List Mgmt. Christmas comes early (Nov 28 - 19 sleeps) - Draftee discussion

[Keys]

Link to draft picks held by each club

 

[shooshka]

You’d think we wouldn’t have to use a first rounder on Allan and could pick him up in the 20s. Most phantom drafts have him in the 20s and 30s. Could his draft combine results really push him into the first round?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

And if his combine results push him into the first round - should we be the club taking that risk?

Athletic players considered a reach in the first round should be the realm of to-8 sides in the most part. I know we hold picks in the range where those types of reaches usually occur (picks 10-15 ish), but as a club the reality still needs to exist that we are the 2nd worst in the league. Pick some players who have consistently shown they can win the ball, play in positions of need, and stay fit and healthy. We have a number of drafts before we truly contend again where we can take potential risks in the first round (and we already did so last year).

If Allen gets to 20 (23?) or 26 (29/30?) then sure, we may be better placed to take the risk.

 

[Nuffington Post]

Despite their public insistence they’d be happy to pick an interstate player, rival recruiters believe the West Coast Eagles are preparing to pounce on WA-based talent with their first two selections, which will likely end up being Picks 9 and 13 after the Ashcroft bid.

Should Ginbey be off the board by Pick 9, the Eagles will strongly consider the three other top WA prospects: Hewett, Jedd Busslinger (East Perth) and Ed Allan (Claremont).

A rangy 196cm key-position player who reads the ball superbly in the air and has great defensive nous and composure, Busslinger is regarded as the best key back in the draft class. Hewett is a powerful midfielder and renowned leader.

But Allan looms as this year’s first-round – possibly top-10 – bolter. Foxfooty.com.auunderstands the Eagles have put significant work into Allan, who was a standout at the recent national combine after an injury-interrupted 2022 campaign.

A versatile 194cm prospect that can play in any third of the ground, Allan turned heads in the 20m sprint, recording a time of 2.81 seconds – the fifth-fastest 20m sprint time in combine history – while he also presented impressively during club interviews.

Allan is the son of former Hawthorn and Fremantle midfielder Ben Allan but not eligible to either the Hawks or Dockers as his dad played 98 games for Hawthorn — two short of the 100-game minimum requirement for the father-son rule — and 47 for Fremantle.

The Eagles are keen on him – to the point where they might even consider taking him with their first pick. Foxfooty.com.auunderstands the Giants, who also hold two late first-round picks, have also put ample work into Allan.

Should the Eagles select a non-WA player with one of their first two picks, Phillipou and Sandringham Dragons’ Cameron Mackenzie would likely be their top two options.

Mackenzie, a reliable and consistent midfielder with a strong inside-outside balance and burst of speed from stoppage, has lived in England, France and Sydney during his childhood.

“The experience of living overseas does make the idea (of playing for a non-Victorian club) seem less daunting,” Mackenzie told foxfooty.com.au.

“My preference is probably to stay in Melbourne, but I just want to play footy and if I had to play (interstate), I’d definitely take the challenge and take the opportunity, have a big impact and help the team succeed.”

The article also mentions Tsatas could slide to later in the top 10. Imagine how smug O’Brien would be if we got our pick 2 target at 9.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Monocle]

Monocle or anyone else in the know, how good is Ed Allan at winning contested ball and defensive pressure? I haven't seen enough of him to judge myself, but from what I've heard he sounds like more of a wingman.

It’s a very good question SumaGodCoach and I will address the parts to it.

Last year he was played as a HBF where he was a good defender and as such his defensive pressure was good.
He also didn’t mind going for a gallop and run and carry up the ground.

This year he changed the scope of his game to midfielder and showed that he can win the contested ball.
He covers a lot of ground and to that extent his two way running and linkup play very much presents him as a very good wing prospect.

There are three things that make Allan a more difficult assessment:

The fact that there is only a small sample size of his games in his new midfield role at season end.

