Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

[Partridge]

He only really went out and got players from other clubs for the last couple of years.

Not quite. He got Caddy, Rivers, and McIntosh all in 2012.

He has played plenty of kids as well, but either they have got injured (e.g. Menzel, Vardy, Cowan, McCarthy) or haven't come on (e.g. Horlin-Smith, Bews, Kolojasnij). If you want to blame someone, blame the medical or fitness staff for not being able to put players on the field who don't break down constantly. Or maybe blame the development staff, who haven't been able to develop our youngsters. Not everything is the coach's responsibility.

True, but someone has to be. It remains murky who it is.

Caddy was a lazy-ass, who didn't go for the hard ball. As for Dangerfield, are you saying that we shouldn't have tried to get possibly the second best player in the AFL? Would you have preferred that we turned down his request to play for us? Scott Selwood cost us nothing, so it is a good risk to take.

Caddy may be many things, but I can't recall him ever avoiding the hard ball. Dangerfield was like Ottens to me, right player available, worth the investment. Scott Selwood didn't cost us nothing, he's taking up a list spot.

What about picking Zack Smith? He is in his early 20's, so he is young. Is that not a far pick-up?

Zac Smith is 27. In football terms he's far from young.

What would you have Scott do? Retire Lonergan and Mackie early, and play kids instead. We will get smashed in defence. Would you prefer all youngsters, retire all our veterans and bottom out? Or recruit players from other clubs, and develop some youngsters, like we have, and try for a flag.

I would prefer the vast majority of the time to keep draft picks and develop our own players. Don't see any reason why that means bottoming out.

Having Danger, Henderson, Smith and S.Selwood isn't a failure, because they have been there for ONE year. Just because we didn't win the flag this year, doesn't mean it was a wrong decision (maybe you hope it fails, so that you can blame Chris Scott for it).

True. But it wasn't a success either. The jury is still out.

Besides, do you know what Danger, Henderson, S. Selwood etc all have in common? They are around 23-29. We have few players in that age bracket, and most of our team were either 29+ or 22 and under. That would mean that we would drop down the ladder for a couple of years if we didn't bring in players of that age. Besides, we will get 5-6 years out of them if they don't get injured. Zac Tuohy also looks like a very good pick-up as well, is durable and gives us some pace off half-back.

23 is a bit of a stretch. Henderson is 27, and both Dangerfield and Selwood turn 27 in a few weeks.

Look, we need another key forward, to help out Hawkins, and some speed and pace in our midfield. I think we aren't far off, but we need a bigger workrate from some of our other midfielders, and to fill the holes I mentioned. I would also play Blicavs off the wing, or as a linebreaker, since he has pace. What tagger in the league is both tall enough and quick enough to beat him?

But why would anyone tag him? He doesn't win enough of the ball and doesn't hurt the opposition when he does. He's been tried off the wing before (notoriously in the 2014 Qualifying Final) and has been found wanting. In any case, he may be quick for a big guy, but he's not that quick overall.

Personally, I would like to see us trade for off-casts from GWS and Gold Coast over the next couple of seasons. Kids who can play, are still young, but have a couple of seasons in them too, and are high-quality.

Great idea, but what are we going to trade with?

 

[Vdubs]

Post #6659
You said ling etc gone only selwood left
I replied with
Hawkins, Mackie, Taylor, Lonergan still available for selection that's it.

My reply was to the post about GAJ, Mackie, Bomber.


To your post I was mainly referring to our midfield depth if you read the previous posts.

You are not replying to the appropriate posts.

 

[Spazz Cat]

A lot of you don't like Chris Scott because you believe he forced your beloved Paul Chapman to leave the club.

Chappy lies about things, and his comments about Brendan Goddard show that he is not a team man either.

Ever wonder why Paul Chapman was not in the leadership group at Geelong?

What did he lie about?
Do you just bag the shit out of anyone who's not at the club anymore?
Polly Farmer left to go play for West Perth in the 60's. Maybe you should smear his character too?

 

[Spazz Cat]

Got BOG in the final H&A game v WCE iirc.
There was more to it, clearly.
Mackie was worth keeping, and had great knowledge of the relationship BT had with GAJ

Maybe he should of delisted our most dangerous forward for calling the captain Joeley.

 

[Ray Donovan]

My reply was to the post about GAJ, Mackie, Bomber.


To your post I was mainly referring to our midfield depth if you read the previous posts.

