Opinion Coach: James Hird

[Beerfish]

I think sacking him and looking for an alternate coach is the same thing.

I don't think anyone has said sack him now. Some people are expressing what they'd like to see happen if he hasn't shown some kind of traction by the end of the season and I don't think there's anything wrong with having that discussion.

 

[Doss]

I think sacking him and looking for an alternate coach is the same thing.

No, it really isn't. We're merely posters on a discussion forum.

In the end, I suspect, short of an absolute catastrophe (I'm talking 12 goal losses every week) for the remainder of the season, he'll coach in 2016 regardless. If things don't show marked improvement in 2016, then it's a genuine open question as to whether the club would keep him on. So I think any sort of hashtag around Caracella/insertanyoneelse2016 is a waste of time regardless, because it won't happen.

In the meantime, discussing our current form and who we'd want to see should Hird not work out ultimately is valid enough. And it's certainly valid to discuss where our shortcomings are and what the consequences might be should those shortcomings not improve.

 

[ManWithNoName]

No, it really isn't. We're merely posters on a discussion forum.

In the end, I suspect, short of an absolute catastrophe (I'm talking 12 goal losses every week) for the remainder of the season, he'll coach in 2016 regardless. If things don't show marked improvement in 2016, then it's a genuine open question as to whether the club would keep him on. So I think any sort of hashtag around Caracella/insertanyoneelse2016 is a waste of time regardless, because it won't happen.

In the meantime, discussing our current form and who we'd want to see should Hird not work out ultimately is valid enough. And it's certainly valid to discuss where our shortcomings are and what the consequences might be should those shortcomings not improve.

I heard that.

 

[Doss]

I heard that.

Nothing against Blake, or you. That probably did seem targeted at you specifically but it was more meant generally. I just can't imagine that the club will make any move before a decent proportion of 2016 has elapsed.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Nothing against Blake, or you. That probably did seem targeted at you specifically but it was more meant generally. I just can't imagine that the club will make any move before a decent proportion of 2016 has elapsed.

I too would be surprised. But barring some significant turn around, which could come, I can't see what keeping him on would achieve.

The "success" of 2013 I can't help but feel was more to do with his ability to harness emotion/adversity and get them to channel that on field than any great coaching ability. Which we know he can do. But take that away and I think he's an average coach at best.

Emotion wins games but it does not win premierships.

 

[Demz]

Nothing against Blake, or you. That probably did seem targeted at you specifically but it was more meant generally. I just can't imagine that the club will make any move before a decent proportion of 2016 has elapsed.

i could,

 

[daffo]

Hird has 2016 to prove his coaching worth.

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

Unless WADA successfully appeal.

 

[Nasty Penguin]

I too would be surprised. But barring some significant turn around, which could come, I can't see what keeping him on would achieve.

The "success" of 2013 I can't help but feel was more to do with his ability to harness emotion/adversity and get them to channel that on field than any great coaching ability. Which we know he can do. But take that away and I think he's an average coach at best.

Emotion wins games but it does not win premierships.

Every coach is "average" until they start winning flags.
I am still of the belief that you need good support around you as well as your own methodology as to how everything is supposed to work. When Hird was first appointed he hand picked his support team and since then many have left for other opportunites/were colateral damage. He's now found himself with a small coaching panel that, I think, don't challenge his decisions enough or provide that critical feedback required to learn and grow. I hope there are some changes to the coaching group over the off season as i looks very stale (too many ex-senior coaches).

I don't know if Hird is going to be a revolutionary coach like a Clarko or Ross Lyon I believe he needs a fresh start at it without something that no other coach has had to endure hanging over his head, self inflicted or not. This year looked like it could have been that year but clearly it's not.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Every coach is "average" until they start winning flags.
I am still of the belief that you need good support around you as well as your own methodology as to how everything is supposed to work. When Hird was first appointed he hand picked his support team and since then many have left for other opportunites/were colateral damage. He's now found himself with a small coaching panel that, I think, don't challenge his decisions enough or provide that critical feedback required to learn and grow. I hope there are some changes to the coaching group over the off season as i looks very stale (too many ex-senior coaches).

I don't know if Hird is going to be a revolutionary coach like a Clarko or Ross Lyon I believe he needs a fresh start at it without something that no other coach has had to endure hanging over his head, self inflicted or not. This year looked like it could have been that year but clearly it's not.

"Average until they start winning flags"

"Revolutionary like Ross Lyon"

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

What's your take on it?

I like the idea of Hurley forward. He'll give us a contest by running at the ball carrier and he's the fittest and leanest he's ever been.

I also don't mind trying Hooksy up there also as Lloydy has alluded too.

I think we'll be a better team with Jake back and someone else forward.