His style of play is not typical, as not many players 194 cm play that sort of role at the next level so any comparative comparisons are hard to find.

In many ways his combine results have catapulted him into much more favourable draft calculations.
His sprint times at the combine surprised me as it’s not that noticeable in games. He obviously has pace, but the blister jet burner pace of a kid that runs 2:81 isn’t that much of a game day stand out.
You can look at that in two ways
1. He hasn’t developed that side of his game yet, that’s a +.
Or 2. He doesn’t know how to utilise the skill set and that’s a - .

His agility score, however, didn’t surprise me at all as that’s already evident in game vision, he regularly gets himself both in and out of some very tight situations, it’s a point of difference that is rare for players over 190 cm.

To be honest pre the combine I had him sitting in the 35 onwards range.

But here is the dilemma in being able to analyse all the bits of the jigsaw puzzle.

When a kid grows 20 cm and puts on 20 kg in a relatively short period of time, and has only played a very small sample size of games at his new dimensions and in a new role, there is a lot more guess work needed in the projections as to what he might end up being.

If he stays much the same as he is now,
then he projects as a big tanked tall wingman that has a 50 / 50 % chance of making it.

However ( and here is the enticing bit) if he improves as much in the next 12 months as he has the last 12 months, then he will be a seriously good player with a unique skill set for his body type.

Apologies for such a long answer, but it wasn’t a simple question to unpack.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Monocle or anyone else in the know, how good is Ed Allan at winning contested ball and defensive pressure? I haven't seen enough of him to judge myself, but from what I've heard he sounds like more of a wingman.

I'm probably in the same camp, would like to have seen a bit more of him. But I went back and watched his game vs SA - he was purely on the wing and played very outside all day, he looked a little rushed in contested situations. We can't surely consider him with either 8 or 12, seems to high to take a tall outside player. I would've liked him to use this size and body a bit more, show a bit more aggression.

His kicking was very good, perfectly weighted

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Despite their public insistence they’d be happy to pick an interstate player, rival recruiters believe the West Coast Eagles are preparing to pounce on WA-based talent with their first two selections, which will likely end up being Picks 9 and 13 after the Ashcroft bid.

Should Ginbey be off the board by Pick 9, the Eagles will strongly consider the three other top WA prospects: Hewett, Jedd Busslinger (East Perth) and Ed Allan (Claremont).

A rangy 196cm key-position player who reads the ball superbly in the air and has great defensive nous and composure, Busslinger is regarded as the best key back in the draft class. Hewett is a powerful midfielder and renowned leader.

But Allan looms as this year’s first-round – possibly top-10 – bolter. Foxfooty.com.auunderstands the Eagles have put significant work into Allan, who was a standout at the recent national combine after an injury-interrupted 2022 campaign.

A versatile 194cm prospect that can play in any third of the ground, Allan turned heads in the 20m sprint, recording a time of 2.81 seconds – the fifth-fastest 20m sprint time in combine history – while he also presented impressively during club interviews.

Allan is the son of former Hawthorn and Fremantle midfielder Ben Allan but not eligible to either the Hawks or Dockers as his dad played 98 games for Hawthorn — two short of the 100-game minimum requirement for the father-son rule — and 47 for Fremantle.

The Eagles are keen on him – to the point where they might even consider taking him with their first pick. Foxfooty.com.auunderstands the Giants, who also hold two late first-round picks, have also put ample work into Allan.

Should the Eagles select a non-WA player with one of their first two picks, Phillipou and Sandringham Dragons’ Cameron Mackenzie would likely be their top two options.

Mackenzie, a reliable and consistent midfielder with a strong inside-outside balance and burst of speed from stoppage, has lived in England, France and Sydney during his childhood.

“The experience of living overseas does make the idea (of playing for a non-Victorian club) seem less daunting,” Mackenzie told foxfooty.com.au.