You are not replying to the appropriate posts.

Nope only read the one and it didn't say midfield depth. The one I left the comment too.

And I was replying to GTOA as to why it was relevant when I said one sentence with player names to push his Thompson was a horrible coach player manager towards the end innuendo.

You replied directly to that comment! I asked why is it relevant plus mackie's not a mid so wouldn't be in the previous convo

 

[Vdubs]

Nope only read the one and it didn't say midfield depth. The one I left the comment too.

And I was replying to GTOA as to why it was relevant when I said one sentence with player names to push his Thompson was a horrible coach player manager towards the end innuendo.

You replied directly to that comment! I asked why is it relevant plus mackie's not a mid so wouldn't be in the previous convo

So why did I only mention all our mids and no other players like Taylor, Hawk, Mackie ?
Anyway, I know what I was referring to.
And your post that I took the liberty to reply to was your reply to GTOA.
Is this clear? We might need an independent arbitrator??
Not serious.

 

[Ray Donovan]

So why did I only mention all our mids and no other players like Taylor, Hawk, Mackie ?
Anyway, I know what I was referring to.
And your post that I took the liberty to reply to was your reply to GTOA.
Is this clear? We might need an independent arbitrator??
Not serious.

Dubs that's fine you were talking about mids.

Its pretty obvious you replied to my comment to GTOA dubs. I don't think anyone questioned that.

And you answered a question I asked someone else. That's what happened !

When I put four names down thinking it was players from previous era still on list not mid specific. GTOA telling me that Mackie was going to leave if Thompson stayed and he forced gaz out and he read this in the herald sun. I will ask why or how is this relevant ? To my quote

why did I need a run down on how bad bomber was in 2010 and how great Chris Scott was compared to bomber.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Not quite. He got Caddy, Rivers, and McIntosh all in 2012.



True, but someone has to be. It remains murky who it is.



Caddy may be many things, but I can't recall him ever avoiding the hard ball. Dangerfield was like Ottens to me, right player available, worth the investment. Scott Selwood didn't cost us nothing, he's taking up a list spot.



Zac Smith is 27. In football terms he's far from young.



I would prefer the vast majority of the time to keep draft picks and develop our own players. Don't see any reason why that means bottoming out.



True. But it wasn't a success either. The jury is still out.



23 is a bit of a stretch. Henderson is 27, and both Dangerfield and Selwood turn 27 in a few weeks.



But why would anyone tag him? He doesn't win enough of the ball and doesn't hurt the opposition when he does. He's been tried off the wing before (notoriously in the 2014 Qualifying Final) and has been found wanting. In any case, he may be quick for a big guy, but he's not that quick overall.



Great idea, but what are we going to trade with?

Blame the fitness staff, or development coaches for not developing players. New meaning to a coaching group that has no responsibility for itself.

Blicav's has pace and can break lines ? We can tag sel or danger or blic hmmm?

5th oldest list in AFL Geelong I believe the oldest average age is west coast at 24 years 330 days. Realistically though GWS and W.C are both younger than Geelong experienced pickups skewed this list we should be top 3 that's with enright and Bartel out.

Caddy lazy ass can't get a contested ball rated elite midfield forward by champion data.

Our future plan raid gold coast and GWS out cast high quality talent trade our draft picks out for youngsters with inflated salary coming off rookie deals. That are high quality though

 

[BlightysCats]

So given this, Chris Scott is the third most successful coach in the league

No he isn't! Clarkson, Beveridge, Longmire, and Worsfold are ahead of him, and going on the last half decade Ross Lyon and Simpson are as well.

 

[GTOA]

Blame the fitness staff, or development coaches for not developing players. New meaning to a coaching group that has no responsibility for itself.

Blicav's has pace and can break lines ? We can tag sel or danger or blic hmmm?

5th oldest list in AFL Geelong I believe the oldest average age is west coast at 24 years 330 days. Realistically though GWS and W.C are both younger than Geelong experienced pickups skewed this list we should be top 3 that's with enright and Bartel out.

Caddy lazy ass can't get a contested ball rated elite midfield forward by champion data.

Our future plan raid gold coast and GWS out cast high quality talent trade our draft picks out for youngsters with inflated salary coming off rookie deals. That are high quality though

Yes. You can blame fitness or development staff.

It isn't just the responsibility of the coach, but those under him. I doubt Scott has a medical degree, so he can't tell the doctors how to do their job properly, because they are expected to know what they are doing. Same with fitness staff.

