Rumour Cloke wants 5 years, we say pump the brakes

[Cousin of Daicos]

FWIW my only concern is that his true market value has been inflated. I think he's worth $500-600 but no more. For our main go to man up forward I can only think of two games where he was the difference between us winning and losing. Whereas blokes like Pendles, Ablett and Judd are the difference a few times a season (maybe not so Ablett ATM). He's critical to our structure but IMO he isn't as valuable as Pendles and I hope the contracts reflect that.

This I agree with.

He had a good year in 2007, a really good one in 2010 and a GREAT one in 2011.

He's done nothing in 2012.

I don't think he's technically worth more than 700K at best, but then it depends on what others are willing to offer, or whether he's willing to leave what he has at Collingwood to play somewhere else.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

He deserves to earn between $700 and $800k. Wouldnt pay $900k over 5 years though

Key position players are the hardest to find and replace but not at the expense of losing 2-3 quality young mids

 

[ipswichpies]

If Cloke is looking for a 5 yr deal then I think$700.000 max I would prefer 650 a season max for that length of contract Swan and Pendlebury both signed 4 yr deals if Cloke wants longer he must accept less.

On Cloke will he be the 1st player to break ranks on the rest of the players by signing elsewhere because I am sure Thomas,Swan and Pendlebury could have got more elsewhere but they chose to stay.

Clokey has to make his mind up soon because at this time this is the only thing that can upset our season make him a fair offer a month to assess it and if he does not sign then withdraw the offer and let him be the 1st to break ranks I don,t want this derailing the club or our season.

 

[Thommo 42]

It's all about supply and demand.

There is high demand for quality midfielders, and they are in abundant supply.

There is high demand for gun kwy forwards who can take pack marks, and they are in very limited supply.

Not to mention the fact that Cloke's influence is hugely undersold. Even in his recent form struggles, he has had signficant influence on games merely via his prescence. Every time he is in an aerial contest, he is usually 1 v 3, leaving 2 spare on the ground if he doesn't mark it. He still crashes packs like nobodies business, provides outstanding repeat efforts at ground level and for a big forward provides sustained ground level pressure to lock the ball in.

Our midfielders know that he will continue to run and present for 4 quarters without fail and will always have a down the line target that will rarely be beaten, thus forcing a stoppage, minimising turnover damage, maintaining possession at ground level or still 5-7 times a game - taking the mark.

 

[Markfs]

Most of the story is out...

Freo has offered a $1m ...GWS is out of the bidding, so there wont be any bigger offers.

The Pies have evidently offered $700k or thereabouts...

David Cloke knows that there is no reason to match Freo's offer because Travis WANTs to stay with us. ...so he counter-offers $900k to the Pies. Pies say no, can't afford. David says lets extend the contract so Trav gets higher money for longer - standard manager ploy.

but the reality is $250k a yr isnt enough for Trav to consider leaving. Most players just dont leave for that amount unless they're only getting $300k at year

the way that Trav is playing, I think he knows he aint going to get anymore and he doesnt want to leave. He wants to sign now..

Of course, I could be wrong, and Trav's brain might already be out the door..

 

[Bay Pie]

Like most I would back a 750K X 5 year deal to keep the lad

5 years at 750K seems fair to me given the circumstances.

$750,000 for 3/4 years appears to be our offer. Clokes want $900,000 over 5 years or at least a longer term deal from what we've offered.

We'll get it done from here.

 

[jonbe54]

$750,000 for 3/4 years appears to be our offer. Clokes want $900,000 over 5 years or at least a longer term deal from what we've offered.

We'll get it done from here.

Yep will probably come down to $750K for 4 years or $700/25K for 5

 

[Tbone McGraw]

It's all about supply and demand.

There is high demand for quality midfielders, and they are in abundant supply.

There is high demand for gun kwy forwards who can take pack marks, and they are in very limited supply.

Not to mention the fact that Cloke's influence is hugely undersold. Even in his recent form struggles, he has had signficant influence on games merely via his prescence. Every time he is in an aerial contest, he is usually 1 v 3, leaving 2 spare on the ground if he doesn't mark it. He still crashes packs like nobodies business, provides outstanding repeat efforts at ground level and for a big forward provides sustained ground level pressure to lock the ball in.

Our midfielders know that he will continue to run and present for 4 quarters without fail and will always have a down the line target that will rarely be beaten, thus forcing a stoppage, minimising turnover damage, maintaining possession at ground level or still 5-7 times a game - taking the mark.

