Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

[Bobby_]

More likely Jar Jar Binks.

crazy is a better example as he only listens to himself speak and thinks everything he says is the truth.

 

[Ray Donovan]

This is a straw man argument, designed to confuse and distract. Whether any team has won with a midfield of traded in or free-agent players is not actually relevant to whether Geelong could win with one. You know this right?

To start off with, free agency is in it's infancy. It started around the time that one club was dominating premierships with it's established team. That team traded in players to bolster it's spine (Hale, McAvoy, Gunston, Gibson, and I forgot to mention Lake last time). That's a serious influx of spine talent that effectively won it three premierships. This validates the concept of bringing in players from other teams, whether or not they play in the midfield. You want good players in your team that enhance your style of play or fix an urgent deficit.

Further to this, no club has had time or opportunity to put a case forward to win with a midfield with some players traded in. So there is no sample size or length of time to assess the effectiveness of a midfield comprised of free-agents or traded in players.

Secondly, Geelong was actually quite effective in it's use of it's new midfield players in 2016. We went from out of the top 8 to a third place finish. Not too bad at all. In fact it was good enough a result that other coaches, namely the master coach Alastair Clarkson, sat up and took notice. He liked the idea so much that he brought in two more mercenaries straight into his midfield. He wasn't going to rely on bottoming out and rebuilding or relying on his lowly draft-picked in-house developed midfielders, he wanted an effective boost for contention right here right now. These are apples compared to apples.

Now, if Clarkson is doing what Scott has been doing, then suddenly the concept of bringing in free-agents into the midfield becomes validated. He's not doing it for fun, and it appears that he isn't interested at all in your 'the only way to succeed is to bottom out, develop internally and avoid 'mercenaries' bleating. Rather, he is interested in the recruiting ideas of a premiership winning, highest winning percentage in regular season coach that has transitioned out a once-in-a-generation team and still competed for premierships.

Yeah how many free agents you get from where doesn't bother me. Its the cost and talent of the free agents that can worry me. If we got 10 in and they were the exact right mix for the right price go for it

 

[BlightysCats]

Anakin was a complete nutcase who tried to kill his family and friends.

Blighty is more like Admiral Akbar.

Except less attractive.

 

[Ray Donovan]

And we all know what a petulant whiner Anakin was......

Also, he turned evil, much like I see Blighty doing over the years. I see him being drawn to the Dark Side of the Force.

Lol

 

[BlightysCats]

Could have predicted our place in the 'table' regarding tall forwards having their way against us. But I am a little surprised that we're not further behind these other teams when considering small forwards getting off the leash against our defenders. Certainly seems to have been a key area of deficiency for us for some years now/ But the numbers don't really reflect it as a glaring issue when compared to other top sides

Last year we were a very good team defensively so perhaps looking at the goals scored by opposition small forwards as a percentage of their total score would be a better indicator?

 

[BlightysCats]

I see him being drawn to the Dark Side of the Force.

To be honest I'm just surprized a Geelong zealot like you doesn't already think I'm there.

 

[BlightysCats]

Thought any more about my bet then, that if Scott DOES will us a flag, you never post on the Geelong message boards ever again?

Put up or shut up!

What about if Chris Scott doesn't win the flag this year you never post again.
That's not a bet that's just an instruction.

 

[goyoucatters]

Last year we were a very good team defensively so perhaps looking at the goals scored by opposition small forwards as a percentage of their total score would be a better indicator?

You could run that analysis if you like. I don't think you'll learn a great deal more than what Biggy has already pointed out.

The top four teams for least points conceded in 2016 were Sydney, us, Western Bulldogs and GWS. Which means that the defensive 'rankings' for this group are going to remain fairly similar regardless.

 

[BlightysCats]

Just the midfield now is it? Haha, pathetic.

Best you tell the saints to give it up, turns out their rebuild has been a waste of time.

Another contradiction.

Been saying from the start that no team with mercenaries making up the core of its playing group (which is mainly the midfield of modern teams) has ever won a flag.

Try naming one....Go on??
Now name how many teams have won with a Bomber Thompson Geelong style rebuild since 2000.

 

[BlightysCats]

You could run that analysis if you like. I don't think you'll learn a great deal more than what Biggy has already pointed out.

