Opinion Collingwood Almanac 2016

[TradeDraft]

My player rankings are not to represent where the club rate our players but rather represents where I value them with regard to their position inside our best 22 and their value towards our best 22 long term.

My view on Aish is that it depends who is on offer.

If Geelong were to offer Tom Hawkins and expressed interest in Aish, I'd be willing to offer Aish + to get Hawkins.

Aish isn't a clear long term best 22 player. He has chances, but he is someone I'd be upgrading on if someone better was offered for him certainly.

As a first year player for Collingwood Aish isn't someone practical for trading, as could be said of Wills or Smith, so as a result they're not players I'm listing as "on the trade table" as players I would be looking to offer up in trade week. But they're players based on who they are today and project to come I'd be strongly considering moving over coming seasons unless they improve to a level where they are clear best 22 players.

I think it's to Early to Clearly say about the Future of Aish.

His Season so far was bit like Adams. Bad Start, Went back to VFL and came back very strong in 2nd Half of Season

 

[TradeDraft]

I would have Aish Above:

• Phillips
• Greenwood
• Frost
• Scharanberg(Because of 2 ACL's)
• Broomhead

Aish Point of Difference is his Descion Making in Contested Area's

 

[Knightmare]

Aish is a clear long term best 22 player.

Hawkins is the last player we need. Hes an old school stay at home dinosaur who is quickly getting passed by the game. Appreciate your thoughts normally but this time youre way off the mark on Aish's prospects and indeed on Hawkins future.

I can't say I share your confidence in Aish.

He is a 50/50 prospect for me at this stage until he proves it through standard of performance. I'm not convinced as to where his best position is and with his lack of contested ball winning I'm not convinced he will develop into a consistent player.

Hawkins is still a best 10 key forward in the game. Clubs valuing versatility are now forgetting the value of dominant one position players. He will still be a 40+ goal, 110+ mark key forward this season and I'd consider him a perfect compliment to Cloke and Moore, allowing Cloke to play as a genuine centre half forward, and making things much easier with both able to command double teams which makes things so easy for everyone else. If Hawkins can be had for anyone outside those top 16 player value rankings I'd absolutely jump at the chance to acquire him.

 

[TradeDraft]

I can't say I share your confidence in Aish.

He is a 50/50 prospect for me at this stage until he proves it through standard of performance. I'm not convinced as to where his best position is and with his lack of contested ball winning I'm not convinced he will develop into a consistent player.

Nothing Against you Knightmare I feel at times you can be a Very Harsh Marker on some Players

 

[Soups]

Nothing Against you Knightmare I feel at times you can be a Very Harsh Marker on some Players

It's apart of his job. I think it's pretty clear that Aish can go either way. I like him I think he can be a solid player but theres a chance that he can not live up to his hype from a junior. I think the encouraging thing will be that he went back to VFL and had a good block and has looked better for it.

 

[Scodog10]

Nothing Against you Knightmare I feel at times you can be a Very Harsh Marker on some Players

Nothing against you TD, but I know you can be a biased marker.

Labelling Aish a 50-50 long term prospect at Collingwood is a fair call given our midfield riches. It's not a call I agree with, but is fair all the same.

 

[1892]

How do you see the chances of the 10 replacement Essendon players getting picked up next year?

Outside of Dea and Kelly I can't see much there. For mine Dea has done enough to earn a proper list spot, but isn't a positional need and probably doesn't get another footy for a defender of his height. Kelly is a better fit and seems to have turned back the clock a few years with career high average possessions, but the obvious questions are if he wants to play on and do so at a third club and how much of his resurgence is down to playing in a weakened midfield.

Kelly and Johnson are great examples of value to be had with off cast veterans, are there any potential players who are shaping to fit that mold this year?

 

[Knightmare]

I think it's to Early to Clearly say about the Future of Aish.

His Season so far was bit like Adams. Bad Start, Went back to VFL and came back very strong in 2nd Half of Season

You're right that it is too early to make any definite call on Aish.

He has been poor until now, but is only just now starting to show signs. So we'll have to watch what he does in the following rounds to come before figuring out more precisely where he fits on the teams list.

He won't be traded, but he may be someone who could be considered for trade in future seasons if he doesn't improve into a genuine best 22 standard performer.

Nothing Against you Knightmare I feel at times you can be a Very Harsh Marker on some Players

When evaluating players on club lists, being harsh and calling it as you see their best 22 prospects in the immediate and long term is necessary.