Best post in this thread. I really can't add anything else.

The deal will be done, however i can't guarantee when. I have a feeling with bucks recent comments, he is putting the pressure on trav to sign asap.

 

[blaze036]

If the 5 year deal can help us exploit vets list and also free up money now for sidey beams ect im all for it... however its a longgg time

 

[MarkT2]

First off I don't know I'd place much stock in the $900k quoted. That would be made up based on perceived worth and assumed/guessed other offers. That said, if we can accomodate $900k for the next 2 years then I am more than comfortable. Believe it or not $900k will be underpaying him in 5 years. The equivilent of a 25 year old Cloke in 5 years will probably be asking for closer to $1.5m than $1m. There is a new TV deal in between that time let alone the normal anual cap increases.

The issue isn't what he'll get in 4 or 5 years, it is what we can accomodate over the next 2or so.

 

[Old Spice]

First off I don't know I'd place much stock in the $900k quoted. That would be made up based on perceived worth and assumed/guessed other offers. That said, if we can accomodate $900k for the next 2 years then I am more than comfortable. Believe it or not $900k will be underpaying him in 5 years. The equivilent of a 25 year old Cloke in 5 years will probably be asking for closer to $1.5m than $1m. There is a new TV deal in between that time let alone the normal anual cap increases.

The issue isn't what he'll get in 4 or 5 years, it is what we can accomodate over the next 2or so.

That's a good point about the future value of money decreasing. On that basis I'd actually be looking to make the early 2 years lower and boosting the latter years if we have the space. Firstly the vets list should save us some dough and secondly as new tv rights deals are brokered, as you mention, Clokes wage won't seem as high as the pie grows.

What I still am not clear about though re the Vet's List rule changes is if vets eligible players now only get 100k extra relief, or if there are two players eligible that both could have 50% of their wage excised frrom the cap. This is a critical question for us.

On the actual amount, I'm for 725k per year for 5 if we only get 100k per year releif for Trav in the cap. If we can get 50% off his wage thru vets list, then we could go 800-850k per year conceivably.

As a general strategy though, I don't think we should distort the cap for Cloke. Should be on similar coin to Pendles.

 

[ipswichpies]

That's a good point about the future value of money decreasing. On that basis I'd actually be looking to make the early 2 years lower and boosting the latter years if we have the space. Firstly the vets list should save us some dough and secondly as new tv rights deals are brokered, as you mention, Clokes wage won't seem as high as the pie grows.

What I still am not clear about though re the Vet's List rule changes is if vets eligible players now only get 100k extra relief, or if there are two players eligible that both could have 50% of their wage excised frrom the cap. This is a critical question for us.

On the actual amount, I'm for 725k per year for 5 if we only get 100k per year releif for Trav in the cap. If we can get 50% off his wage thru vets list, then we could go 800-850k per year conceivably.

As a general strategy though, I don't think we should distort the cap for Cloke. Should be on similar coin to Pendles.

Last paragraph absolutely spot on should only be in the same pay range as Swan,Pendlebury and Thomas as our best paid players.

I remember back to when we brought in Barry Mitchell from the Swans was it 2 or 3 years after we won the flag in 90 and that did not end well.We as a club do have some out and out stars but they must settle for less if they want to remain here all of those blokes named here could have got better money elsewhere,the onus is on Travis now he must decide what he is doing we have others who we must retain as well.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Its an opening gambit.

More than happy to sign Cloke up for 5 years as long as we dont pay overs. I would have thought 750-800k to be plenty. If he wants more than that then maybe we have to draw the line.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He's been with us for 8.

But the thing is, Key position forwards are, for all intents and purposes done by 28. Trav COULD be an excpetion to the rule given his great injury history, but still a 5 year deal that starts AFTER this season would put him at Collingwood until he retires.

So I can only assume they're going to try and milk the Vet's list as part of his contract if they agree to 5 years.

Back end it so he gets the larger sum at the END of his career, when he won't be performing as well, but at least some of the salary is outside the Cap.

That's how I'd be approaching it if we're going to agree to 5 years. But personally, I wouldn't be putting Cloke on a 5 year deal. As I said earlier, how many Key Position forwards are anywhere near their best past 28?

Its the exact opposite to what youre suggesting. Talls develop late and usuallly play their best footy in their late 20's.

