Collingwood 2016 Pre-Season Discussion

[3rd Monkey]

On the Treloar status:

Balme mentioned OP, but given he claimed to have been managing an ongoing groin issue last season, it was expected to be OP anyway.

OP, or similar ailments, take a long time to fix. You need a period of no running on it to allow the inflammation to go down. I've had OP & tried to play through it for 12 months. It took another 18 months for the inflammation to fully subside for me once I finally let it rest (no doubt everyone's different though). Next thing needed is to build up all the immediate, surrounding muscle, to stop reoccurrence (this will be an ongoing thing). Finally, once both of these are done (depending on the exact nature of the OP, operations can sometimes assist in those steps too), you need to gradually re-start your running.

If Treloar comes back too quick, if he feels the groin get sore again at all, then he'd have to stop again for several weeks/months. It's a slow process, and I'd expect him to be taking this long or I wouldn't be confident the club was fixing it properly.

St Kilda made Ball play through it for years and he got worse and worse (then we fixed it in his first pre-season with us). West Coast made Naitanui play through OP for two years and only last pre-season did he finally get fully over it, and now look how good he was in 2015. Redden has it for the Eagles now too. If you missed it, Redden needed to have a follow-up operation this pre-season already due to coming back too soon and experiencing further soreness (Redden has adductor tendinitis but it is essentially the same as OP).

So basically, it will take Treloar time to build up, but that's a good thing. He likely will be better in 2017 for us than 2016 due to a very limited pre-season. But as we saw with Luke Ball, his kicking penetration & fitness etc got better in his 2nd year with us, and he was fully over his OP, so Treloar should be completely fine in the medium/long run

 

[sirlothie]

On the Treloar status:

Balme mentioned OP, but given he claimed to have been managing an ongoing groin issue last season, it was expected to be OP anyway.

OP, or similar ailments, take a long time to fix. You need a period of no running on it to allow the inflammation to go down. I've had OP & tried to play through it for 12 months. It took another 18 months for the inflammation to fully subside for me once I finally let it rest (no doubt everyone's different though). Next thing needed is to build up all the immediate, surrounding muscle, to stop reoccurrence (this will be an ongoing thing). Finally, once both of these are done (depending on the exact nature of the OP, operations can sometimes assist in those steps too), you need to gradually re-start your running.

If Treloar comes back too quick, if he feels the groin get sore again at all, then he'd have to stop again for several weeks/months. It's a slow process, and I'd expect him to be taking this long or I wouldn't be confident the club was fixing it properly.

St Kilda made Ball play through it for years and he got worse and worse (then we fixed it in his first pre-season with us). West Coast made Naitanui play through OP for two years and only last pre-season did he finally get fully over it, and now look how good he was in 2015. Redden has it for the Eagles now too. If you missed it, Redden needed to have a follow-up operation this pre-season already due to coming back too soon and experiencing further soreness (Redden has adductor tendinitis but it is essentially the same as OP).

So basically, it will take Treloar time to build up, but that's a good thing. He likely will be better in 2017 for us than 2016 due to a very limited pre-season. But as we saw with Luke Ball, his kicking penetration & fitness etc got better in his 2nd year with us, and he was fully over his OP, so Treloar should be completely fine in the medium/long run

It doesn't make it look good though that Treloar decided upon his own OP surgery without consultation from either GWS or Collingwood...

I don't buy that though, I reckon we told him to.

 

[3rd Monkey]

It doesn't make it look good though that Treloar decided upon his own OP surgery without consultation from either GWS or Collingwood...

I don't buy that though, I reckon we told him to.

Yeah, we may have walked him through the diagnosis and potential solutions/rehab, then sort of left it with him to... do what he felt best hey.

 

[TradeDraft]

On the Treloar status:

Balme mentioned OP, but given he claimed to have been managing an ongoing groin issue last season, it was expected to be OP anyway.

OP, or similar ailments, take a long time to fix. You need a period of no running on it to allow the inflammation to go down. I've had OP & tried to play through it for 12 months. It took another 18 months for the inflammation to fully subside for me once I finally let it rest (no doubt everyone's different though). Next thing needed is to build up all the immediate, surrounding muscle, to stop reoccurrence (this will be an ongoing thing). Finally, once both of these are done (depending on the exact nature of the OP, operations can sometimes assist in those steps too), you need to gradually re-start your running.

If Treloar comes back too quick, if he feels the groin get sore again at all, then he'd have to stop again for several weeks/months. It's a slow process, and I'd expect him to be taking this long or I wouldn't be confident the club was fixing it properly.