That's the basis of list management decisions - to cut players, to trade players, to re-sign players and for how much.

It's all about looking at what is going to make you a better team, and looking to improve with each season.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Aish is an nteresting one.
The proof will be in what he produces.
It's that simple.

 

[Knightmare]

How do you see the chances of the 10 replacement Essendon players getting picked up next year?

Outside of Dea and Kelly I can't see much there. For mine Dea has done enough to earn a proper list spot, but isn't a positional need and probably doesn't get another footy for a defender of his height. Kelly is a better fit and seems to have turned back the clock a few years with career high average possessions, but the obvious questions are if he wants to play on and do so at a third club and how much of his resurgence is down to playing in a weakened midfield.

Kelly and Johnson are great examples of value to be had with off cast veterans, are there any potential players who are shaping to fit that mold this year?

I see lots of value in underrated veterans. Every year there is someone getting let go a season or three too early and they're having strong seasons with different teams, for objectively nothing. So it's an area of recruiting I advocate for all clubs. It brings in proven performers and also critically veteran leadership - an ingredient Collingwood need more of.

Of the Essendon top-up players I'm with you that Kelly and Dea are the only two worth seeing picked up again next year of that group. Kelly has been one of Essendon's best players this year and Dea has proven solid down back.

--
Of those free-bees it's mostly those I listed as free agents I'd be looking at in the most part.

Otherwise I'd be waiting until end of season list changes have been made as it's unclear.

To guess a few at this stage. Shaun Bugoyne if Hawthorn decide he is too old I'd jump at. From North if they look to get younger and don't want Nick Dal Santo, Daniel Wells, Lindsay Thomas or Drew Petrie I'd willingly take them all on as clear best 22 players. Any of those Geelong veterans - Taylor, Enright, Bartel, Lonergan, Mackie if cut I'd jump at. Joel Patfull down back if cut by GWS look to give a year to. Same story with Malceski at Gold Coast if cut. Brent Stanton for Essendon has more left in his body if he mentally still wants to play on. Will Minson I could see being a delisted free agent, and if so would as a rookie be an excellent choice as a depth ruckman if Witts gets traded. Jay Schulz I wouldn't say no to depending on how his back is looking at seasons end.

That's just a small list of top of mind names. But the majority of those guys I'd be looking at as best 22 played. And if available as delisted free agents/for nothing, I'd love to have any of them among others on my team list.

 

[1892]

I see lots of value in underrated veterans. Every year there is someone getting let go a season or three too early and they're having strong seasons with different teams, for objectively nothing. So it's an area of recruiting I advocate for all clubs. It brings in proven performers and also critically veteran leadership - an ingredient Collingwood need more of.

Of the Essendon top-up players I'm with you that Kelly and Dea are the only two worth seeing picked up again next year of that group. Kelly has been one of Essendon's best players this year and Dea has proven solid down back.

--
Of those free-bees it's mostly those I listed as free agents I'd be looking at in the most part.

Otherwise I'd be waiting until end of season list changes have been made as it's unclear.

To guess a few at this stage. Shaun Bugoyne if Hawthorn decide he is too old I'd jump at. From North if they look to get younger and don't want Nick Dal Santo, Daniel Wells, Lindsay Thomas or Drew Petrie I'd willingly take them all on as clear best 22 players. Any of those Geelong veterans - Taylor, Enright, Bartel, Lonergan, Mackie if cut I'd jump at. Joel Patfull down back if cut by GWS look to give a year to. Same story with Malceski at Gold Coast if cut. Brent Stanton for Essendon has more left in his body if he mentally still wants to play on. Will Minson I could see being a delisted free agent, and if so would as a rookie be an excellent choice as a depth ruckman if Witts gets traded. Jay Schulz I wouldn't say no to depending on how his back is looking at seasons end.

That's just a small list of top of mind names. But the majority of those guys I'd be looking at as best 22 played. And if available as delisted free agents/for nothing, I'd love to have any of them among others on my team list.

Cheers for the detailed reply, some of those names would look great in black and white.

 

[TradeDraft]

You're right that it is too early to make any definite call on Aish.

He has been poor until now, but is only just now starting to show signs. So we'll have to watch what he does in the following rounds to come before figuring out more precisely where he fits on the teams list.

He won't be traded, but he may be someone who could be considered for trade in future seasons if he doesn't improve into a genuine best 22 standard performer.



