Chris Judd - Greatest player of the 21st Century (so far)

[00Stinger]

So what players would people take in there team before Judd INCLUDING his west coast eagles form?

I would possibly take Chad Cornes, Franklin, Sandilands, and MAYBE Reiwoldt ahead of him, but that's it. Ablett I would take right after him. Hodge wouldn't be top 30.

Ablett would be the first player picked

 

[blues4flag]

MVPs?



WGAF?



erm statistically Ablett has had 4 better seasons than Judd's peak...

I gaf. When you're talking about better careers it encompasses the full 10 years, not the period that they were elite.

As I already stated, statistics are a very poor indication. Champions data points give a fairer estimation, because they take into account the fact Geelong averaged 100 more touches per game between 2008-2010 than WC did between 2002-2006. Raw numbers are obviously skewed when 22 possessions was enough to be top 15 in the league in 2004, while today you wouldn't be in the top 50.

 

[Bombers 2003]

It depends what criteria you use to define best player. Do we rank their individual seasons? If so, Ablett would have 3 of the top 5, but Judd 9 of the top 15.

Do we rate individual games? Both have had their fair share of brilliant games and while Ablett might have more in the top 50, Judd would have more 'elite' games.

Do we rate them at their absolute best? It's arguable whether Judd's best is better than Ablett's but there's no doubt that Ablett's been at his best for far longer.

Judd might no longer be at his best, but his current output is enough to put him in the top 2 or 3 midfielders in the competition, and has been for the best part of 8 years. Ablett's been numero uno for 5.

i agree with this

 

[Monkey King]

So what players would people take in there team before Judd INCLUDING his west coast eagles form?

I would possibly take Chad Cornes, Franklin, Sandilands, and MAYBE Reiwoldt ahead of him, but that's it. Ablett I would take right after him. Hodge wouldn't be top 30.

It's a good question and most likely you'd go the best KPP's first. If I were picking a list to perform every year of this century so far, Judd would definitely be the first midfielder I'd go for. Can't think of anyone else who's given such a consistently high level of performance over the course. Probably Ablett would come next, followed by Cousins and Voss, who'd be getting ready to leave around the time Ablett started to come on.

 

[Doro]

According to Champion data BigFooty thread stats, Chris Judd is clearly the greatest footballer of recent memory with over 32% more posts about him than the second most talked about player in the league.








apologies, I completely made this up-sounds correct though

 

[dmolebball]

I am a Geelong supporter and found it hard to love Gary after he left us but have fallen in love with him after his success this season. To be fair if your taking about the better player this century you would have to go Judd on the basis he has been better for more seasons but i have no doubt that Ablett will surpass that before his career his done, not even sure if he has peaked yet and you have to remember the Judd of West Coast, not the Judd of Carlton there was no questioning his ability back then and has gone from one of the most beloved players to one gets mixed responses from the public probably due to the fact that Carlton supporters over hype him so much (not saying he doesn't deserve it) but certain fans have ruined it for the wider football community and too much pressure is put on him. I realized this when i begun begging he would lose this brownlow because of the prior attention he was given when 3 years ago i would have been cheering him on.

 

[PP34]

Juddy's been a gun since he entered the league. The same cannot be said for Gazza. Both are amazing players.

 

[Jade]

If I had to choose Wayne Carey or Buddy Franklin at the same age, I'd take Carey every day of the week. Carey also played in the golden era of key defenders in the AFL, there has been scant quality defenders in the Buddy era compared to whom Carey faced.

And yes, I rate Simon Black's career higher then Cousins, cause he was more consistent over a longer period of time.

Two problems here:

1) Carey played on great defenders. Buddy has played on great DEFENSE.

2) Black has been an outstanding player for a long period of time. Cousins was a freakin gun - better than Black - who was derailed for very public reasons.

Back on topic Hawthorn fans have a warped and bitter hate for Judd for some reason.

Hawks fans?

I think most have a deep and justified disgust for Carlton.

 

[John Dorian]

West Coast Judd > Gary Ablett > Carlton Judd

 

[A Swallow]

It's a fairly obvious thing, when anyone who doesn't follow Carlton can see through neutral eyes and realize Ablett is better than Judd. Can do everything Judd can do, but better, and can do a lot Judd couldn't even fathom.