 

[Nasty Penguin]

"Average until they start winning flags"

"Revolutionary like Ross Lyon"

Cherry pick all you like. If you don't understand what I'm saying then no point discussing any further...

 

[Doss]

I like the idea of Hurley forward. He'll give us a contest by running at the ball carrier and he's the fittest and leanest he's ever been.

I also don't mind trying Hooksy up there also as Lloydy has alluded too.

I think we'll be a better team with Jake back and someone else forward.

I think if I had to choose between Hurley and Hooker going forward, it'd be Hooker.

This might sound strange considering Hurley's played forward a fair bit and Hooker hasn't, but I think I find the idea of losing Hurley's drive and strength in defence too unpalatable.

I wouldn't mind seeing us try all three in defence, actually. That means the end for Fletcher and I suspect that's nigh regardless- sadly.

The question is then, where does that leave our forward line? Joey can't do it all on his own and Ambrose isn't giving us much. McKernan is to come in but if you're assuming he's playing without Belly or Giles in the side, then he could pinch hit up forward occasionally.

Do you throw Langford and Laverde in there?

 

[Halftimehero]

We have just seen first hand what switching a player from defence to forward does, pretty sure they won't be making the same mistake with Hooker.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Cherry pick all you like. If you don't understand what I'm saying then no point discussing any further...

No I understood your point. It was just an amusing contradiction.

However to say a coach is average until they start winning flags is nonsense. Only about 10% of all VFL/AFL coaches have won a premiership. It's an INCREDIBLY hard thing to do. To say "unless you do that you're no good" is nonsense.

 

[MightyDons4]

Moving Hooker into the forward line is the stupidest thing we could possibly do.

 

[bombadeer]

Moving Hooker into the forward line is the stupidest thing we could possibly do.

You obviously haven't considered the possibility of playing Colyer as ruck.

 

[MightyDons4]

You obviously haven't considered the possibility of playing Colyer as ruck.

Meh, probably still better than Bellchambers

 

[Doss]

Moving Hooker into the forward line is the stupidest thing we could possibly do.

I'm not saying I want to do it, per se.

Perhaps it's a measure more of how little I want to see Hurley moved away from defence.

If Carlisle is to be back, as I said, I'd much rather see all three of them down there.

 

[Keystone agony]

Its a tough one for Hirdy next year. What would a pass mark be?

I have no doubt that if we are in the exact same spot next year or this was 2016 then hed be leaving early.

He should have 2016 to prove his worth but does that mean he plays the elder guys again to save his arse? Or does he play kids, we lose just as many but at least have some kids showing promising signs, what happens then?

Id like to see how he goes with a year back under his belt, the WADA/ASADA finally not hanging over the players and for him to be able to make some smart changes with the list over the 2015/2016 off season that revamps the list and gives it exactly what it needs. Laverde, Langford, top 5 pick progress really well under him and start having a really big impact for the side next season. Also we have a fit and healthy midfield with Zacka, Hocking, Myers all playing.

There is no real reason why he cant do what Buckley has done with Collingwood from 2014 to this year. Alot of people were talking about Buckly in the same manner last year, he made some big decisions the year before and some smart moves with his list that have seen it progress nicely.

 

[Doss]

I wouldn't be using Buckley as a yard stick for 2015 even in that sense just yet.

The Pies were 8-3 at this point of 2014 as well.

 

[Keystone agony]

I'm not saying I want to do it, per se.

Perhaps it's a measure more of how little I want to see Hurley moved away from defence.

If Carlisle is to be back, as I said, I'd much rather see all three of them down there.

We need to see what an extended stint of Mckernan, Langford can do in there before we make drastic moves IMO. Im not even that confident that Carlisle would be that great as a defender right now.

All i know is that he was a bloody good forward against Richmond and Daniher was against Brisbane. They just need to find consistency. I still think a fair bit of it has to do with how we move the football and deliver it I50 and maybe 1-2 missing personnel changes (Mckernan, Winderlich, Langford)

 

[ManWithNoName]

I'm not saying I want to do it, per se.

Perhaps it's a measure more of how little I want to see Hurley moved away from defence.

If Carlisle is to be back, as I said, I'd much rather see all three of them down there.

We're having this discussion to accomodate a 40 year old whose form has been okay to good at best.

At some point a decision needs to be made.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

If we attempted to move either Hurley or Hooker forward full time I'd probably drive my car through the foyer at Tulla.

 

[Bombermania]

I don't think anyone has said sack him now. Some people are expressing what they'd like to see happen if he hasn't shown some kind of traction by the end of the season and I don't think there's anything wrong with having that discussion.

I agree, I for one have not called for Hirdy to be sacked, but rather this club to sit down and seriously review the game plan.

The other day, I was looking at Edihad from ground level and from the fence the ground does look small, and I couldn't help but start think why do we have such difficulty getting the ball forward.