Unofficial Preview Changes v Bombers, Metricon Friday night.

[jjami15]

Interesting to see how Cutler goes.

No, no it’s not interesting. Once a player leaves you move on. Faceless, nameless, nobody. Too far ?

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

We are getting a few injuries but as long as they resolve a week or two before the finals it won't matter.It could be to our advantage. Bailey tried down back. Good. Another tall tried forward. Good. A spot of another small forward. Good.

While I don't want any of our players to ever get injured, it ain't a disaster and we have been hyper lucky.

 

[T Rick]

I think we need to temper our expectations regarding anyone who comes in to replace injured/suspended/omitted players. The lack of meaningful match play (even at NEAFL level) will make it really difficult for an incoming player to pick up the pace of an AFL game quickly and make an impact.

 

[jackess]

I think we need to temper our expectations regarding anyone who comes in to replace injured/suspended/omitted players. The lack of meaningful match play (even at NEAFL level) will make it really difficult for an incoming player to pick up the pace of an AFL game quickly and make an impact.

Unless they're Archie, right?

 

[M Malice]

Unless they're Archie, right?

I think Archie is a little different to the likes of Skinner/Ballenden and other young guys in that he has been on our list for 7 years so has a bigger body of work to give a more informed opinion on, to my nuffie untrained eye he does not appear to be improving and if anything has regressed.

The club giving him the OK to look at a possible trade out last off season may be an indicator that we don't have a great deal of confidence that he will make it, however giving him an extension to the end of 2021 was a tad confusing.

 

[jackess]

I think Archie is a little different to the likes of Skinner/Ballenden and other young guys in that he has been on our list for 7 years so has a bigger body of work to give a more informed opinion on, to my nuffie untrained eye he does not appear to be improving and if anything has regressed.

The club giving him the OK to look at a possible trade out last off season may be an indicator that we don't have a great deal of confidence that he will make it, however giving him an extension to the end of 2021 was a tad confusing.

I've always tried not to judge someone too harshly based on one game stepping up from the NEAFL. Even tougher now coming from scratch matches or no matches and to then come up against one of the best rucks in the league.

I agree with most that he's an average at best AFL ruckman but the coaches won't be dropping him after one game so we might as well back off and give him 2-3 games to get up to speed.

 

[M Malice]

I've always tried not to judge someone too harshly based on one game stepping up from the NEAFL. Even tougher now coming from scratch matches or no matches and to then come up against one of the best rucks in the league.

I agree with most that he's an average at best AFL ruckman but the coaches won't be dropping him after one game so we might as well back off and give him 2-3 games to get up to speed.

Agree, he has had 3 games since coming back from lockdown though, I also agree that he will not be omitted at this stage, as I have posted previously I hope I am wrong about Archie and he turns into a viable long term option for us.

 

[Fagenslions36]

He is absolutely terrible . Slow cumbersome no polish . He gave away the free kick to weiderman at start of the game for holding he is a dumb dumb player . For someone that came in with all these apparant athletic traits he looks worse then ever . The fact that a mature man 25 odd who has done a mountain of weights and developed his body gets beaten by an 18 year old playing his 5th game of footy says everything you need to know .

 

[jackess]

Agree, he has had 3 games since coming back from lockdown though, I also agree that he will not be omitted at this stage, as I have posted previously I hope I am wrong about Archie and he turns into a viable long term option for us.

Yeah more than happy with the long term view that he isn't someone we want playing many games but for now we have to back him and the coaches in.

And don't need to post rubbish like this....

He is absolutely terrible . Slow cumbersome no polish . He gave away the free kick to weiderman at start of the game for holding he is a dumb dumb player . For someone that came in with all these apparant athletic traits he looks worse then ever . The fact that a mature man 25 odd who has done a mountain of weights and developed his body gets beaten by an 18 year old playing his 5th game of footy says everything you need to know .

If what you post is true then Fagan and the coaches must be complete morons. Are they complete morons or is what you post completely ridiculous?

 

[eth-dog]

Interesting to see how Cutler goes.

He might not even play honestly, but I'd have him in. His first couple of games were solid if unspectacular. His main role is to be the link up man between the arcs, provide an outlet one-on-one against the opposition wing.

 

[Gadzorks]

Interesting to see how Cutler goes.