All the time you hear of sports scientists at the club overruling the coach, like goal-kicking practice and how much to do?

The coach's main job is to run training, and match day, as well as take the press conferences. He can't be responsible and doesn't have the time to make sure all 38 players are fit and well.

If Chris Scott is 100% the reason that we haven't won a flag in the last five years, then you also have to give him 100% of the credit when we win it, not the fitness or medical staff. Can't blame him for the failures, and not credit him with the successes, unless, of course, you are a hater, (which you are).

If Josh Caddy is SO good, then how come it was only Danger and Selwood getting possessions in our midfield last year. Caddy is a talent, but he didn't rack up 30 possessions or kick more than two goals in any game. He made fleeting appearances. I don't think Champion Data takes laziness into account. Watch when Richmond lose games this year, and Caddy goes missing during those games.

 

[GTOA]

No he isn't! Clarkson, Beveridge, Longmire, and Worsfold are ahead of him, and going on the last half decade Ross Lyon and Simpson are as well.

Are you counting Grand Final losses?

A loss in the GF is still not winning. So, how can Longmire or Worsfold be held up as better coaches, unless they have won MORE flags than Scott?

I thought that winning the flag is the ultimate to you people. So you would be happy if we played in more Grand Finals, but didn't win them?

Ross Lyon and Adam Simpson have failed on the big day, so unless they win a flag, they are behind Chris Scott for flags.

I bet that you wish we had lost the GF in 2011, so that Chris Scott wouldn't have any premierships to his credit.

 

[GTOA]

What did he lie about?
Do you just bag the shit out of anyone who's not at the club anymore?
Polly Farmer left to go play for West Perth in the 60's. Maybe you should smear his character too?

Chapman lied about the "10 games max" contract he was offered.

That wouldn't happen. No coach can guarantee any players any games, so to restrict someone to "10 games" , is ludicrious, and unlikely to be true. Besides, has anyone seen proof that it was offered, or is it just Chapman saying it?

Also, some of the things he told the press are lies, and he was ungrateful for DEMANDING a two-year contract, then going to Essendon for LESS money and years than he demanded from Geelong, because his mate Bomber was coaching them for a year.

 

[catempire]

Some insights from the CEO:

Cook said the goal this year was to finish top-four. As it has been for years. It’s the same benchmark he and the club have set since the watershed 2004 season when the baby Cats rocketed to a preliminary final — starting a run of 11 finals appearances from the past 13 seasons, including nine top four finishes.

It’s why Cook can’t understand the undercurrent of disquiet from factions of Geelong supporters who have doubts over Chris Scott.

“Some people say, ‘does Chris deserve an extra contract?’ ” he said. “I get astounded by that to be honest, because he’s been here six years, he’s won 17 games (on average) each year for six years, he’s pretty much transitioned the whole list except for 10 players, he won a premiership. It’s a pretty good effort.

“It’s not in my psyche to easily accept that (anti-coach) talk, but I do know that members have the right to voice their opinion, so you live with that.”

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...b/news-story/cfafb7b07547ad50e2cf6f9c7812d5ff

 

[Landgraft]

Caddy lazy ass can't get a contested ball rated elite midfield forward by champion data.

It's interesting isn't it. The big question is how many mid/fwd players they have and what sort of players are on that list. Remember that elite by CD just means top 10% in position instead of any actual qualities, you could average 2 possessions 5 clangers and be elite if there were 9 other players in your position averaging 1 possession 10 clangers.

Edit: For whatever its worth I don't really care that much about anything CD say. They're more inclined to deal in alternate facts.

 

[dazbroncos]

$1 million a year in lost profits, money the Cats will recoup with interest through corporate and hospitality services in the new Brownlow Stand.

“The stand gives us $1.5 million (in profits) — so it’s half-a-million difference,” Cook said.

“We decided on a business model where we’d give up $1 million of cash each year from the gaming in order to get a new football facility that will set us up for the next 20 years.

“That’s the business model, it’s about reinforcing our football facilities and ensuring we have what’s required in football.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...b/news-story/cfafb7b07547ad50e2cf6f9c7812d5ff

Definitely sounds like Cookie has lost the plot, is doing it all for his ego and needs to go...

Those 20 year forward looking infrastructure plans and debt clearance schemes reek of his ego and losing the plot. Must be one of those Robin Hood type ego things... take from the rich and distribute to the masses for the betterment of the club going forward...

