Opinion Collingwood Almanac 2016

[Knightmare]

Knightmare what you think Aish is? I disagree I can see him coming a In-Baller in the Mould of Pendles and Steele.

But Reading what you say Aish was a Dumb trade as he is a Total and Utter Bust

Aish is definitely not an on-baller. He can pinch-hit through there but ultimately he is not a contested ball winner or enough of an accumulator. He isn't a big or tall guy and isn't winning you clearances. Steele is a much better ball winner and endurance runner than Aish, so they're in entirely different conversations. Likewise with Pendlebury, Pendlebury is one of the better contested ballers and clearances players in the game with the special 360 awareness and composure in traffic. Aish has some (but not Pendlebury level composure in traffic), but lacks smarts on that level and all the ball winning ability, so there is no comparison there either.

Aish still doesn't have a definite best position. But he has the scope to play half back/wing/half forward as his primary positions. I find forward of centre he struggles to find or win enough of it. On a wing still isn't finding enough of it easily enough. So until then, half back probably is his spot as he is an able ball user.

The result of the Aish trade is inconclusive until he either breaks out and becomes an AFL standard performer or gets delisted/traded (which won't be this offseason). I'm not currently feeling comfortable with his game and where he is at. He is well behind where I expect him to be at this stage.

He still has yet to prove he is AFL standard, so until then, I definitely won't be calling it a good trade, as I do of the Treloar and Howe trades which were clearly excellent trades in Collingwood's situation based on their output this season.

Well Knightmare has not said 1 good thing about Aish and how everything he does is not at AFL Level

Good things are said of those who perform. Aish has been better since the bye.

That's the only credit he deserves with more improvement required.

I've never used the language "bust" about Aish, but it's possible he may become a bust. Whether Aish is a bust or success will be determined in 2017 at the earliest.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

On the topic of the draft. Key position players outside the first round are generally not suitable for selection. This year the key defence depth is poor and for key forwards the only two I'd look at as worthwhile for AFL play are Marshall and Battle who both are first round selections. Without a first round selection, it's pointless wasting a selection on someone who isn't AFL grade.

Get the best young state league key position player then.

GWS drafted Lobb out of the 2nd round. Dogs drafted Adams. They are out their if your scouting is good enough.

Use the pick to trade for a young key position from another club. GWS potentially have 3 available in Marchbank, Tomlinson and Stewart.

All better options than another slow midfielder.

 

[Apex36]

Well Knightmare has not said 1 good thing about Aish and how everything he does is not at AFL Level

Yes he has, and no he didn't.

 

[TradeDraft]

Yes he has, and no he didn't.

Did you read above post pretty much saying he does not rate him even with him playing him better?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Get the best young state league key position player then.

GWS drafted Lobb out of the 2nd round. Dogs drafted Adams. They are out their if your scouting is good enough.

Use the pick to trade for a young key position from another club. GWS potentially have 3 available in Marchbank, Tomlinson and Stewart.

All better options than another slow midfielder.

State league? Ok

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Did you read above post pretty much saying he does not rate him even with him playing him better?

I don't think he was saying that.
I think he was saying at THIS stage Aish is not bona fide best 22.
If he is to get there, it will be Aish that earns his way to best 22.
In other words, it's Aishes performance that will determine the future status of him as a Collingwood player.
If he's going to be the player you (we all) hope for, then fantastic well all enjoy his play.
But like all players, they have to go and earn their place as regular top liners.

 

[Knightmare]

Get the best young state league key position player then.

GWS drafted Lobb out of the 2nd round. Dogs drafted Adams. They are out their if your scouting is good enough.

Use the pick to trade for a young key position from another club. GWS potentially have 3 available in Marchbank, Tomlinson and Stewart.

All better options than another slow midfielder.

Last year there were some excellent state league KPPs. This year, not so much.

Tyler Keitel is the better state league key defender.

Brett Eddy of the key forwards is the only AFL standard performer.

There are good KPPs on opposition lists which is more where I'd be looking.

Tom Hawkins and Eric Mackenzie are the two lesser rated guys who can still perform to a high level. If either become available, I'd love to have them.

Tom Boyd and Jon Patton can both become beasts and would be excellent gets if they go out of favour.

Levi Casboult and the now injured Jack Redpath are the minimum quality key forwards and could be suitable gets if inexpensive.

James Stewart is gettable and I'd consider him, though probably more as someone I'd look to transform into a key defender as something like Ben Reid with excellent ball reading ability and footskills.

 

[Prochard123]

Hey KM,
What do you see as the major deficiencies of our list? Who in particular do you think we will target in the off-season? How do you think we will approach this year's draft?

 

[Knightmare]

Hey KM,
What do you see as the major deficiencies of our list? Who in particular do you think we will target in the off-season? How do you think we will approach this year's draft?