“My preference is probably to stay in Melbourne, but I just want to play footy and if I had to play (interstate), I’d definitely take the challenge and take the opportunity, have a big impact and help the team succeed.”

MacKenzie or Phillipou would be perfect! Happy with either of those two.

 

[Nuffington Post]

I'm probably in the same camp, would like to have seen a bit more of him. But I went back and watched his game vs SA - he was purely on the wing and played very outside all day, he looked a little rushed in contested situations. We can't surely consider him with either 8 or 12, seems to high to take a tall outside player. I would've liked him to use this size and body a bit more, show a bit more aggression.

His kicking was very good, perfectly weighted

Gives me Brander vibes. Tall and athletically gifted but do we know if he can actually play? And what his position is?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Chris_6678]

I worry he will end up Brander 2.0 or even Tom Lamb

Tom Lamb

Age

28

Ht

193cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.0

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.0

4star

.

 

[SumaGodCoach]

It’s a very good question SumaGodCoach and I will address the parts to it.

Last year he was played as a HBF where he was a good defender and as such his defensive pressure was good.
He also didn’t mind going for a gallop and run and carry up the ground.

This year he changed the scope of his game to midfielder and showed that he can win the contested ball.
He covers a lot of ground and to that extent his two way running and linkup play very much presents him as a very good wing prospect.

There are three things that make Allan a more difficult assessment:

The fact that there is only a small sample size of his games in his new midfield role at season end.

His style of play is not typical, as not many players 194 cm play that sort of role at the next level so any comparative comparisons are hard to find.

In many ways his combine results have catapulted him into much more favourable draft calculations.
His sprint times at the combine surprised me as it’s not that noticeable in games. He obviously has pace, but the blister jet burner pace of a kid that runs 2:81 isn’t that much of a game day stand out.
You can look at that in two ways
1. He hasn’t developed that side of his game yet, that’s a +.
Or 2. He doesn’t know how to utilise the skill set and that’s a - .

His agility score, however, didn’t surprise me at all as that’s already evident in game vision, he regularly gets himself both in and out of some very tight situations, it’s a point of difference that is rare for players over 190 cm.

To be honest pre the combine I had him sitting in the 35 onwards range.

But here is the dilemma in being able to analyse all the bits of the jigsaw puzzle.

When a kid grows 20 cm and puts on 20 kg in a relatively short period of time, and has only played a very small sample size of games at his new dimensions and in a new role, there is a lot more guess work needed in the projections as to what he might end up being.

If he stays much the same as he is now,
then he projects as a big tanked tall wingman that has a 50 / 50 % chance of making it.

However ( and here is the enticing bit) if he improves as much in the next 12 months as he has the last 12 months, then he will be a seriously good player with a unique skill set for his body type.

Apologies for such a long answer, but it wasn’t a simple question to unpack.

Why are you apologising for giving such a detailed response? Having said that I accept your apology and trust that you will be more succinct in future.

 

[DanWCE]

It’s a very good question SumaGodCoach and I will address the parts to it.

Last year he was played as a HBF where he was a good defender and as such his defensive pressure was good.
He also didn’t mind going for a gallop and run and carry up the ground.

This year he changed the scope of his game to midfielder and showed that he can win the contested ball.
He covers a lot of ground and to that extent his two way running and linkup play very much presents him as a very good wing prospect.

There are three things that make Allan a more difficult assessment:

The fact that there is only a small sample size of his games in his new midfield role at season end.

His style of play is not typical, as not many players 194 cm play that sort of role at the next level so any comparative comparisons are hard to find.

In many ways his combine results have catapulted him into much more favourable draft calculations.
His sprint times at the combine surprised me as it’s not that noticeable in games. He obviously has pace, but the blister jet burner pace of a kid that runs 2:81 isn’t that much of a game day stand out.
You can look at that in two ways
1. He hasn’t developed that side of his game yet, that’s a +.
Or 2. He doesn’t know how to utilise the skill set and that’s a - .