 

[juddy_Like]

It seems to me that people on BF have really short memories. Saying Chris Judd is the most overrated player this decade is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time (probaly more than the old 'Judd is only better than Hodge at sprinting' argument some Hawks supporters used to throw up).

Chris Judd at West Coast is a completely different player than the one at Carlton. Is he a worst player?? No. Just his role and position at the club has changed. West Coast Judd was a line-breaking, impossible to catch, highlight machine that had superstars all over the field. Judd at Carlton is a more inside, take the hit, set up team-mates type who isn't as flashy and isn't going to be statiscally better. His influence on games is still the same but until Murphy, Gibbs & co matures like Cousins, Kerr and Embley were, he can't and doesn't play the same role as he once did.

Is he the greatest player of the 21st century?? Personally I would say yes but I can see the same argument for Gablett.

 

[Peck]

Gary Ablett has been brilliant since 2007, Chris Judd has been brilliant since 2004, Chris Judd is ONE year older. These are the key facts for me.

 

[blues4flag]

Gary Ablett has been brilliant since 2007, Chris Judd has been brilliant since 2004, Chris Judd is ONE year older. These are the key facts for me.

That's it for me in a nutshell. Even though Ablett's been undoubtedly the competition's best player since 07, Judd's been 3rd. That differential isn't enough to span the gulf created over the previous 5 years.

 

[tazhawk]

West Coast Judd > Gary Ablett > Carlton Judd

End thread/

 

[hawkman]

Gary Ablett has been brilliant since 2007, Chris Judd has been brilliant since 2004, Chris Judd is ONE year older. These are the key facts for me.

I think Judd's 2005 was average until the final series

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I gaf. When you're talking about better careers it encompasses the full 10 years, not the period that they were elite.

Judd's early career is massively overrated, Nicole Kidman Effect in play there.

As I already stated, statistics are a very poor indication. Champions data points give a fairer estimation, because they take into account the fact Geelong averaged 100 more touches per game between 2008-2010 than WC did between 2002-2006. Raw numbers are obviously skewed when 22 possessions was enough to be top 15 in the league in 2004, while today you wouldn't be in the top 50.

21.8 touches scraped Judd into the top 20 in 2004, behind such footballing luminaries as Kane and Jason Johnson, Paul Licuria and Adam Yze.

 

[Blue Spirit]

After winning the first 3 flags of the century I'm surprised no Brisbane Lions players have been mentioned. Voss, J.Brown, Blacky and Aker were pretty damned good players!

But the best must be Chris Judd. His pace and blind turns at West Coast were electrifying and he has adapted himself to become a strong inside player, who like Ablett Snr and Carey, can often turn a match in a quarter.

Ablett Jnr second - scintallating.

What about James Hird? He certainly played a lot of footy this century and was easily one of the best players to watch. He almost won a brownlow this century, won his club's B&F, made All Australian and also came back after horrific facial injury. PLUS 2 ANZAC DAY MEDALS!

Jimmy Bartel, Goodes, Ben Cousins, Buddy and Andrew McLeod certainly worth a mention. Big game players too.

But I think Natanui could overtake them all!

 

[lionel_luthor]

I have no doubt that if St.Kilda drafted Judd instead of Luke Ball, they would have won at least 2 or 3 flags.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I have no doubt that if St.Kilda drafted Judd instead of Luke Ball, they would have won at least 2 or 3 flags.

Whilst I'm sure if Carlton drafted Selwood instead of Gibbs and Cotchin instead of Kreuzer, you would be playing in a GF this year.

See, two can play at this game.

 

[bacon buster]

is it about the best career now is it? not who is the better player (which Ablett has been established as)

you could maybe argue Judd has had a slightly more consistent career based on their early seasons.

i am supremely confident that Ablett is going to have a much better end to his career. i see him winning a flag with Gold Coast as captain, and best player. i don't see Judd doing that at Carlton, at least not as an 'elite' player by the time it happens (hopefully it never does :|)

both fantastic players. it's no shame that Judd is behind Ablett though.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Even a whole Hodge would a disappointment tbh, but Gibbs is tracking better than Hodge was at 22yo consistency wise, just needs an AA type year under his belt.