When evaluating players on club lists, being harsh and calling it as you see their best 22 prospects in the immediate and long term is necessary.

That's the basis of list management decisions - to cut players, to trade players, to re-sign players and for how much.

It's all about looking at what is going to make you a better team, and looking to improve with each season.

and People Rate Players Differently as IF it was all the Same then being a Recruiter would be very easy

 

[Knightmare]

and People Rate Players Differently as IF it was all the Same then being a Recruiter would be very easy

Clubs don't always get it right.

Geelong have messed up on countless occasions since those premiership years in letting go productive veterans while they're still productive.

Hawthorn letting Lake go last year and putting the pressure on their veterans this year may make the same mistakes.

Just as in a game of chess. If you think your opponent is making every move correctly, you'll never notice when they do make a mistake. You need to make your own evaluation of the position, don't trust the judgement of the opposition and make your own call to determine whether a mistake has been made or not.

So it's critical in the list management space to make your own evaluations, learn each year, and use those learnings to advantage.

One key learning I've taken that no AFL club shares to the level I take it is the value of veterans. They can still play, they are huge for the development of youth. Yet every year, clubs are throwing away still capable veterans.
Given this understanding, every year, regardless of team, I'd be going out and getting those veterans who are still good as free agents/delisted free agents etc.

It goes the same way with opposition talent ID. Carlton willing to give Jeff Garlett away, and Melbourne get him for nothing. It's not like Garlett had lost his pace, so Carlton in this case evaluated their talent wrongly, and as an opposition list manager, you have to notice this and take advantage when you see these opportunities.

Same goes in the draft with clubs continuing to overlook/let some dominant contested ball winning midfielders fall deeper in the draft than they should. It happens every year. And now you've got clubs looking at endurance athletes which will in all likelihood mean that clubs will continue making the same mistake into the future.

There is a lot as with any of us that AFL clubs don't know to allow them to make the correct decisions as consistently as they could.

 

[TradeDraft]

Clubs don't always get it right.

Geelong have messed up on countless occasions since those premiership years in letting go productive veterans while they're still productive.

Hawthorn letting Lake go last year and putting the pressure on their veterans this year may make the same mistakes.

Just as in a game of chess. If you think your opponent is making every move correctly, you'll never notice when they do make a mistake. You need to make your own evaluation of the position, don't trust the judgement of the opposition and make your own call to determine whether a mistake has been made or not.

So it's critical in the list management space to make your own evaluations, learn each year, and use those learnings to advantage.

One key learning I've taken that no AFL club shares to the level I take it is the value of veterans. They can still play, they are huge for the development of youth. Yet every year, clubs are throwing away still capable veterans.
Given this understanding, every year, regardless of team, I'd be going out and getting those veterans who are still good as free agents/delisted free agents etc.

It goes the same way with opposition talent ID. Carlton willing to give Jeff Garlett away, and Melbourne get him for nothing. It's not like Garlett had lost his pace, so Carlton in this case evaluated their talent wrongly, and as an opposition list manager, you have to notice this and take advantage when you see these opportunities.

Same goes in the draft with clubs continuing to overlook/let some dominant contested ball winning midfielders fall deeper in the draft than they should. It happens every year. And now you've got clubs looking at endurance athletes which will in all likelihood mean that clubs will continue making the same mistake into the future.

There is a lot as with any of us that AFL clubs don't know to allow them to make the correct decisions as consistently as they could.

It's not Exact Science. No One get's it 100% Right.

So you rather Keep Older Players and Going to Free Agency instead of Going to the Draft?

What I get from you Hine and Co are good in the Draft but Very Poor in Getting players from Other Clubs?

There are to many Variables to have any real Clear Idea how a Player will Pan Out.

I know Aish is not a Sure Thing Yet but I would not be as Down on him as you come accross at the Moment with him

 

[Knightmare]

It's not Exact Science. No One get's it 100% Right.

So you rather Keep Older Players and Going to Free Agency instead of Going to the Draft?

What I get from you Hine and Co are good in the Draft but Very Poor in Getting players from Other Clubs?

There are to many Variables to have any real Clear Idea how a Player will Pan Out.

I know Aish is not a Sure Thing Yet but I would not be as Down on him as you come accross at the Moment with him

Players have to be drafted every year.

