Changes v Ade Rd 3

[Wizard]

All going to plan injury wise:

In: Ibbo, Jack
Out: MJ, Roberton

No hate for Robbo, in fact i love the way he plays hes a very talented boy and works his tail off. I'm a litle concerned with a trend we are seeing from him though, he burns in the first half and then completely disappears after half time. Its pretty much happened in every game he has played so far.
Fitness doesn't seem to be a question with him though, his running is supposedly elite so i don't have an answer to it.
I think Ibbo plays a similar role as him but better at the moment. And lets be fair MJ is hopeless at present.

And i DONT want to see Palme used as a sub ever again, stupid stupid bloody move.

 

[Frigate]

You really want to bring a guy averaging 8 possessions in the WAFL? Bollenhagen is the new BOB it seems.

You are right. Not yet. I just he did good things last year and look forward to him coming into the team at some point.

Jack would be the right option. Give him an opportunity and see how he goes.

 

[go_the_dockers]

In: Mellington or Pearce, Pitt or Crichton, Ibbotson if fit
Out: Walters, Crowley, Johnson

Johnson hasnt showed enough, and i think McPhee if required can play the third tall. Was really impressed with his game on the wkend, was always presenting and wanted the footy.

Walters, and Crowley havent done enough.

Pearce, Crichton and Mellington have performed in the WAFL, and are all pushing for a game. Pitt didnt disapoint in his first game, but it may be better to play him next week at home after a game in the WAFL. (Not sure why Pitt didnt play on the wkend)

Dont believe you can pick Anthony infront of Pearce, who has shown a lot more at WAFL level.

 

[Wizard]

Dont believe you can pick Anthony infront of Pearce, who has shown a lot more at WAFL level.

It really depends if we are picking players on form or if we are picking for structure, more often then not structure takes precedence.

 

[Clay Davis]

Seems the jury is out on MJ. I have kept out of the debate, however I think he was out of position personally. He never has been a natural forward, like McPharlin. He should be a pure defender. I think he has enough talent to take the role on properly. Maybe some time in the WAFL would not hurt anyway with his output. Remember Clarke getting played as a FF last year? It was ugly. Out of position sucks.

What are you talking about? He played forward for the majority of last year.

His problem is that 'out of position' means any role where he is expected to either stick tight to a player or have a player stick tight to him. He cannot defend one-on-one, nor can he play as a key forward target where a defender will match up on him.

He is effectively a taller, slower version of Paul Duffield.

Clarke was terrible at FF last year because he was a teenage ruckman who is relatively new to the game. Johnson has been in the system for years and can only play as a tall flanker, which is a handy position to have if you've got your key talls sorted and they play good games, but without them, Johnson is made to look ordinary.

 

[Wizard]

MJs best position is either half back or wing.
Physically he is atrocious, he cant play key forward because he gets moved to easily. Cant play key back for the same reason and he turns the ball over with looping HBs or kicks to often.
Off half back he is very good unless he has an active opponent as he can be exposed easily, he floats across well and can play that covering role to assist Luke Mac or Grover pretty well. His issue down there is he isn't as damaging offensively as Duff, Suban or Broughton.
Off the wing he is ok, he can expose teams going forward from the wing with his height but again can be exposed defensively due to his work ethic.

I don't know we have a spot in the side for him unless he grows a set at the moment.

 

[Wizard]

He is effectively a taller, slower version of Paul Duffield.

Bullseye, beat me to it. With less intensity if that is possible.

 

[theGav56]

Johnson has been in the system for years and can only play as a tall flanker, which is a handy position to have if you've got your key talls sorted and they play good games, but without them, Johnson is made to look ordinary.

So that'd be 3 tall forwards your wanting.

 

[Clay Davis]

So that'd be 3 tall forwards your wanting.

Umm, no. Just one. Pavlich.

Johnson is a key tall as much as Nathan Fyfe is a key tall.

 

[go_the_dockers]

It really depends if we are picking players on form or if we are picking for structure, more often then not structure takes precedence.

I really think you have to pick on form. What other incentive is there for players to work hard and play good games in the WAFL??

 

[yakamoto]

Seldom have I read such an amount of ill-informed nonsense as the bilge that has been spewed forth by so many on this thread over the least few days. Thank dog for some sanity provided by Dugrene and one or two others. As for you Samseenee, you sir/madam are a disgrace. MJ's buddy indeed. I demand you resign immediately. Oh! And if you think MJ is about to be dropped or should be dropped, listen to Harvey's 6PR interview from yesterday.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

How much evidence do people need before they realise Johnson isn't a KPP at either end of the ground?