The top four teams for least points conceded in 2016 were Sydney, us, Western Bulldogs and GWS. Which means that the defensive 'rankings' for this group are going to remain fairly similar regardless.

Yeah fair enough, though it might give a bit more of an accurate guide than just goals scored alone. What would be interesting is to see how many goals small forwards scored against us on the MCG, or larger grounds.

 

[Scottland2007]

Has been tried and, IMO, failed. Best to stick him where he has showed something at half forward.

I agree, he was shocking. Doesn't like physical contact.

 

[Scottland2007]

Anakin was a complete nutcase who tried to kill his family and friends.

Blighty is more like Admiral Akbar.

I'd reply but "it's a trap"

 

[Danger!Selwood]

If fans ran football clubs, bomber Thompson would have been sacked at the end of 2006. And half our football side would be dropped after every loss, and we would have tossed out the entire playing list after 2010 for a rebuild. There's a good reason clubs don't listen to fans because they don't know 1/100th or even close to the actual reality of what's going on.

And our game plan would be -

'Arrrgghh, will you just kick the damn ball.'

 

[Danger!Selwood]

I'll still be on the board unfortunately for you. Still completely confident Scott won't win us a flag in the rest of his reign and leave us a mess on field when he goes, and also completely confident Cook too will leave us a mess on field. Our club is being run like Russia just controlled by dictatorial oligarchs refusing to listen to the fans.

Cool, and feel free to let us know when he's finished if you're right.

In the meantime, we understand your thoughts and appreciate your opinion, now you just need to stop harping over and over.

 

[Danger!Selwood]

Been saying from the start that no team with mercenaries making up the core of its playing group (which is mainly the midfield of modern teams) has ever won a flag.

Try naming one....Go on??
Now name how many teams have won with a Bomber Thompson Geelong style rebuild since 2000.

Hawthorn in 2013- hale, Burgoyne, simpkin. Pretty easy.

Can you please explain exactly what a 'bomber thompson' rebuild is?

 

[year of the cat]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/ebccd5ab1cc797e39447b8a945a428d5

I don't believe that an extension should be entertained until mid year at the earliest, but to offer a 3 year extension through to the end of 2020 just seems excessive and unnecessary. That would bring his tenure at the club to 10 years.

The club has topped up with mature talent for quite a while now without the ultimate success of a flag. We've traded away high picks and brought in a series of FA's. Whilst that's allowed us, aside from 2015, to remain competitive, it also will likely see us fall off the proverbial cliff in the next couple of years. Interestingly enough in the meantime we've seen St Kilda, who followed a similar profile to us in the mid-2000's be prepared to be patient, fall down the ladder, pick up the elite young talent on offer and hope to experience a more sustained run at a flag in the next few years. We are now about to witness them pass us on their movement up the ladder. Whether that's enough for them to steal a flag during a likely GWS dynasty, we shall see.

Scott, along with Wells and you'd assume Hocking, decided to take us along this path. Whereas our success in the 2000's was based on prudent drafting and development, we've seemingly abandoned the very strategy that brought us the success we longed for. We've gone for quick fixes, and hoped that the players we've brought in will gel or work cohesively with those existing players within a time frame that will bring success before the likes of Enright, Taylor, Lonergan, Mackie and Selwood retire. It seems that this is looking increasingly unlikely to occur. We've attempted to follow what Hawthorn did in bringing in Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale, Lake etc but I'm increasingly of the belief we don't have the coach to meld these players all together as Clarkson has done so well at Hawthorn. There just appears a disconnect or lack of understanding or synergy that Scott can't seem to eliminate.

Furthermore we have yet to see Scott develop a game plan that truly stands up in the heat of finals. Far too often we are left perplexed by the lack of an effective method of forward movement, a team that appears to be regressing in skills and one that is these days too easy to score against. I'd be more tolerant of these problems if we were that team that had a young crop that were developing, but we have a list that we're told should be vying for a flag.

I can see us ultimately failing to win a flag in the next few years to then have Scott move on when he really never gave himself the opportunity to truly develop a list from the bottom up. He's almost doing is disservice to himself!

If I look into my crystal ball we'll make the 8 this year (finishing between 5-8), miss finals in 2018 and be bottom 6 from 2019 until we unearth and develop a brand new list.

 

[Cadillac]

And your coach needs to be told it isn't the 80's anymore, and to get his haircut which is more modern. Mullets are out.