St Kilda made Ball play through it for years and he got worse and worse (then we fixed it in his first pre-season with us). West Coast made Naitanui play through OP for two years and only last pre-season did he finally get fully over it, and now look how good he was in 2015. Redden has it for the Eagles now too. If you missed it, Redden needed to have a follow-up operation this pre-season already due to coming back too soon and experiencing further soreness (Redden has adductor tendinitis but it is essentially the same as OP).

So basically, it will take Treloar time to build up, but that's a good thing. He likely will be better in 2017 for us than 2016 due to a very limited pre-season. But as we saw with Luke Ball, his kicking penetration & fitness etc got better in his 2nd year with us, and he was fully over his OP, so Treloar should be completely fine in the medium/long run

We had quite a few players that where better in there 2nd season then there 1st such as:

• Medhurst
• Leigh Brown
• Adams

 

[sirlothie]

We had quite a few players that where better in there 2nd season then there 1st such as:

• Medhurst
• Leigh Brown
• Adams

Makes sense because you need time to gel with teammates and be able to read what they can and can't do. Plus get used to the game plan.

 

[Apex36]

It doesn't make it look good though that Treloar decided upon his own OP surgery without consultation from either GWS or Collingwood...

I don't buy that though, I reckon we told him to.

Treloar and Balme are on the record saying that Collingwood recommended surgery after his medical at the club. Treloar simply opted to have it done early himself to give himself extra recovery time rather than wait to officially become a Collingwood player and getting the club to do it.

 

[sirlothie]

Treloar and Balme are on the record saying that Collingwood recommended surgery after his medical at the club. Treloar simply opted to have it done early himself to give himself extra recovery time rather than wait to officially become a Collingwood player and getting the club to do it.

That's incredible because they say the trade fell through and the surgery was botched we would bear liability for that... It's strange that if a player nominates a club it's now a formality that he gets there.

Both clubs were claiming no knowledge prior to the trade.

 

[TradeDraft]

Treloar and Balme are on the record saying that Collingwood recommended surgery after his medical at the club. Treloar simply opted to have it done early himself to give himself extra recovery time rather than wait to officially become a Collingwood player and getting the club to do it.

Glad he did as IF he waited he probably miss Start of the Season

 

[TradeDraft]

Makes sense because you need time to gel with teammates and be able to read what they can and can't do. Plus get used to the game plan.

Spot On and Him Missing lot of the Pre-Season will mean it take longer him to gel with the new teammates

 

[Apex36]

That's incredible because they say the trade fell through and the surgery was botched we would bear liability for that... It's strange that if a player nominates a club it's now a formality that he gets there.

Both clubs were claiming no knowledge prior to the trade.

Collingwood wouldn't have been liable for anything. They simply had their medical staff do an examination, and they made a medical recommendation to Adam based on that exam. What Adam did after that was completely his own choice, responsibility lies with him, not the club. Balme said as much when he was asked about it on SEN after the trade period.

 

[sirlothie]

Collingwood wouldn't have been liable for anything. They simply had their medical staff do an examination, and they made a medical recommendation to Adam based on that exam. What Adam did after that was completely his own choice, responsibility lies with him, not the club. Balme said as much when he was asked about it on SEN after the trade period.

How did one set of doctors diagnose it and another not?

 

[TradeDraft]

Collingwood wouldn't have been liable for anything. They simply had their medical staff do an examination, and they made a medical recommendation to Adam based on that exam. What Adam did after that was completely his own choice, responsibility lies with him, not the club. Balme said as much when he was asked about it on SEN after the trade period.

and His Manager and Both where not Punished but I say rules would be Changed because of what Happened

 

[sworf]

How much impact has OP had on your running/agility ?

I would say although it took over a year to feel like I could run around unimpaired, I felt better long term running/agility wise because of all the work I put in to strengthening/balancing/mechanics of the areas around my hips which were driving the groin issues. Actually glad i went through it in the end.

Having said that if I was in an AFL environment with a lot more at stake I could have easily come back earlier, and not been 100%. So I worry a bit about them rushing players back or taking shortcuts if they aren't addressing the underlying cause of the issues. I couldn't believe last preseason jamie elliot was running around with hamstring issues and they are giving him cortisone shots to reduce the pain/inflammation as though the inflammation was spontaneously occurring.

 

[PieBeast]

Everything might be going as expected with Treloar in regards to the medical side of things but let's not pretend it's all rosy given we've been kept in the dark about his surgeries until trade time and were told the reason for theses surgeries was to have him up and running asap.
You can repeat ad nauseum the Club knows what it's doing mantra but it doesn't change the fact none of us expected him to be so limited at this stage of the preseason, especially given the high price we paid to get him to us.
No, it's not the end of the world and of course it makes sense to get him 100% right but if we're being fair dunkum things actually aren't going as expected.