But in theory if Collingwood were relatively better at keeping veterans healthy and productive for longer I would encourage the club to seek relatively more (established, best 22 standard) veterans.
It makes the young players better - as with the 2007 and 2010 Pies when we had so many good veteran leaders. And is a great compliment for any young players coming through.

The recruiting team are getting better at identifying opposition list talent. They did well with Treloar and Howe certainly. Aish is an unknown until he has had a year + with the club. So that's a positive. They've dropped away somewhat in their ability to identify talent through the draft. But overall the recruiters relatively are doing fine and probably an above average - good job.

 

[TradeDraft]

Players have to be drafted every year.

But in theory if Collingwood were relatively better at keeping veterans healthy and productive for longer I would encourage the club to seek relatively more (established, best 22 standard) veterans.
It makes the young players better - as with the 2007 and 2010 Pies when we had so many good veteran leaders. And is a great compliment for any young players coming through.

The recruiting team are getting better at identifying opposition list talent. They did well with Treloar and Howe certainly. Aish is an unknown until he has had a year + with the club. So that's a positive. They've dropped away somewhat in their ability to identify talent through the draft. But overall the recruiters relatively are doing fine and probably an above average - good job.

I actually think last Trade Period is our best since the 2009 one when he got Darran Jolly and Luke Ball(Mature Draft Pick).

Treloar was Awsome in this 1st Half but seen hit a bit of a Wall since the Bye. Howe been Huge down Back. After a Poor Start Aish has showing some Real Promise since coming back from the VFL. All 3 looks to be all very Important Players for the AFL Team.

I agree with the Medical/Fitness Staff Failing for 5 Years make it hard to keep Old Players on the Field

 

[Knightmare]

I actually think last Trade Period is our best since the 2009 one when he got Darran Jolly and Luke Ball(Mature Draft Pick).

Treloar was Awsome in this 1st Half but seen hit a bit of a Wall since the Bye. Howe been Huge down Back. After a Poor Start Aish has showing some Real Promise since coming back from the VFL. All 3 looks to be all very Important Players for the AFL Team.

I agree with the Medical/Fitness Staff Failing for 5 Years make it hard to keep Old Players on the Field

2009 was definitely our best recent offseason with the additions of Jolly and Ball helping us to a premiership. Both were great value gets and perfect list fits.

Treloar would have to be leading our B+F but is on the back of his strength of performance starting to receive more opposition attention, so his play will as a result not be as consistently great as it was in the first half of the season. But if that means Pendlebury and other midfielders receive an easier time, that doesn't concern me greatly the way we're looking since the bye.

It's a welcome change to see Collingwood after the bye starting to play good footy as opposed to drop away as has happened in the past few seasons after the bye after hot starts early in the season.

 

[Quicky]

I see lots of value in underrated veterans. Every year there is someone getting let go a season or three too early and they're having strong seasons with different teams, for objectively nothing. So it's an area of recruiting I advocate for all clubs. It brings in proven performers and also critically veteran leadership - an ingredient Collingwood need more of.

Of the Essendon top-up players I'm with you that Kelly and Dea are the only two worth seeing picked up again next year of that group. Kelly has been one of Essendon's best players this year and Dea has proven solid down back.

--
Of those free-bees it's mostly those I listed as free agents I'd be looking at in the most part.

Otherwise I'd be waiting until end of season list changes have been made as it's unclear.

To guess a few at this stage. Shaun Bugoyne if Hawthorn decide he is too old I'd jump at. From North if they look to get younger and don't want Nick Dal Santo, Daniel Wells, Lindsay Thomas or Drew Petrie I'd willingly take them all on as clear best 22 players. Any of those Geelong veterans - Taylor, Enright, Bartel, Lonergan, Mackie if cut I'd jump at. Joel Patfull down back if cut by GWS look to give a year to. Same story with Malceski at Gold Coast if cut. Brent Stanton for Essendon has more left in his body if he mentally still wants to play on. Will Minson I could see being a delisted free agent, and if so would as a rookie be an excellent choice as a depth ruckman if Witts gets traded. Jay Schulz I wouldn't say no to depending on how his back is looking at seasons end.

That's just a small list of top of mind names. But the majority of those guys I'd be looking at as best 22 played. And if available as delisted free agents/for nothing, I'd love to have any of them among others on my team list.

Burgoyne would be huge if we could get him. He would add immediate leadership, quality, flexibility, depth and polish. Thomas and Garlett would fill a real list need also. Imagine getting another year out of Swan. That and getting a fit list together and we would climb very quickly.