I can't speak for what Collingwood will or plan to do, but below is a rough outline of where I see Collingwood's deficiencies and how I'd look to address them:
1. Veteran leadership - If Hawthorn/Geelong/Sydney/North Melbourne etc let go of a name veteran or two I'd be making a play for them and see if another year or two can be had out of them - in a similar way to GWS with Stevey J and Essendon with James Kelly have gotten another year out of unwanted veterans.
2. Elite, young key forward - Without a first round pick it's probably not happening this year. Esava Ratugolea if available late draft or as a rookie I'd consider but otherwise it's a position that is all about quality over quantity and you take the chance when a high quality option is available. Tom Boyd or Jon Patton if available I'd also willingly make strong plays at.
3. General backman who can kick - Ricky Henderson as a free agent I'd take a shot at - he kicks long but accurately, has vision and is someone who looks to move it on quickly - all making him a perfect fit into Collingwood's back half that misses all of that.
4. Wing (high production and good user) - Josh Daicos and Callum Brown between them could be looked at to fill this need. Both are draftable without being worth early picks. Mitch Maguire as a rookie I'd consider for either this role or as a forward in the rookie draft, having not been invited to the draft combine.
5. Crumbing fwd who can impact scoreboard heavily and pressure i50 - If a Jeff Garlett went out of favour, that would be ideal. Failing that.. Josh Daicos, Ben Jarman, Mitch Maguire, Nick Dodge, Tyson Stengle, Dan Allsop and Sam Fowler are among those who could be considered (with Daicos and Jarman the only of those I'd look at as national draft selections with the others more rookie choices).
6. Dominating grunt mid at stoppages - Willem Drew if there in this draft. Maybe Jack Steele through trade week as an underutilised mid. Michael Barlow if unwanted. Otherwise a future offseason may be when this is addressed better when we have a better idea of where Jordan De Goey is at in his development as a midfielder and how our other pieces are fitting.
7 (situational). If Witts is traded I'd look at Will Minson or a similar veteran ruckman as a rookie for depth and leadership, conditional on the right option being available and willing, in a similar way to how Ben Hudson came in as a rookie a few years back.

 

[mike123]

6. Dominating grunt mid at stoppages - Willem Drew if there in this draft. Maybe Jack Steele through trade week as an underutilised mid. Michael Barlow if unwanted. Otherwise a future offseason may be when this is addressed better when we have a better idea of where Jordan De Goey is at in his development as a midfielder and how our other pieces are fitting.

Thoughts on Rupert Wills providing this?

 

[Knightmare]

Thoughts on Rupert Wills providing this?

Wills has been good in the VFL and on debut didn't look out of place.

I'm not convinced he is the guy though. Can win the footy and tackle to a good (but not elite standard). Skills can let him down though. I have him slightly behind Greenwood in the pecking order.

Happy to be surprised.

 

[TradeDraft]

Aish is definitely not an on-baller. He can pinch-hit through there but ultimately he is not a contested ball winner or enough of an accumulator. He isn't a big or tall guy and isn't winning you clearances. Steele is a much better ball winner and endurance runner than Aish, so they're in entirely different conversations. Likewise with Pendlebury, Pendlebury is one of the better contested ballers and clearances players in the game with the special 360 awareness and composure in traffic. Aish has some (but not Pendlebury level composure in traffic), but lacks smarts on that level and all the ball winning ability, so there is no comparison there either.

How can you be 100% Sure he is Not? He been getting Good Amount of Contested Ball and not been big ball winner before this weekend. He got 26 Touches last night. So can show he ca do it. Well Steele has Freakish Endurance so no real Knock on Aish that he is not up to that Standerd yet. Only Phillips is close to Steele. Plus 5 Years Older. I would say Aish is at least as good user of the Ball then Steele.

Pendlebury is a Freak and I can't think of anyone in the Hole AFL that have the Same Ability. Aish has simmlar ones but not it the class of Pendles

Aish still doesn't have a definite best position. But he has the scope to play half back/wing/half forward as his primary positions. I find forward of centre he struggles to find or win enough of it. On a wing still isn't finding enough of it easily enough. So until then, half back probably is his spot as he is an able ball user.

Any Flanker/Pocket player would Struggle to get lot of the Ball but Aish postion up forward or been Impactful and he is very good shot on Goal. I think the Best Postion could be a Centerman

The result of the Aish trade is inconclusive until he either breaks out and becomes an AFL standard performer or gets delisted/traded (which won't be this offseason). I'm not currently feeling comfortable with his game and where he is at. He is well behind where I expect him to be at this stage.

He still has yet to prove he is AFL standard, so until then, I definitely won't be calling it a good trade, as I do of the Treloar and Howe trades which were clearly excellent trades in Collingwood's situation based on their output this season.