Insider knowledge is an advantage, especially when it's a senior whose been around a while. If Rich plays (not yet on the injured list ) I don't think it will elevate them by enough to win though.

 

[jackess]

Cutler would've been our last player to be suspended for 2 weeks?

 

[Quigley]

If what you post is true then Fagan and the coaches must be complete morons. Are they complete morons or is what you post completely ridiculous?

Maybe they made a mistake. It happens to the best of us.

They might also have been using him as a break in case of emergency player hoping they could double team and reduce the influence of Gawn. That clearly didn't work and Archie gave nothing over the day and should be stamped as never to play again.

It was really odd for me that a player who lived and died on his athleticism seems to have bulked up to the extent that he cannot now get off the ground. Gawn jumped all over him at the centre bounces and Archie was rooted to the ground.

He has been given a few shots this year and has shown that there is no upside in playing him. Give someone else a go who although they might not be as good in the actual ruck offer us something around the ground or as a positional player.

 

[jackess]

Maybe they made a mistake. It happens to the best of us.

They might also have been using him as a break in case of emergency player hoping they could double team and reduce the influence of Gawn. That clearly didn't work and Archie gave nothing over the day and should be stamped as never to play again.

It was really odd for me that a player who lived and died on his athleticism seems to have bulked up to the extent that he cannot now get off the ground. Gawn jumped all over him at the centre bounces and Archie was rooted to the ground.

He has been given a few shots this year and has shown that there is no upside in playing him. Give someone else a go who although they might not be as good in the actual ruck offer us something around the ground or as a positional player.

If Gawn was so dominant how did we manage to smash them in the clearances? They have good clearance winners; Viney, Oliver, Petracca, etc.

Perhaps Melbourne should've played a different ruckman

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

If you wanted to select conditions where Archie's limitations would be magnified our last match was it. He largely got in the way, unfortunately our players as much as theirs's but I cannot help that it was entirely predictable.

He played to help in containing Gawn.

I do not think it is reasonable to regard his poor match as evidence either way to his long term future.

 

[Milux]

2 weeks to work on his set shots

He has had what 6 years in an afl system to work on them. Not sure what 2 weeks will fix.

 

[Quigley]

If Gawn was so dominant how did we manage to smash them in the clearances? They have good clearance winners; Viney, Oliver, Petracca, etc.

Perhaps Melbourne should've played a different ruckman

Now you are the one who is being stupid.

Gawn dominated the hit outs and the hit outs to advantage. Our midfielders did a great job of getting the ball out when they got first hands on it and shutting down the Melb players when they got to it first. Absolutely zero credit should be attributed to either of our rucks.

 

[rockypls]

Where is this said?

Access all areas - didn’t play v crows due to a soft tissue injury so I’m assuming that will take 2-3 weeks to recover in his age

 

[SXT15]

OUT: Archie (even Fages was clearly annoyed with him in our post match presser), Rich & McStay (mandatory)

IN: Ballenden (debut), CEY (Zorko will roll forward) & Witherden

T Berry will be needed for the Bombers to sit on Saad. He has killed us the last couple of times, & someone with the pressure skills of TB will be very handy.

 

[jackess]

Now you are the one who is being stupid.

Gawn dominated the hit outs and the hit outs to advantage. Our midfielders did a great job of getting the ball out when they got first hands on it and shutting down the Melb players when they got to it first. Absolutely zero credit should be attributed to either of our rucks.

So we dominated clearances and kept Gawn to well below his average possessions and marks and it's stupid to think our rucks didn't do a terrible job against the guy predicted to be second in the Brownlow?

 

[Quigley]

So we dominated clearances and kept Gawn to well below his average possessions and marks and it's stupid to think our rucks didn't do a terrible job against the guy predicted to be second in the Brownlow?

He managed 4 disposals under his average and was 11 hit outs above his average. He managed 157 ranking points in the game to be the second ranked player on the ground. He smashed our rucks and its fair to say he did his Brownlow chances no harm.

One of the things I noticed, particularly in the second half was that Harris was coming up the ground quite a bit to contests and spoiled a number, even just outside our forward 50, at which Gawn contested. We obviously put a lot of work into trying to limit Gawn's influence on the game. I did see Oscar putting a bit of work in around the ground trying to limit Gawn's possessions but I did not see Archie doing much of the same.