 

[Quicky]

One team I think might be ripe for some more plucking is Brisbane. We have Witts who they are interested in. We have Oxley who would be attractive and is probably surplus to our needs. There looks to be some opportunity to trade with them again this off season. And considering that, if the opportunity arose who would we target from them?

 

[left at home]

Burgoyne would be huge if we could get him. He would add immediate leadership, quality, flexibility, depth and polish. Thomas and Garlett would fill a real list need also. Imagine getting another year out of Swan. That and getting a fit list together and we would climb very quickly.

don't think the hawks will let Burgoyne go, made if they did the way he is still playing

 

[Quicky]

I would love Zorko who on a needs basis would be a fantastic fit for us. But he would be close to untouchable (hehe) over there. We would really benefit from a ball hunting, goal scoring small forward who does the business and can go through the middle. We would need to pay handsomely though and don't seem to have enough currency for such a big move.

 

[Quicky]

don't think the hawks will let Burgoyne go, made if they did the way he is still playing

I don't think so either, but given it got thrown out there for discussion, you can dream I guess!

 

[Starcevich90]

Knightmare,
I was just wondering your thoughts on Jordan de Goey at present? I know you were very bullish about him last year, but he has certainly had issues in 2016. Do you see this as a natural case of second year blues that he will come through, or have you had to re assess your opinion of him?

 

[Knightmare]

Burgoyne would be huge if we could get him. He would add immediate leadership, quality, flexibility, depth and polish. Thomas and Garlett would fill a real list need also. Imagine getting another year out of Swan. That and getting a fit list together and we would climb very quickly.

With Burgoyne he is a great leader, on and off the field.

Burgoyne I can personally say is one of the better people in football.

Just having the good fortune of meeting him in person and seeing how he mixes with the public, mixes with teammates. He is the quality of person you want at a football club. He treats people like family and shows a warm care towards all people. It's special.

--

The AFL today is such an even competition. There is no standout team. Hawthorn aren't great this year but are winning the close games. Geelong are inconsistent. Sydney and Adelaide are both good but will struggle beating a Victorian team on the MCG on grand final day. Same story with GWS.

If the right pieces are added in any given situation, a team not currently fancied, as with Adelaide coming into the preseason losing Dangerfield can surprise and prove a contender.

One team I think might be ripe for some more plucking is Brisbane. We have Witts who they are interested in. We have Oxley who would be attractive and is probably surplus to our needs. There looks to be some opportunity to trade with them again this off season. And considering that, if the opportunity arose who would we target from them?

Brisbane are a team in looking through their list I'm not all that keen to deal with from a trade perspective.

They have youth but not players.

You're right to mention Witts and Oxley in their context having already expressed interest in Witts and with Oxley not a clear best 22 player despite all the injuries down back.

My thought process with Brisbane is that I'd probably be looking at three team deals and get creative along those lines looking for a team with some underappreciated players.

If needing to deal directly with Brisbane I'd be looking for a combination of picks, perhaps a combination of 2016 and 2017 picks.

If talking players, Rockliff, Beams, Hanley, Rich, Zorko, Schache, H.Andrews, Keays and Hipwood are the only names I'd want to be hearing in any trade talks. I just can't see any of them being available in trade talks to be realistic considerations.

I would love Zorko who on a needs basis would be a fantastic fit for us. But he would be close to untouchable (hehe) over there. We would really benefit from a ball hunting, goal scoring small forward who does the business and can go through the middle. We would need to pay handsomely though and don't seem to have enough currency for such a big move.

Zorko I also like, though with the season he is having as you've identified he is likely untouchable.

Witts + Oxley (two depth players) doesn't = Zorko though. You can always ask though and offer some (2016) picks in addition to Witts and Oxley in order to get Brisbane the academy points they'll want to get their 3-4 draftable academy boys for this year. Zorko will be 28 to open next season after all, and probably isn't there for their next premiership, so that's the almost glimmer of hope.

With Zorko a Queenslander it's hard to see them looking to move him, or for Zorko to be looking to move.

I can't see a team struggling so badly for members and fans giving up such a high level performer, I can't see them being willing to take any hits for losing any more players to rival clubs. They've for some years now been trying to navigate that with all the players walking over the years.