Go Catters

 

[Biggy_Boy]

It's interesting isn't it. The big question is how many mid/fwd players they have and what sort of players are on that list. Remember that elite by CD just means top 10% in position instead of any actual qualities, you could average 2 possessions 5 clangers and be elite if there were 9 other players in your position averaging 1 possession 10 clangers.

Edit: For whatever its worth I don't really care that much about anything CD say. They're more inclined to deal in alternate facts.

Yeah, CD, the company providing measures of what's happening in the game, are providing alternate facts, not the armchair experts calling Caddy lazy. That measure of attitude is a real tangible, not these 'stats' CD produce.

 

[Ray Donovan]

It's interesting isn't it. The big question is how many mid/fwd players they have and what sort of players are on that list. Remember that elite by CD just means top 10% in position instead of any actual qualities, you could average 2 possessions 5 clangers and be elite if there were 9 other players in your position averaging 1 possession 10 clangers.

Edit: For whatever its worth I don't really care that much about anything CD say. They're more inclined to deal in alternate facts.

Your reaching mate I don't always agree with CD quite often don't so yes its top 10% of position.

But you also need a formula to rank and grade the players. Your hypothetical scenario needs to get a little closer to reality before I could address it

 

[Ray Donovan]

Yes. You can blame fitness or development staff.

It isn't just the responsibility of the coach, but those under him. I doubt Scott has a medical degree, so he can't tell the doctors how to do their job properly, because they are expected to know what they are doing. Same with fitness staff.

All the time you hear of sports scientists at the club overruling the coach, like goal-kicking practice and how much to do?

The coach's main job is to run training, and match day, as well as take the press conferences. He can't be responsible and doesn't have the time to make sure all 38 players are fit and well.

If Chris Scott is 100% the reason that we haven't won a flag in the last five years, then you also have to give him 100% of the credit when we win it, not the fitness or medical staff. Can't blame him for the failures, and not credit him with the successes, unless, of course, you are a hater, (which you are).

If Josh Caddy is SO good, then how come it was only Danger and Selwood getting possessions in our midfield last year. Caddy is a talent, but he didn't rack up 30 possessions or kick more than two goals in any game. He made fleeting appearances. I don't think Champion Data takes laziness into account. Watch when Richmond lose games this year, and Caddy goes missing during those games.

Just for self reflection read my quote and work out where I mention Chris Scott at all. I'm replying directly to YOUR opinion words out of your mouth.

Then you gave reasons to validate your own opinion which you came up with. So what your saying is the fitness staff or development coaches are to blame for the issues I haven't mentioned or don't know what they are? And it has nothing to do with Chris Scott I gather.

The most amusing part for mine was the if its a 100% Chris scotts fault we haven't won a flag in last 5 years ( made up point by you) then he gets 100% credit when we win not fitness staff not development coaches all C.Scott. That makes no sense think about it considering no one argued that point. You are arguing yourself into a debate position

Yeah again never mentioned anything about it being Chris Scotts fault we haven't won a flag in 5 years you made that up again. And never discredited the flag he won in 2011 fantastic effort excellent coaching performance.

You need some evidence to prove these accusations and I said these things which I didn't. You made it up !

Listen I'm not even going go into the josh caddy stuff all I can say is look at the actually stats before it comes out of your mouth when you say he never racked up 30 ( he did rd 6 ). And never kicked over two goals ( I actually went to rd 1 v hawthorn). I can't be bothered looking into how many times he did either I just checked the quick stats and both points you made completely wrong.

He missed about 6 weeks with a knee and still kicked (20) goals and averaged 20 disposals.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Are you counting Grand Final losses?

A loss in the GF is still not winning. So, how can Longmire or Worsfold be held up as better coaches, unless they have won MORE flags than Scott?

I thought that winning the flag is the ultimate to you people. So you would be happy if we played in more Grand Finals, but didn't win them?

Ross Lyon and Adam Simpson have failed on the big day, so unless they win a flag, they are behind Chris Scott for flags.

I bet that you wish we had lost the GF in 2011, so that Chris Scott wouldn't have any premierships to his credit.

Lol wish Geelong had lost so Chris Scott had never gotten a flag your the worst blighty

 

[BlightysCats]

Are you counting Grand Final losses?

A loss in the GF is still not winning. So, how can Longmire or Worsfold be held up as better coaches, unless they have won MORE flags than Scott?