So you would be gutted if Gibbs achieves what Luke Hodge has by 27?

*3 All Australians
*2 Best & Fairests
*Norm Smith Medal
*Rated a Top 5 player in the comp when in form

You would really be "dissapointed", if Gibbs manages those feats by 27? He has 4 years to do better. I will lay 10 to 1 that he doesn't even get close to thos kind of accolades by 27.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think I have ever met anyone else like you in all my time. Every other Carlton supporter would be over the ****ing moon, if Gibbs or Kreuzer managed those feats by 27. You really are one of a kind if you would be disspointed with Gibbs or Kreuzer racking up a Norm Smith medal, 2 Best & Fairests and 3 All Australians in the next 4 years.

I will tell you what, if those two can achieve that combined over the next 4 years, Carlton people would be happy.

 

[blues4flag]

21.8 touches scraped Judd into the top 20 in 2004, behind such footballing luminaries as Kane and Jason Johnson, Paul Licuria and Adam Yze.

He also had significantly more tackles, contested possessions, clearances, goals and bounces than Kane and Jason Johnson, Paul Licuria and Adam Yze.

It was a different era of football, when the calibre of a footballer was judged not by the number of possessions next to his name, but by the impact he had on the contest.

 

[Monkey King]

So you would be gutted if Gibbs achieves what Luke Hodge has by 27?

Lost your reading glasses Donk? I said I would be gutted if they only turned out half as good. Was the truth of what I said not dramatic enough for you? And I've no doubt every Blues fan would back me up on that point.

*3 All Australians
*2 Best & Fairests
*Norm Smith Medal
*Rated a Top 5 player in the comp when in form

You would really be "dissapointed", if Gibbs manages those feats by 27? He has 4 years (5 years actually, Hodge has played 10 seasons, Gibbs 5) to do better. I will lay 10 to 1 that he doesn't even get close to thos kind of accolades by 27.

But your claim was - if Gibbs or Kreuzer end up being half the player Hodge is - nothing to do with accolades by 27yo; that's your edited version. And yes, I would be gutted if that eventuated and disappointed if they ended up only as good as Hodge, who is not close to being a top 10 player after 10 seasons, despite perhaps rare form shunting him up there occasionally.

It's really a funny little way of looking at it, including awards that represent other players performances as much as your own. I mean really, if Hodge had to compete in a B&F against Judd, I doubt he'd have 3 B&F's. Or in Krezuer's case, only having generally the one AA ruck spot to aim for, compared to Hodge lining up on a HBF opposite to Joel Bowden.

Nah, if we're looking at "the player Hodge is" it really just comes down to his onfield output. Murphy has overtaken Hodge IMO and I would be disappointed if Gibbs wasn't at least as good as Murphy. He's already ahead of Hodge in terms of consistency at the same age, just needs to bang up an AA type year. Krezuer is the most impressive of any draftee I've seen at Carlton in 20 years, so yes, I'd be disappointed if his career ended up as patchy as Hodge's has been over 10 seasons.

 

[Monkey King]

Whilst I'm sure if Carlton drafted Selwood instead of Gibbs and Cotchin instead of Kreuzer, you would be playing in a GF this year.

See, two can play at this game.

Eh? All you're really saying is those boys were injured during finals. No guarantee Cotchin or Selwood wouldn't have been injured as Blues too. Had both players been fit, there's equal chance no matter who was drafted IMO.

It's not like at Hawthorn, where Ellis/Pendlebury, Thorp/Selwood, Dowler/Ryder would have possibly snagged you another couple of flags by now, injuries or not. And I didn't have to go 6 picks after a player to find someone better, all were within 2 picks

 

[lionel_luthor]

I'll cop the Selwood over Gibbs argument, but no way is Cotchin a better player than Kruezer, aside from the fact big blokes take longer to develop and he came back from a knee reco.

His game against the Swans this year at Etihad, when he tore Mumford a new one, shows how good Kruezer can and WILL be.
Not saying Cotchin can't play, he's a gun and future Tigers captain, but Kruezer is the type of player we will build our flag hopes around next year and beyond