His agility score, however, didn’t surprise me at all as that’s already evident in game vision, he regularly gets himself both in and out of some very tight situations, it’s a point of difference that is rare for players over 190 cm.

To be honest pre the combine I had him sitting in the 35 onwards range.

But here is the dilemma in being able to analyse all the bits of the jigsaw puzzle.

When a kid grows 20 cm and puts on 20 kg in a relatively short period of time, and has only played a very small sample size of games at his new dimensions and in a new role, there is a lot more guess work needed in the projections as to what he might end up being.

If he stays much the same as he is now,
then he projects as a big tanked tall wingman that has a 50 / 50 % chance of making it.

However ( and here is the enticing bit) if he improves as much in the next 12 months as he has the last 12 months, then he will be a seriously good player with a unique skill set for his body type.

Apologies for such a long answer, but it wasn’t a simple question to unpack.

That burst speed for a quick 20m time is probably more noticeable in congestion I reckon, like watching someone step out of a pack with the ball and leave others behind. If he's winning a lot of ball on the outside in space, possibly taking a lot of marks then that pace isn't going to be illustrated as much. He has that pace in his reserve but probably doesn't need to use it as much to gain separation.

It's curious that we are noticeably slow with our current crop and most of the draftees we're being linked with have real pace. Could be a case of journos and experts doing a bit of 1 + 1 = 3

 

[Bacchus]

Why are you apologising for giving such a detailed response? Having said that I accept your apology and trust that you will be more succinct in future.

I apologize but I find the detailed response both interesting and informative.

 

[Monocle]

That burst speed for a quick 20m time is probably more noticeable in congestion I reckon, like watching someone step out of a pack with the ball and leave others behind. If he's winning a lot of ball on the outside in space, possibly taking a lot of marks then that pace isn't going to be illustrated as much. He has that pace in his reserve but probably doesn't need to use it as much to gain separation.

It's curious that we are noticeably slow with our current crop and most of the draftees we're being linked with have real pace. Could be a case of journos and experts doing a bit of 1 + 1 = 3

What I would like to see a kid with that sort of pace showing, is the ability to use their closing down speed to run players down in tackles as they try to run away from the play with ball in hand.

As we see way too often with Petruccelli is that he only uses his speed, as an offensive weapon and not enough chasing defenders down as they try to exit our forward 50.

If he can sniff a goal Jack puts the afterburners on in other moments in a game ...... not so much.

 

[TerryFilk]

Despite their public insistence they’d be happy to pick an interstate player, rival recruiters believe the West Coast Eagles are preparing to pounce on WA-based talent with their first two selections, which will likely end up being Picks 9 and 13 after the Ashcroft bid.

Should Ginbey be off the board by Pick 9, the Eagles will strongly consider the three other top WA prospects: Hewett, Jedd Busslinger (East Perth) and Ed Allan (Claremont).

A rangy 196cm key-position player who reads the ball superbly in the air and has great defensive nous and composure, Busslinger is regarded as the best key back in the draft class. Hewett is a powerful midfielder and renowned leader.

But Allan looms as this year’s first-round – possibly top-10 – bolter. Foxfooty.com.auunderstands the Eagles have put significant work into Allan, who was a standout at the recent national combine after an injury-interrupted 2022 campaign.

A versatile 194cm prospect that can play in any third of the ground, Allan turned heads in the 20m sprint, recording a time of 2.81 seconds – the fifth-fastest 20m sprint time in combine history – while he also presented impressively during club interviews.

Allan is the son of former Hawthorn and Fremantle midfielder Ben Allan but not eligible to either the Hawks or Dockers as his dad played 98 games for Hawthorn — two short of the 100-game minimum requirement for the father-son rule — and 47 for Fremantle.

The Eagles are keen on him – to the point where they might even consider taking him with their first pick. Foxfooty.com.auunderstands the Giants, who also hold two late first-round picks, have also put ample work into Allan.