What exactly did you think Archie offered on the day and what do you think he could potentially give going forward that would warrant us investing more games into him? Personally I have seen nothing this year to suggest he will be a player. He has returned 4.7 disposals and 11.3 hit outs per game and is a non-factor anywhere other than specifically in the ruck contest itself.

 

[martinson]

I think I'm fairly positive about all our players and try to see the good in Archie but I just don't think he warrants a game on anything I've seen over the last couple of years.

He just doesn't compete hard enough. Can't bend over ,can't kick ,can't mark,gets out busseled in ruck contests. I really want him to be competitive and I can see we need him because if Oscar goes down god knows what happens then so maybe they're trying to get some games into him hoping he'll come good.

So the logic of it is fine but he's a liability when he's out there .

Perhaps they consider we just have no other options . Which to my way of thinking isn't true.

 

[jackess]

He managed 4 disposals under his average and was 11 hit outs above his average. He managed 157 ranking points in the game to be the second ranked player on the ground. He smashed our rucks and its fair to say he did his Brownlow chances no harm.

One of the things I noticed, particularly in the second half was that Harris was coming up the ground quite a bit to contests and spoiled a number, even just outside our forward 50, at which Gawn contested. We obviously put a lot of work into trying to limit Gawn's influence on the game. I did see Oscar putting a bit of work in around the ground trying to limit Gawn's possessions but I did not see Archie doing much of the same.

What exactly did you think Archie offered on the day and what do you think he could potentially give going forward that would warrant us investing more games into him? Personally I have seen nothing this year to suggest he will be a player. He has returned 4.7 disposals and 11.3 hit outs per game and is a non-factor anywhere other than specifically in the ruck contest itself.

Individually and superficially he's been poor. I wouldn't have played him against Melbourne and wouldn't play him again unless both Oscar and Stef were injured.

As Fagan said, Melbourne are one of the best clearance teams and I was expecting to get comfortably beaten based on our last few games. However, we comfortably beat them. So the midfield unit as a whole far exceeded my expectations and I don't think this would've been possible if Archie was the massive liability you and other posters believe he was. Gawn also had little influence around the ground.

 

[martinson]

Individually and superficially he's been poor. I wouldn't have played him against Melbourne and wouldn't play him again unless both Oscar and Stef were injured.

As Fagan said, Melbourne are one of the best clearance teams and I was expecting to get comfortably beaten based on our last few games. However, we comfortably beat them. So the midfield unit as a whole far exceeded my expectations and I don't think this would've been possible if Archie was the massive liability you and other posters believe he was. Gawn also had little influence around the ground.

It was evident though Jackess that when Oscar was rucking we seemed to be in control , he actually competed strongly and won some clearances himself ,and when Archie was rucking they seemed to be able to win the ball around the stoppages. Around the ground I didn't see anything Archie did to nullify Gawn . We tended to kick it away from him , besides conditions weren't good for marking.

Let's face it ,he was poor. But if they want to give him another game that's fine . I just don't quite understand how he's gone so far backwards from the guy who was actually able to win the ball himself occasionally when he started out.

 

[Brett C]

He managed 4 disposals under his average and was 11 hit outs above his average. He managed 157 ranking points in the game to be the second ranked player on the ground. He smashed our rucks and its fair to say he did his Brownlow chances no harm.

One of the things I noticed, particularly in the second half was that Harris was coming up the ground quite a bit to contests and spoiled a number, even just outside our forward 50, at which Gawn contested. We obviously put a lot of work into trying to limit Gawn's influence on the game. I did see Oscar putting a bit of work in around the ground trying to limit Gawn's possessions but I did not see Archie doing much of the same.

What exactly did you think Archie offered on the day and what do you think he could potentially give going forward that would warrant us investing more games into him? Personally I have seen nothing this year to suggest he will be a player. He has returned 4.7 disposals and 11.3 hit outs per game and is a non-factor anywhere other than specifically in the ruck contest itself.

While I don't disagree that Gawn played well he didn't poll any coaches votes so that probably tells you a lot about his actual impact.

I've never been the biggest fan of Archie but Oscar doesn't have the tank to play as sole ruckman. Who would you see coming in to give him a cut out? We could use Mcstay for the forward 50 ruck contest.