Good you won the flag, but don't go potting us. You would have lost had you got Geelong in the GF, since we beat you twice last year.

It must have also been good to finally watch your team win a flag on a TV and on DVD, rather than via old archival footage from the library, when the Bulldogs won their previous flag.

It also must have been good for Bulldogs supporters to have something to do Grand Final day for the first time in 55 years.

Goodbye, back to your own board, mate, and take BlightyCats with you.

To be honest with you I'd much prefer my coach rocking a mullet and getting the absolute best out of his players, then have a coach like Chris carrying on like a toddler throwing a tantrum in the coaches box, and have no ability to develop any young players. I'm also pretty confident that when Murphy and Matty Boyd retire at the end of the year that Bevo will be at their retirement presser.

 

[catempire]

it also will likely see us fall off the proverbial cliff in the next couple of years.

Why?

 

[David the Cat]

To be honest with you I'd much prefer my coach rocking a mullet and getting the absolute best out of his players, then have a coach like Chris carrying on like a toddler throwing a tantrum in the coaches box, and have no ability to develop any young players. I'm also pretty confident that when Murphy and Matty Boyd retire at the end of the year that Bevo will be at their retirement presser.

View attachment 348020 View attachment 348022

Thanks Tony...I accept you were baited, but lets leave it there OK?

 

[bloodygoose]

From today's presser: CHRIS Scott and Geelong have agreed in principle on a new contract which will extend his tenure as coach of the AFL club for three years. Scott says he is committed to the Cats beyond this.

And he says the Cats think the full rebuild vs top-up model "antiquated".

Sorry BC. This thread will eclipse Tolstoy's War and Peace ...

 

[year of the cat]

Why?

Will see Mackie, Lonergan and Taylor retire in that time leaving our backline further exposed than it is currently. Selwood will be nearing the end and less effective than he is now. With only Dangerfield currently being our other elite mid we will be smashed in the midfield as teams clamp down on him. Hawkins will also be nearing the end and we currently have no realistic elite junior KPF on our books. Menzel will be likely seeing the effects of 4 knee recos after a couple more seasons so there's our current best two forwards on the wane. Motlop will be either gone or apathetic. Need any more reasons?

 

[catempire]

Will see Mackie, Lonergan and Taylor retire in that time leaving our backline further exposed than it is currently. Selwood will be nearing the end and less effective than he is now. With only Dangerfield currently being our other elite mid we will be smashed in the midfield as teams clamp down on him. Hawkins will also be nearing the end and we currently have no realistic elite junior KPF on our books. Menzel will be likely seeing the effects of 4 knee recos after a couple more seasons so there's our current best two forwards on the wane. Motlop will be either gone or apathetic. Need any more reasons?

You might be right. When I've got a bit more time I'll put forward an alternative thesis.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Stan The Caddy I believe you will imminently have a bet to collect on.
Either that or a welch badge.

Haha yeah I'm guessing the latter but you never know, stranger things have happened...

 

[BlightysCats]

Hawthorn in 2013- hale, Burgoyne, simpkin. Pretty easy.

Can you please explain exactly what a 'bomber thompson' rebuild is?

Ha, ha you think they were the core of Hawthorns playing group? Simpkin was nothing. We have Menegola, Dangerfield, S. Selwood, Smith, Stanley, 2E all running through the middle - that's a core of a team.

 

[BlightysCats]

It seems that this is looking increasingly unlikely to occur. We've attempted to follow what Hawthorn did in bringing in Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale, Lake etc but I'm increasingly of the belief we don't have the coach to meld these players all together as Clarkson has done so well at Hawthorn.

The difference is Hawthorn already had a strong core group of players that had been drafted grown and developed together who were all A graders or close to it, so were using trades to top off the list, we however had nothing except Selwood and Hawkins and are trying to build up the core of our team with traded in mercenaries, it's never worked and never will. Scott has developed absolutely nobody to be even close to an A grade player in the last 6 years and it's an indictment on him and the club, in terms of elite performance our talent under 25 at the club apart from Menegola is almost non existent.

We certainly are heading for a cliff even if Cocky and Zuthrie magically buck the overwhelming trend at Geelong and develop to their potential it still won't give us enough top quality players to be even mildly competitive.