Should the Eagles select a non-WA player with one of their first two picks, Phillipou and Sandringham Dragons’ Cameron Mackenzie would likely be their top two options.

Mackenzie, a reliable and consistent midfielder with a strong inside-outside balance and burst of speed from stoppage, has lived in England, France and Sydney during his childhood.

“The experience of living overseas does make the idea (of playing for a non-Victorian club) seem less daunting,” Mackenzie told foxfooty.com.au.

“My preference is probably to stay in Melbourne, but I just want to play footy and if I had to play (interstate), I’d definitely take the challenge and take the opportunity, have a big impact and help the team succeed.”

I think I’d genuinely vomit if we took Allan at 9 or 13

 

[WCE_phil]

My problem with Allan is two-fold. Lack of composure under pressure and lack of exposed form. Even taking into account his combine results I always put more weight into how a player actually plays.

He's borderline top 30 and Ginbey is between 20 and 25 on my board. I've seen Ginbey since he was 14. He's played midfield and HF for Dusborough as a junior, then backline mainly at WAFL with spurts in the midfield and HF (earlier). He has never been high production and his outstanding combine stats have in my reading told me that is a lack of play reading ability and footballing IQ. The closest comparison of an athletically gifted midfielder who lacked inside nous is yeo. However Yeo was always outstanding at reading the play in the back half and had to basically follow key midfielders for 2 years before becoming a strong mid himself. I'd say there's a 10% chance you get a yeo level mid without the aerial prowess, a 40% chance you get a serviceable AFL player and 50% complete bust.

Allan like Ginbey has a high ceiling but we're not talking 1-2 questions marks we're talking multiple and as a club WCE has been horrendous at developing midfield talent for years. Speculative picks like this are not where I want the club heading.

Also I wouldn't buy into the media hype of picks yet. I am back home and only on call for consulting or for reviewing interviews for input so am not in the circle anymore until draft days when my input on 50/50 calls will be asked. So I have no further information on Clubs.

I posted who I thought was top 10 and would go where. I also had eagles blank as I had no idea and couldnt get any info. The only change I am almost certain of is the Hawks who looked set to pounce on Clark seemed to move more towards Mackenzie.

The only real long term ties with other clubs i have are with GWS, Sydney and Richmond. Richmond have no picks affecting us and Sydney tend to pick who they rate for their playstyle. The only question for me is whether or not they take Keeler thinking they can try and develop another buddy/ryder lite. I think Hustwaite is their other pick.

GWS will pick for needs combined with who they think will stick around.

None of brisbane's picks affect our first 4 picks for bids, Max Michalanny could genuinely go top 25, but again saints picks are after ours and he won't affect their first pick.

I haven't checked to see if Davey has nominated Essendon as i've been very busy with other stuff but I don't think he's bid on by anyone before our picks. If he's bid on that early i wouldn't be surprised if Essendon don't match and just take his injured brother much later in the draft.

The only thing so far i've put any weight into in regards to media drafts is that Hewett looks to slide. I don't think Collingwood or Melbourne touch him, GWS might though.

 

[squashface]

Busslinger at 9 and Allan at 13.

 

[WCE_phil]

Also Tsatas seemed an absolute lock to Essendon, if that changes the whole 6-15 could completely change.

Also with Hawks grabitating more towards Mackenzie than Clark it will leave Geelong with the very tough choice of the expected player they thought being there in Busslinger or the home grown talent in Clark.

Anyone like Ginbey jumping in before our picks or any other risers will make it hard to see even Twomey getting the first round close to right.

If Ginbey goes early Tsatas could slide all the way past us too.

I will still stand by my call that Philippou wont go before our second pick by the way.

 

[FKASC]

Busslinger at 9 and Allan at 13.

Into my veins

 

[Wce17]

The more I think about it the more I wouldn’t be disappointed with a haul of

Busslinger
Hewitt/Allen
Allen/Hewitt
Barnett

Let’s be honest we aren’t going to fix all the problems on the list overnight but I feel like with this haul we are addressing a few different list needs.