I thought that winning the flag is the ultimate to you people. So you would be happy if we played in more Grand Finals, but didn't win them?

Ross Lyon and Adam Simpson have failed on the big day, so unless they win a flag, they are behind Chris Scott for flags.

I bet that you wish we had lost the GF in 2011, so that Chris Scott wouldn't have any premierships to his credit.

I'm counting Preliminary Final wins.

 

[BlightysCats]

Some insights from the CEO:



http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...b/news-story/cfafb7b07547ad50e2cf6f9c7812d5ff

Notice he doesn't mention finals, or the fact every team in the comp has transitioned its list over the last 6 years as much or more than we have; Cook is besotted with Scott and doesn't have the guts to make a hard call on him, like many on here he fears change at the top despite the countless examples locally and internationally in recent years of a change of coach/manager bringing improvement in results. Geelong are supposedly in the game of success or 'greatness,' well where is it? Is the definition of losing a Prelim in the first 10 minutes 'greatness?' does winning 2 finals from 8 attempts in the last half decade exhibit 'greatness?' Is consistently losing after the bye 'greatness?' Is failing to develop any A-grade player in the last 6 years 'greatness?' Is having to employ a DOC because of communication problems Chris Scott has with players 'greatness?' Is trading away draft picks for mature age recruits and mercenaries with a success now mantra then not achieving that success 'greatness?'

Greatness might be our tradition (2007-20011) but it most certainly doesn't seem to be our 'Ambition' with our current football department strategy.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

$1 million a year in lost profits, money the Cats will recoup with interest through corporate and hospitality services in the new Brownlow Stand.

“The stand gives us $1.5 million (in profits) — so it’s half-a-million difference,” Cook said.

“We decided on a business model where we’d give up $1 million of cash each year from the gaming in order to get a new football facility that will set us up for the next 20 years.

“That’s the business model, it’s about reinforcing our football facilities and ensuring we have what’s required in football.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...b/news-story/cfafb7b07547ad50e2cf6f9c7812d5ff

Definitely sounds like Cookie has lost the plot, is doing it all for his ego and needs to go...

Those 20 year forward looking infrastructure plans and debt clearance schemes reek of his ego and losing the plot. Must be one of those Robin Hood type ego things... take from the rich and distribute to the masses for the betterment of the club going forward...

Go Catters

Has that completely got us off the gaming gravy train? if so then massive kudos to Cook.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Notice he doesn't mention finals, or the fact every team in the comp has transitioned its list over the last 6 years as much or more than we have; Cook is besotted with Scott and doesn't have the guts to make a hard call on him, like many on here he fears change at the top despite the countless examples locally and internationally in recent years of a change of coach/manager bringing improvement in results. Geelong are supposedly in the game of success or 'greatness,' well where is it? Is the definition of losing a Prelim in the first 10 minutes 'greatness?' does winning 2 finals wins from 8 attempts in the last half decade exhibit 'greatness?' Is consistently losing after the bye 'greatness?' Is failing to develop any A-grade player in the last 6 years 'greatness?' Is having to employ a DOC because of communication problems Chris Scott has with players 'greatness?' Is trading away draft picks for mature age recruits and mercenaries with a success now mantra then not achieving that success 'greatness?'

Greatness might be our tradition (2007-20011) but it most certainly doesn't seem to be our 'Ambition' with our current football department strategy.

Haha the mercenaries nonsense again. Yeah, we failed in the Prelim. Lost it in 15 minutes, can't deny that.

We also finished 10th in 2015 so we rose 7 spots in a year, it's not all doom and gloom.
But by all means, slate Cook again, it was tiresome the first time and will be skip worthy the second time.

 

[BlightysCats]

Haha the mercenaries nonsense again. Yeah, we failed in the Prelim. Lost it in 15 minutes, can't deny that.

We also finished 10th in 2015 so we rose 7 spots in a year, it's not all doom and gloom.
But by all means, slate Cook again, it was tiresome the first time and will be skip worthy the second time.

Cook will leave us a mess on field as will Scott, when that happens I hope you take solace in sitting at GMHBA stadium looking at the stage 4 and 5 redevelopment. I know Cook certainly will.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Cook will leave us a mess on field as will Scott, when that happens I hope you take solace in sitting at GMHBA stadium looking at the stage 4 and 5 redevelopment. I know Cook certainly will.

Stop posting. Seriously.
Bullshit with every keystroke.

Cook will leave us a mess
Stop posting.