At his best he provides a great link man through the middle and can outreach normal flankers/mids. At his worst he is useless because he can't perform the roles his height/speed require. Other than 2nd ruck, he is effectively a slow Duffield as Clay said.

For that matter, Kep isn't a KPF either but at least he competes and is valuable as a secondary target.

If only the coaches would bring Jack in as a forward or defender and SNOS when fit as the second ruck/utility. But I doubt Johnno will get dropped. I think the coaches are too scared to do so in case he actually plays to his potential and they miss out on that output.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

I really think you have to pick on form. What other incentive is there for players to work hard and play good games in the WAFL??

This is true but Griffen had an awesome game in round 1 but there is no way we could bring him in without dropping one of Kep or Johnno otherwise we'd have been ridiculously tall. Likewise Jack who had a great preseason in terms of workrate if not goals.

So structure has to come into it.

Pearce deserves a shot though and should be easier to slot in. And I'm sure they'd love to blood Mellington soon. Harves hasn't seemed happy with Walters the last two weeks in his post-match comments so there's a chance for a straight swap there...?

 

[Clay Davis]

Seldom have I read such an amount of ill-informed nonsense as the bilge that has been spewed forth by so many on this thread over the least few days. Thank dog for some sanity provided by Dugrene and one or two others. As for you Samseenee, you sir/madam are a disgrace. MJ's buddy indeed. I demand you resign immediately. Oh! And if you think MJ is about to be dropped or should be dropped, listen to Harvey's 6PR interview from yesterday.

Strange, that's the second bizarre defence of Johnson in a week from you. Are you a relation of his?

Funny that you called Kepler a crab last week, then he kicks three goals. Do you know anything about football?

 

[Rhino1966]

er Jesse Crichton anyone

 

[Lach72]

This is true but Griffen had an awesome game in round 1 but there is no way we could bring him in without dropping one of Kep or Johnno otherwise we'd have been ridiculously tall. Likewise Jack who had a great preseason in terms of workrate if not goals.

So structure has to come into it.

Pearce deserves a shot though and should be easier to slot in. And I'm sure they'd love to blood Mellington soon. Harves hasn't seemed happy with Walters the last two weeks in his post-match comments so there's a chance for a straight swap there...?

Sonny could get one more week, then get the boot for Josh...maybe...

 

[Avid_Avenger]

Sonny could get one more week, then get the boot for Josh...maybe...

Yeh I think Mellington needs to back it up in the wafl too, just considering players who might be on thin ice. For reasons unknown Harves seems to be directing his attention at players like Walters and Palmer rather than other players who are down on their game: Duffield, Crowley, Johnson.

Pearce for a tackle-less Crowley might work. We don't need 4 taggers in the team, especially if one of them isn't tagging.

 

[Chris25]

Sonny could get one more week, then get the boot for Josh...maybe...

It depends on what you're after. Mellington is as much of a small forward as Mayne is, while Pearce is another that fits into that medium forward flanker role. And I'm not sure that is what we need at the moment.

With the impact that Ballantyne has had up the ground, having another one of those opportunistic smalls in the forward fifty is important (and no, DeBoer doesn't count). Walters hasn't set the world on fire, but he is important for our structure. And although he has been quiet, he has looked likely in my opinion.

 

[prattsta]

Seldom have I read such an amount of ill-informed nonsense as the bilge that has been spewed forth by so many on this thread over the least few days. Thank dog for some sanity provided by Dugrene and one or two others. As for you Samseenee, you sir/madam are a disgrace. MJ's buddy indeed. I demand you resign immediately. Oh! And if you think MJ is about to be dropped or should be dropped, listen to Harvey's 6PR interview from yesterday.

I don't think MJ will be dropped, just that he should be dropped. That's two ordinary games in a row from a flanker in a squad with an abundance of flankers. Pitt is a flanker, he was dropped after one game which is arguably better than anything MJ has dished up so far.

Harvey's excuses for MJ's performance so far this season have been moronic; particularly his 'game-breaker' argument last night. Nobody cares if MJ isn't winning heaps of the footy. Nobody cares if MJ hasn't contributed a single goal (either himself or as an assist) this season. Nobody cares if he was played out of position by the coaches against Brisbane. Nobody cares if he's playing sooo selflessly that it's affecting his performance as a game-breaker. All anyone cares about, is the complete lack of effort he has shown.

It really is as simple as that.

 

[theGav56]

Johnson has been in the system for years and can only play as a tall flanker, which is a handy position to have if you've got your key talls sorted.

