somewhat.

 

[neilk]

Saw that. Yeah got pushed ( as Finlayson does ) too easily

I think on a dry MCG Cox is valuable as he has proven

Can’t help thinking though Frampton with height, versatility and strength might be a better bet

It's looking like it will be wet this Friday.

 

[jmac70]

AJ or McStay as back up ruckman is a big no from me. In a big final against Melbourne or Brisbane we would be slaughtered every time they took on the centre bounces or stoppages around the ground.

Imagine AJ up against Tom Hawkins 20 metres our from goal in a tight finish.
My God, I shudder just thinking about it!

I know you’re a big fan of Cox. Surely you can still see that he is in poor form at the moment.
AJ deserves another crack at AFL, and Cox needs to find form. In the VFL.

 

[gouki88]

lmao Kreuger who got 14 disposals and no goals in the VFL?

Is 14 disposals from a tall meant to be a bad thing?

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Out: Lipinski
In: anyone

Would have said this early, but he got much better and in the end was pretty good.

I thought Hill was our worst but I wouldn't be taking him out.

Cox stays in, but if it's wet I think it makes sense to move him out for a Johnson or Kreuger. Dry conditions he stays in.

Mitchell is a definite keep in. His year has been good. It's great that Tay Adams is finding his top form at the right time and it may mean one of Tay and Mitchell get subbed out at some point in big games, but both Mitchell and Adams are tooth and nail in clearances, we will need that in finals. Also, how many bloody times has Adams gone down mid match? Would be very silly to go on with only one true inside mid. Pendles and DeGoey can do inside stuff, but are better doing there own dual game.

So in summary, no change!

 

[neilk]

Would have said this early, but he got much better and in the end was pretty good.

I thought Hill was our worst but I wouldn't be taking him out.

Cox stays in, but if it's wet I think it makes sense to move him out for a Johnson or Kreuger. Dry conditions he stays in.

Mitchell is a definite keep in. His year has been good. It's great that Tay Adams is finding his top form at the right time and it may mean one of Tay and Mitchell get subbed out at some point in big games, but both Mitchell and Adams are tooth and nail in clearances, we will need that in finals. Also, how many bloody times has Adams gone down mid match? Would be very silly to go on with only one true inside mid. Pendles and DeGoey can do inside stuff, but are better doing there own dual game.

So in summary, no change!

Understand the change if it's wet, but would any tall be worth bringing in if it's wet, or do we go with a small ground-level player in the wet? Dare I say it, but Ginnivan?

 

[manicpie]

I'll be the first to announce this one as a danger game. Not because it's Carlton, but because we're playing on a 6 day break after an interstate blockbuster where we absolutely bored in on a wet night.

Wade makes his money this week.

I'll be the first to announce that we will ****en smash them. it's so obvious that it will be, "kick it to Curnow" that we are going to gorge off that and run them ragged. This is one game that holds no fear for me

 

[No SPIN]

Yep, aged well.

I’m sorry to have burst your bubble, with your earlier “gotcha” attempt.

 

[Scodog10]

AJ or McStay as back up ruckman is a big no from me. In a big final against Melbourne or Brisbane we would be slaughtered every time they took on the centre bounces or stoppages around the ground.

Imagine AJ up against Tom Hawkins 20 metres our from goal in a tight finish.
My God, I shudder just thinking about it!

v Gawn or McInerney yes, but I’d give McStay the edge v Van Rooyen or Daniher and back AJ in to be competitive enough. Also Grundy struggles v Hawkins in that scenario. You plan for it and can mitigate it. Me I’d not nominate a ruckman and sweat on him grabbing it.

The ice Cox is skating on got considerably thinner in my mind after he wasn’t able to engage Aliir on Saturday night. The weathers looking ok for Friday night (that hurt him) and I think he bounces back this week. He’d want to though because he’s Sicily’s bunny and it would be hard to pick him v Geelong if he’s had three poor games on the trot.

 

[Kes1984]

Ginnivan is a big game player - reckon it's time to try him again. He's one that doesn't buckle under the pressure of the big stage. Handy come finals and he's shown something this past game in the VFL.