 

[vjknight]

Its the exact opposite to what youre suggesting. Talls develop late and usuallly play their best footy in their late 20's.

yeah used to be the case timmy, but with all the running these days, its not the situation any more.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

yeah used to be the case timmy, but with all the running these days, its not the situation any more.

I'm prepared to risk year 5 just so we can lock him in for four. He'll only be 31 or so. There are plenty of cases of late bloomers and long lasters in the AFL. No doubt he would play nearer goal as he gets older but he will still be effective.

Petrie had a career best season last year
Shultz has only just arrived as a footballer
Podsiadly wasnt even drafted till he was 28
Richardson was a great player late in his career
N Riewoldt whilst in decline is still a super footballer
Hall played at a high level all the way to the end
Adam Goodes at 32 has for the first time in his career started to suffer with injury

Also Cloke has proven to be a durable player, as was his old man. The risk with long contracts is always serious injury, but with Clokes genetics its a risk worth taking.

 

[dingoboy]

Banking that much on one player over 5 years is a big ask.

4 years is a good deal IMO.

 

[pauly_moss]

5 years please sign here..........

Forwards decline at 28????? Are you mental....

Most big blokes take longer to mature and reaching their prime @ 23 - 25. This would mean they are only good for 3 - 5 years.

Lets get the deal done and have him locked away

 

[rose jam]

wouldn't he be smarter taking 4 because the TV rights deal changes after that. If he's in good nick then he could get a 2 year deal worth a heap more.

 

[MarkT2]

He deserves to earn between $700 and $800k. Wouldnt pay $900k over 5 years though

Key position players are the hardest to find and replace but not at the expense of losing 2-3 quality young mids

If Cloke signed for 3 years at $800k, his next 2 year contract would be around $1.2m assuming his form held up. If he is worth 800k now he is worth much more than $900k in 3 years. The pay isn't the issue but the principle of a 5 year deal carries risk becuase it commits salary cap that could end up dead money of he does 2 knees. You have to play the odds though and he has very durable to this point.

I say sign a 5 year deal at $850 x 3 and $900 x 2 and get on with negotiating the rest of the contrats and win the bloody flag. Then we can spend the spare 2013/4 money on a free agent that wants a flag or find a quality player that doesn't fit with a Lyon or a Neeld.

 

[Alexander323bc]

Actually injured players' salary doesn't go toasted the cap or at least a portion of it. Reason why players get to miss games due to general soreness. A legitimate strategy to pay over the salary cap and keep your star players.

 

[Dundalis]

I wouldn't offer more than 4 years. I've said it for the last few years, but even after last years career year, I don't think Cloke is as important to the side as some think. I honestly think we could win a flag without him. The same way Geelong won flags without a dominant key forward.

Would we miss him? Absolutely. But it wouldn't end our chances at a flag. And perhaps having salary cap flexibility will allow us to improve the side in the next couple of years where we otherwise couldn't. I'd like Cloke to sign, but wouldn't be that devastated if he left.

Take the compensation picks, put in a big bid for Goddard and supporters will get over it.

 

[soreplums]

At worst he would still deliver as a FF if he can't keep up as a CHF at 29-30. He won't lose his marking ability. would prefer 4 than 5, or put him on a bigger performance based contract in his 5th year.

 

[doppleganger]

I wouldn't offer more than 4 years. I've said it for the last few years, but even after last years career year, I don't think Cloke is as important to the side as some think. I honestly think we could win a flag without him. The same way Geelong won flags without a dominant key forward.

Agree....our best players in the last 2-3 years have been our mids.

Pendles, Swan, Thomas, Ball, Didak (2010), and looking like Beams and Sidey may join them. These are the blokes who we need to keep, plus prefer to keep the backline unit together.

Cloke is the cream, but as long as we have the best mids dominating we will be strong.

Would we miss him? Absolutely. But it wouldn't end our chances at a flag. And perhaps having salary cap flexibility will allow us to improve the side in the next couple of years where we otherwise couldn't. I'd like Cloke to sign, but wouldn't be that devastated if he left.

He simply shouldn't be on more than Pendles.....if he walks so be it

The forwards are more valuable stick may hold true when you are talking about good-great players....but Pendles is the BEST player in the game, and is entering his prime now. He is our most valuable asset.

Take the compensation picks, put in a big bid for Goddard and supporters will get over it.

Goddard........yuck, no thanx.

 

[HeavyPop]

If he does walk, I wonder if the club would go after Jon Patton. While GWS could afford to pay him more, he is from Melbourne and might want to come home.