His last 2 games have been AFL Standered. He started very Poor which is a Worry but has come a very long way since the Start of the Season. He is now Cemented in the Best 22 for at least rest of the Season

Good things are said of those who perform. Aish has been better since the bye.

That's the only credit he deserves with more improvement required.

I've never used the language "bust" about Aish, but it's possible he may become a bust. Whether Aish is a bust or success will be determined in 2017 at the earliest.

I think we rate Aish very Differently. I say he has Big Upside and Adds something we badly lack in on the List. High Level Skill and Class.

Where I get you think he is Very Ordinary at Best

 

[Quicky]

Wills has been good in the VFL and on debut didn't look out of place.

I'm not convinced he is the guy though. Can win the footy and tackle to a good (but not elite standard). Skills can let him down though. I have him slightly behind Greenwood in the pecking order.

Happy to be surprised.

He tackled at an elite level last night. The most tackles for a first game player ever.

 

[Knightmare]

How can you be 100% Sure he is Not? He been getting Good Amount of Contested Ball and not been big ball winner before this weekend. He got 26 Touches last night. So can show he ca do it. Well Steele has Freakish Endurance so no real Knock on Aish that he is not up to that Standerd yet. Only Phillips is close to Steele. Plus 5 Years Older. I would say Aish is at least as good user of the Ball then Steele.

Pendlebury is a Freak and I can't think of anyone in the Hole AFL that have the Same Ability. Aish has simmlar ones but not it the class of Pendles

Any Flanker/Pocket player would Struggle to get lot of the Ball but Aish postion up forward or been Impactful and he is very good shot on Goal. I think the Best Postion could be a Centerman

His last 2 games have been AFL Standered. He started very Poor which is a Worry but has come a very long way since the Start of the Season. He is now Cemented in the Best 22 for at least rest of the Season

I think we rate Aish very Differently. I say he has Big Upside and Adds something we badly lack in on the List. High Level Skill and Class.

Where I get you think he is Very Ordinary at Best

Aish is definitely not up to Steele's level as a ball user. Aish is a stylish looking kick but not an effective kick as Steele is, who is highly efficient and a lot more reliable by contrast.

Still too many poor decisions and inconsistent execution by foot in Aish's game.

Better ball winning from Aish with 13 contested possessions (a career high from his 43 games). It's a step in the right direction, but to be an effective on-baller, 13 contested possessions and several clearances needs to be routine.

We have a lot of midfielders and players who play clearly their best footy on the ball, so given that, and with Aish an a so-so ball winner at best until he can routinely win the contested ball, he has no place starting at centre bounces.

With Aish's current form and with Collingwood's long injury list, I'm with you that Aish is best 22 this season. If it's a fully healthy team I wouldn't agree and would have Aish several positions outside the best 22 as per page one.

On the ball I'd have Pendlebury, Swan, Treloar, De Goey, Sidebottom, Adams, Crisp, Greenwood, Wills, Williams and Broomhead ahead of him in terms of preference to play on the ball, with that whole group better contested ball winners and clearance players.

I agree that Aish has class but his skills require further work.

Aish I place on the clubs list as I do on page one. Doesn't mean he has no future. It's where I place him today based on what we've seen this season. He has chances to develop into a long term piece, but isn't there yet and needs more work to get there.

 

[Knightmare]

He tackled at an elite level last night. The most tackles for a first game player ever.

*I'm going off VFL performances this year added to his first AFL game and averaging it out in making that comment.

Good ball winner but isn't a consistent 30+ disposal winner in the VFL to project to become a supremely high volume ball winning midfielder at AFL level.

 

[Quicky]

*I'm going off VFL performances this year added to his first AFL game and averaging it out in making that comment.

Good ball winner but isn't a consistent 30+ disposal winner in the VFL to project to become a supremely high volume ball winning midfielder at AFL level.

Fair enough about his disposal numbers, but he's definitely a good tackler.

 

[Knightmare]

Fair enough about his disposal numbers, but he's definitely a good tackler.

Can't disagree. More accurate on my part would have been just to stick to disposals and contested possessions from that grunt perspective being a tier below, as beyond that tackling what he is there to offer.

 

[Knightmare]

And for Collingwood's next selection in the Bigfooty Trial Phantom Draft: (https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-draft-trial-run.1139645/page-8#post-45830765)

43 Collingwood - Zac Fisher (WA)

Rationale: Best available. Last player remaining from inside my top 30. Forget height. He's a complete player and the last player remaining I look at as a definite AFL grade performer. I'd back him in to play from season one and wouldn't be surprised to see him appear from round one. Has the smarts, skills, movement, ball winner and inside/outside balance to go with WAFL League production (averaging 18.7 disposals per game). Won the WA U18 State MVP and was WA's clear best midfielder and arguably the most impressive mid during the U18 champs. Gun.