Knightmare,
I was just wondering your thoughts on Jordan de Goey at present? I know you were very bullish about him last year, but he has certainly had issues in 2016. Do you see this as a natural case of second year blues that he will come through, or have you had to re assess your opinion of him?

I thought coming into the season that De Goey would take over as one of the clubs stoppage specialists. He showed such great signs through the preseason!

This season he has spent too much time forward and overall forward and midfield has lacked the impact I'd hoped, with his contested possession numbers and ratio not nearly what I was anticipating based on his 50/50 contested/uncontested ratio from last season.

He has this season in the physical elements of the game - contested ball/tackling/clearances dropped off this season, even if other areas have progressed. Those areas were his trademark and what made him look like such a promising first year player.

I hope De Goey gets back to late season and next year to being himself and continuing to build on his strengths to become a dominant power player at stoppages, with that being what we need through the midfield and what needs to be his calling card.

I have had to reassess and temper my expectations somewhat with De Goey. In saying that I still feel he has the scope to in time become the clubs best midfielder and one of the more dominating inside mids in the game.

 

[Quicky]

With Burgoyne he is a great leader, on and off the field.

Burgoyne I can personally say is one of the better people in football.

Just having the good fortune of meeting him in person and seeing how he mixes with the public, mixes with teammates. He is the quality of person you want at a football club. He treats people like family and shows a warm care towards all people. It's special.

--

The AFL today is such an even competition. There is no standout team. Hawthorn aren't great this year but are winning the close games. Geelong are inconsistent. Sydney and Adelaide are both good but will struggle beating a Victorian team on the MCG on grand final day. Same story with GWS.

If the right pieces are added in any given situation, a team not currently fancied, as with Adelaide coming into the preseason losing Dangerfield can surprise and prove a contender.



Brisbane are a team in looking through their list I'm not all that keen to deal with from a trade perspective.

They have youth but not players.

You're right to mention Witts and Oxley in their context having already expressed interest in Witts and with Oxley not a clear best 22 player despite all the injuries down back.

My thought process with Brisbane is that I'd probably be looking at three team deals and get creative along those lines looking for a team with some underappreciated players.

If needing to deal directly with Brisbane I'd be looking for a combination of picks, perhaps a combination of 2016 and 2017 picks.

If talking players, Rockliff, Beams, Hanley, Rich, Zorko, Schache, H.Andrews, Keays and Hipwood are the only names I'd want to be hearing in any trade talks. I just can't see any of them being available in trade talks to be realistic considerations.



Zorko I also like, though with the season he is having as you've identified he is likely untouchable.

Witts + Oxley (two depth players) doesn't = Zorko though. You can always ask though and offer some (2016) picks in addition to Witts and Oxley in order to get Brisbane the academy points they'll want to get their 3-4 draftable academy boys for this year. Zorko will be 28 to open next season after all, and probably isn't there for their next premiership, so that's the almost glimmer of hope.

With Zorko a Queenslander it's hard to see them looking to move him, or for Zorko to be looking to move.

I can't see a team struggling so badly for members and fans giving up such a high level performer, I can't see them being willing to take any hits for losing any more players to rival clubs. They've for some years now been trying to navigate that with all the players walking over the years.



I thought coming into the season that De Goey would take over as one of the clubs stoppage specialists. He showed such great signs through the preseason!

This season he has spent too much time forward and overall forward and midfield has lacked the impact I'd hoped, with his contested possession numbers and ratio not nearly what I was anticipating based on his 50/50 contested/uncontested ratio from last season.

He has this season in the physical elements of the game - contested ball/tackling/clearances dropped off this season, even if other areas have progressed. Those areas were his trademark and what made him look like such a promising first year player.

I hope De Goey gets back to late season and next year to being himself and continuing to build on his strengths to become a dominant power player at stoppages, with that being what we need through the midfield and what needs to be his calling card.

I have had to reassess and temper my expectations somewhat with De Goey. In saying that I still feel he has the scope to in time become the clubs best midfielder and one of the more dominating inside mids in the game.

I just looked at Brisbane's list in a bit of detail, and I think you're right. Names like Green, Taylor and Mayes seem appealing until you hold them up to scrutiny. They just don't add up. I had a look at Rich who you suggested, and even he has only cracked an average over 20 disposals once in his career. He doesn't get a lot of it which surprised me. Their list is depressingly bad. They won't recover for a long long time. If I were Schache I would be getting the hell out of there.