We are still grabbing a couple of mids, boosting KKP stocks & always grabbing another ruck for life after Nic Nat.

WCE_phil is Allen at either of those picks a reach? What’s your read on Allen in general? Cancel that I saw you answered this above!

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

it will leave Geelong with the very tough choice of the expected player they thought being there in Busslinger or the home grown talent in Clark.

Easy choice for Geelong, take The Bus, and pick up Clark for a future 4th and a packet of chips in two years time.

Then trade The Bus to us for a couple of first rounders.

 

[Keys]

So the two genuine draft bolters (from mid 2nd round or later prospects before the combine to potential 1st round picks) just happen to be WA boys who happen to have a successful combine. Allan and Jones both players we would likely have considered at 20/26 with 20 previously being considered a reach for either one

Why might that be?

Is it just their combine results bringing them to the attention of the Victorian media and that same media jumping on the go home narrative linking them to us

Is it Vic clubs pushing their name up to divert attention away from their own targets - I note in the article I linked earlier that it mentioned Victorian recruiters pushing the eagles are going local line even though we have publicly said the opposite nor having a history of not selecting non-WA players

We have 4 picks inside 30 - there should be, and likely is, numerous players we’re talking to.

 

[Hook461123]

So the two genuine draft bolters (from mid 2nd round or later prospects before the combine to potential 1st round picks) just happen to be WA boys who happen to have a successful combine. Allan and Jones both players we would likely have considered at 20/26 with 20 previously being considered a reach for either one

Why might that be?

Is it just their combine results bringing them to the attention of the Victorian media and that same media jumping on the go home narrative linking them to us

Is it Vic clubs pushing their name up to divert attention away from their own targets - I note in the article I linked earlier that it mentioned Victorian recruiters pushing the eagles are going local line even though we have publicly said the opposite nor having a history of not selecting non-WA players

We have 4 picks inside 30 - there should be, and likely is, numerous players we’re talking to.

Ginbey has also risen from late first rounder to potentially top 5.

I don't get it. Its not like WA were great this year or they've been dominant in WAFL (Jones looked ok although he's best game came against the Beagles).

It will piss me off if we take Ginbey/Allan with our first 2 picks. I reckon if we kept pick 2 we probably would've still got Allan anyway so defeats the point of splitting the pick.

If somehow Tsatas or Clark slip to 9 then I'll tip my hat to O'Brien and admit the split worked.

My Dream Scenarion
Tstatas 9
Poo 13
Hewett 21
Allan 26
Broadbent (trade in a 3rd rounder if still available)

 

[bh90210fan]

Ive read that we’ve had multiple discussions with all of Clark, Humphrey and George so far. So to think we aren’t happy to cast our net beyond our own backyard is pretty close minded.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Maybe clubs are using the media to try and spook us into reaching, by making us think we scored a bargain.

 

[Nuffington Post]

Ive read that we’ve had multiple discussions with all of Clark, Humphrey and George so far. So to think we aren’t happy to cast our net beyond our own backyard is pretty close minded.

I thought there would be no way Clark falls to us with Geelong having pick 7, but if Tsatas slides this could disrupt a few selections. Wouldn’t mind Clark at pick 8(9).


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[bh90210fan]

I thought there would be no way Clark falls to us with Geelong having pick 7, but if Tsatas slides this could disrupt a few selections. Wouldn’t mind Clark at pick 8(9).


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Ginbey and Humphrey look like they could go early given both Essendon and Gold Coast are rumoured to want big bodied mids so it’s a decent chance

 

[Nuffington Post]

Ginbey and Humphrey look like they could go early given both Essendon and Gold Coast are rumoured to want big bodied mids so it’s a decent chance

I still think there’s a chance GC go for Hollands to pair with his brother. A reach but could help with retention.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com