How he fits Collingwood's list: Fisher can rotate on-ball, wing, forward. He can fit into that rotation and play games from season one at AFL level. Collingwood only have Elliott, Blair and J.Thomas under 180cm, and Fisher is one of the high quality sub 180cm players for that balance not to matter.

Summary draft profile
Zac Fisher (WA)
Best position: Inside midfield
Height, weight: 175cm, 61kg
Recruited from: Perth
Plays like: Cory Gregson
Projected draft range: second round onwards
Strengths:
- Production
- Stoppage work
- Ability to win first possession at stoppages
- Contested-ball winning ability
- Tackling
- Clean hands
- Precise footskills
- Vision
- Decision-making ability
- Acceleration
- Agility
- Evasiveness
Weaknesses:
- Size by position

--
I'm sure to hear lots of groans from people when they read 175cm, 61kg. That's about all anyone could hold against him. Absolutely too good to overlook at 43. He is worth a top 20 pick for mine (18 on my draft board today).

When that kind of value can be added, that's exactly why I advocate filling needs during free agency, trade week and the rookie draft.

For further context, Callum Brown and Joshua Daicos are both sub 180cm, and Fisher is much better than both. So I've topped what the clubs likely selection here would be anyway.

 

[TradeDraft]

Aish I place on the clubs list as I do on page one. Doesn't mean he has no future. It's where I place him today based on what we've seen this season. He has chances to develop into a long term piece, but isn't there yet and needs more work to get there.

Going by Right Now. Yes he still has stuff he needs to be Worked On(Like All 20-21 Years Old Would). Like Get Stronger/More Consistent/Tidy Up Skills/Bigger Tank.

I say he is in the Best 22. Espically with Finals Gone. He is someone I hope has a Fully Pre-Season Injury Free as I can see him doing that would mean a Big 2017

 

[Quicky]

Henderson is an interesting one. He is 28 and having a career best season, the first time he has averaged over 20 disposals in his career. He is a decent rebounder with his foot skills the big weapon. But would we be hitting him on the downward curve? He is an unrestricted free agent, so getting him cheap is the real appeal in a year we have little in terms of trade currency. We do lack defenders who can kick, even though we have a heap of defenders on the list. Is he much of an upgrade on a guy like Langdon though?

 

[CFC2010]

Hey Knightmare I love your work, out of curiosity how many hours do you spend watching footy during the week?

By the way I still think the Cats will win the Premieship this year who is your pick at this point?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

And for Collingwood's next selection in the Bigfooty Trial Phantom Draft: (https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-draft-trial-run.1139645/page-8#post-45830765)

43 Collingwood - Zac Fisher (WA)

Rationale: Best available. Last player remaining from inside my top 30. Forget height. He's a complete player and the last player remaining I look at as a definite AFL grade performer. I'd back him in to play from season one and wouldn't be surprised to see him appear from round one. Has the smarts, skills, movement, ball winner and inside/outside balance to go with WAFL League production (averaging 18.7 disposals per game). Won the WA U18 State MVP and was WA's clear best midfielder and arguably the most impressive mid during the U18 champs. Gun.

How he fits Collingwood's list: Fisher can rotate on-ball, wing, forward. He can fit into that rotation and play games from season one at AFL level. Collingwood only have Elliott, Blair and J.Thomas under 180cm, and Fisher is one of the high quality sub 180cm players for that balance not to matter.

Summary draft profile
Zac Fisher (WA)
Best position: Inside midfield
Height, weight: 175cm, 61kg
Recruited from: Perth
Plays like: Cory Gregson
Projected draft range: second round onwards
Strengths:
- Production
- Stoppage work
- Ability to win first possession at stoppages
- Contested-ball winning ability
- Tackling
- Clean hands
- Precise footskills
- Vision
- Decision-making ability
- Acceleration
- Agility
- Evasiveness
Weaknesses:
- Size by position

--
I'm sure to hear lots of groans from people when they read 175cm, 61kg. That's about all anyone could hold against him. Absolutely too good to overlook at 43. He is worth a top 20 pick for mine (18 on my draft board today).

When that kind of value can be added, that's exactly why I advocate filling needs during free agency, trade week and the rookie draft.

For further context, Callum Brown and Joshua Daicos are both sub 180cm, and Fisher is much better than both. So I've topped what the clubs likely selection here would be anyway.

We need to find you some work with certain Messer's Hine and Randell

 

[Quicky]

We need to find you some work with certain Messer's Hine and Randell

I find it best to stay out of other peoples affairs.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I find it best to stay out of other peoples affairs.

I don't like your ruse

 

[Quicky]

I don't like your ruse

Classic Clerks. It's my favourite Randal scene!