 

[sirlothie]

Everything might be going as expected with Treloar in regards to the medical side of things but let's not pretend it's all rosy given we've been kept in the dark about his surgeries until trade time and were told the reason for theses surgeries was to have him up and running asap.
You can repeat ad nauseum the Club knows what it's doing mantra but it doesn't change the fact none of us expected him to be so limited at this stage of the preseason, especially given the high price we paid to get him to us.
No, it's not the end of the world and of course it makes sense to get him 100% right but if we're being fair dunkum things actually aren't going as expected.

We're all burnt by Freeman and Scharenberg but at least Treloar is actually out on the track... I'll worry if he misses Round 1.

 

[Kilmo]

There's a mole on the inside of the med team leaking to Scodog. Shit, that's not ideal.

It's okay though because Scodog isn't telling us everything

 

[jackcass]

Hah GC you have no idea what I've been told. I'm not putting this out there off of a whim. Amazing as it might seem I don't post every piece of information I receive.

But because you're not providing us with details of what you're being told and by whom it's very hard not to consider it as speculation. And do you have similar information on the other 17 clubs? Surely there has to be some level of peer review to determine whether we do well or otherwise relative to others?

 

[jackcass]

It doesn't make it look good though that Treloar decided upon his own OP surgery without consultation from either GWS or Collingwood...

I don't buy that though, I reckon we told him to.

Apparently the Pies medicos suggested that it might actually be a hip related issue when they did his medical checks. Can't imagine he'd just walk out of that meeting and book surgery without getting further assessment and advice. Don't see how it matters whether it's done through GWS or CFC doctors or otherwise though, the end result is the critical thing.

 

[jackcass]

Everything might be going as expected with Treloar in regards to the medical side of things but let's not pretend it's all rosy given we've been kept in the dark about his surgeries until trade time and were told the reason for theses surgeries was to have him up and running asap.
You can repeat ad nauseum the Club knows what it's doing mantra but it doesn't change the fact none of us expected him to be so limited at this stage of the preseason, especially given the high price we paid to get him to us.
No, it's not the end of the world and of course it makes sense to get him 100% right but if we're being fair dunkum things actually aren't going as expected.

I, and I assume others, didn't have a clue so had formed no expectations about what he might or might not be doing in January.

 

[left at home]

why does it matter that right now that treloar is not at full training. l would rather it take an extra 2-4 weeks
to get it right than it being an on going issue for the rest of the season were he could miss large chunks of the
season because he came back to early

 

[Apex36]

How did one set of doctors diagnose it and another not?

GWS doctors did diagnose it. Their doctors recommended rest rather than surgery. It's not unheard of for different doctors to recommend different treatments for the same injury. That's why people get second opinions.

 

[PicaBoo]

GWS doctors did diagnose it. Their doctors recommended rest rather than surgery. It's not unheard of for different doctors to recommend different treatments for the same injury. That's why people get second opinions.

Maybe a bit cynical but I reckon the GWS would never recommend surgery knowing that would hurt his trade value. Rather let the Collingwood doctors find that out for themselves and cry foul afterwards( coz Richmond asked them to) .

 

[Apex36]

Maybe a bit cynical but I reckon the GWS would never recommend surgery knowing that would hurt his trade value. Rather let the Collingwood doctors find that out for themselves and cry foul afterwards( coz Richmond asked them to) .

I'd say a combination of that and they would understandably have been unwilling to pay for surgery on a player who already had one foot out the door.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

When it comes to footy I assume everyone on this board has either watched, studied, played, coached or all of the above. We have an education in footy and we watch the game unfold before us so are in a position to at least make comment and have an opinion.

Actually, now that you mention it, I've been meaning to ask.
What exactly is footy?
Collingwood is a delightful, tiny little town in New Zealand, top of South Island.
Nicer than the bigger Richmond which is near by.
But this game you mention, not seen that, assume it's something to do with this ball thing

 

[cleomenes]

With no inside (or outside) knowledge at all, my observation of the Collingwood rehabilitation process over the last few years has been that it has changed from being the same as every other club's to a very conservative one, that keeps players out of the game until their injuries are actually healed. Reid, Beams and Freeman are the obvious examples of players who were held out long past the time when we would have expected them to be back.
Some like Swan and Pendlebury carried injuries and played, which is a bit of counter evidence, but as someone who doesn't actually know what the injuries players had really were, I can only say that I approve of processes that assess long term risk as more important than short term gain.
I suspect that the lesson from playing Jolley and Reid in the 2011 grand final still resonates in the Collingwood injury management decisions too.