Umm, no. Just one. Pavlich.

Johnson is a key tall as much as Nathan Fyfe is a key tall.

Umm, yup.

Key talls = 2, otherwise it would be Key tall, singular ie Pavlich.

Tall flanker = 1 because flanker is a position which can be played by either a tall, medium or small. If it is MJ then the opposition will use a tall defender on him as they virtually always do. If it Fyfe they will not necessarily.

2+1=3 which is the minimum number you are suggesting in this statement.

You are all over the shop with your opinion on this subject.

 

[Clay Davis]

Umm, yup.

Key talls = 2, otherwise it would be Key tall, singular ie Pavlich.

Tall flanker = 1 because flanker is a position which can be played by either a tall, medium or small. If it is MJ then the opposition will use a tall defender on him as they virtually always do. If it Fyfe they will not necessarily.

2+1=3 which is the minimum number you are suggesting in this statement.

You are all over the shop with your opinion on this subject.

You're the same age as my mother, Gav, so it's amusing you have the same low level of comprehension as her.

Key talls = key talls in the back line and forward line.

Not key forwards. Not key defenders. Key talls.

This means that when we had players like McPharlin, Silvagni, Tarrant, Pavlich, Grover, etc all available to hold down the key positions, Johnson was given the freedom to float across the ground without worrying about being closely checked.

Put him in defence running low on key defenders, or up forward with no key forwards, he'll struggle. He'll have to keep close check on a player or be closely checked himself. And that is when he will fail.

Here is a prime example. The last time we were missing Grover, McPharlin and Tarrant in the one game, Johnson was forced to play defence and went missing. Eight touches was his lowest output last year, and for many years up until this year's game in Brisbane.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

I don't think MJ will be dropped, just that he should be dropped. That's two ordinary games in a row from a flanker in a squad with an abundance of flankers. Pitt is a flanker, he was dropped after one game which is arguably better than anything MJ has dished up so far.

Harvey's excuses for MJ's performance so far this season have been moronic; particularly his 'game-breaker' argument last night. Nobody cares if MJ isn't winning heaps of the footy. Nobody cares if MJ hasn't contributed a single goal (either himself or as an assist) this season. Nobody cares if he was played out of position by the coaches against Brisbane. Nobody cares if he's playing sooo selflessly that it's affecting his performance as a game-breaker. All anyone cares about, is the complete lack of effort he has shown.

It really is as simple as that.

Does anyone else find it strange that Harves even considers Johnson a 'game-breaker'?

He doesn't have any of the atributes that you'd normally associate with this quality. He's not fast. He doesn't rack up quick stats or clearances or monster opposition midfields. He never kicks a burst of goals. He doesn't breakaway from contests. He doesn't pull in contested marks.

Not quite sure how he 'breaks games open'. At his best he is great linking up through the middle with great skills that is handy in dissecting zones and can sometimes create a mismatch. But we seldom see his best.

If Johnson is a 'game-breaker', how many players does Harvey rate in the same category?

 

[theGav56]

You're the same age as my mother, Gav, so it's amusing you have the same low level of comprehension as her.

Key talls = key talls in the back line and forward line.

Not key forwards. Not key defenders. Key talls.

This means that when we had players like McPharlin, Silvagni, Tarrant, Pavlich, Grover, etc all available to hold down the key positions, Johnson was given the freedom to float across the ground without worrying about being closely checked.

Put him in defence running low on key defenders, or up forward with no key forwards, he'll struggle. He'll have to keep close check on a player or be closely checked himself. And that is when he will fail.

Here is a prime example. The last time we were missing Grover, McPharlin and Tarrant in the one game, Johnson was forced to play defence and went missing. Eight touches was his lowest output last year, and for many years up until this year's game in Brisbane.

Help me with that comprehension.... You name 4 "Key" backmen plus MJ, but think we need 1 "Key" forward? And you think that is how the game is developing.

 

[prattsta]

Does anyone else find it strange that Harves even considers Johnson a 'game-breaker'?

My bad, Harvey actually said play-maker. Not sure that is accurate either but it's certainly closer to the mark than game-breaker.

 

[Clay Davis]

Help me with that comprehension.... You name 4 "Key" backmen plus MJ, but think we need 1 "Key" forward? And you think that is how the game is developing.

I'm not sure what your issue is here. I named those we had available on our list last year who could hold down a key position. Only three on that list were available this game, and one of those played midfield.

The last time we have been comparatively poor in that regard was the Richmond game last year. And look how Johnson played then.