Collingwood exposed?

[master bate]

Collingwood's top 6 are elite - Pendlebury, Swan, Beams, Cloke, Sidebottom, Reid of which 1 in Reid was missing.
Collingwood has traded away 3 very good footballers from their premiership year who would be in their top 10 now- Shaw, Thomas, Wellingham
Plus the rightful retirements of Jolly and Didak plus trading Dawes.

If their next best 12 players were still that good without 3 really quality players in Shaw, Thomas and Wellingham and missing Reid and without Jolly, Didak, Dawes and several others then I would be shocked.

It's a reality that Buckley has noticed that a lot of what was underneath the real elite wasn't that good and he made the decision to get worse to get better. Now a team that has entered a mini rebuild is going to struggle when their are injuries. That's also not a surprise.

The clearances and the first quarter showed what this Collingwood side can do. Add in Reid and White and you've got a team that has a hard and strong clearance winning midfield who can use that to lock down games against teams who don't have the full ground power of Freo.

 

[CakeEater]

Didn't know Thompson was playing tonight

indeed what was i thinking?

 

[Klaus]

Collingwood's top 6 are elite - Pendlebury, Swan, Beams, Cloke, Sidebottom, Reid of which 1 in Reid was missing.
Collingwood has traded away 3 very good footballers from their premiership year who would be in their top 10 now- Shaw, Thomas, Wellingham
Plus the rightful retirements of Jolly and Didak plus trading Dawes.

If their next best 12 players were still that good without 3 really quality players in Shaw, Thomas and Wellingham and missing Reid and without Jolly, Didak, Dawes and several others then I would be shocked.

It's a reality that Buckley has noticed that a lot of what was underneath the real elite wasn't that good and he made the decision to get worse to get better. Now a team that has entered a mini rebuild is going to struggle when their are injuries. That's also not a surprise.

The clearances and the first quarter showed what this Collingwood side can do. Add in Reid and White and you've got a team that has a hard and strong clearance winning midfield who can use that to lock down games against teams who don't have the full ground power of Freo.

Nah, I never rated Wellingham. He was a 7th string midfielder who would bomb it long to a nothing contest time and time again. I never once saw him pinpoint a pass, he wasn't particularly skilled either. The pies didn't lose much there.

 

[Chism]

The Pies backline is their weakest link and they will be giving up 100pts in a heap of games this season.

It is so hard to win games when you are conceding these types of scores and trust me i know all about it!

The Midfield is A grade easily when the ball is in their hands but gets exposed running the other way while the forward line is so hit and miss.

I cannot see them winning more than 11-12 games this season as the players that departed during the off season have left a big hole.

 

[HBF]

I questioned their recruiting last year of Lynch, Russell and Young whilst almost everyone else was saying what a good job they had done. Wasn't so much that they lost tonight, it was how they lost. Lack of system, little to no run, their best player was playing his first game and Cloke is was their only target inside forward 50. Could be a very long year for the Magpies.

 

[doppleganger]

Do people who are big on Collingwood expect Elliot, Sinclair, Seedsman, Williams (if he returns), Keefe, etc to be as good as Didak, O'Bree, Johnson, Shaw, Presti, ie those that they are replacing?

I don't see it.

Not sure why you picked those names...

The pies are hoping our early draft picks can become the next wave to become premiership players.

Kennedy, Grundy, Broomhead, Scharenberg, Freeman and Adams are the top20 picks the club has bought in over the last two years.

When you opt to replace senior players with kids you increase the volatility of current performance, with the hope of future rewards.

If you keep topping up with senior blokes, you will crash and burn st.kilda style.

 

[master bate]

A lot of Collingwood's problems from tonight they are already working on long term solutions.

Need a backline revolution getting rid of guys like Maxwell, Young, Sinclair and Clarke. Have Seedsman, Marley Williams (who should return to AFL eventually), Broomhead, Scharenberg and Langdon who was great on debut.

Need rucks post Jolly and Leigh Brown. Grundy looks great and Witts got another game of learning tonight and wasn't horrible, have White to come back in.

Need a second forward - Reid will be back soon

Need to replace Luke Ball eventually as a clearance player and find some speed and skill to replace Daisy Thomas. Taylor Adams played today, they have pick 10 in the draft last year in Freeman who's a burst speed midfielders and Ben Kennedy came on as a sub and is highly rated.

 

[Tedeski]

He was impressive at times last year though. He has all of the attributes to be an outstanding forward, he's fast, kicks long, takes a strong grab and can compete on the ground. I always thought that he was hard done by at Sydney and will show his worth at a different club. You can't pass judgement on him yet.

Yes.......exactly as I wrote in my post.

He was great when he was the stand alone forward without those other key forwards in the team but when we tried to use him as a second ruckman resting forward, he struggled as a ruckman & his workrate as a forward was reduced significantly.
Sorry! I've watched him with hope for 6 or so years now.
Don't play him in the ruck Pies & you will get the best out of him.

Hence my fear for him.

 

[Sector 7G]

I don't see it either on Didak, Johnson and Shaw.

I think Reid, White, Fasolo, Josh Thomas, Dwyer, Fasolo, Blair and Williams to all be better options than some of the guys we had out there running around tonight who simply looked out of their depth and far from AFL league standard footballers.

We definitely have a long, long way to go and many problems to sought out, that's for sure.

Reid is the only quality player on that list. The rest are C graders at best (Williams probably would have been a B grader this year but not sure if we see him in 2014). Too many undersized players on the list. Got smashed by Freos bigger bodies.

 

[Blue1980]

They'll defeat Sydney, Richmond and Geelong, pencil those in. North and Essendon will pose a threat, they match up well with them and both aren't intimidated by them. They'll smash Carlton and Adelaide (have they lost to Adealide over there over the past decade?) and West Coast could challenge them. I see them winning at least 5 of those games.

I'm not really sure on what basis a smashing of us or Adelaide is on the cards.

This is a different Collingwood side now, I had them in my 8, they can still do that but their sure as hell not certainties to beat anyone aside from the very worst.

 

[master bate]

Nah, I never rated Wellingham. He was a 7th string midfielder who would bomb it long to a nothing contest time and time again. I never once saw him pinpoint a pass, he wasn't particularly skilled either. The pies didn't lose much there.

I'd wait and see how he goes at West Coast. His preseason form was very good. I think he was a vital part of the Pies success. He tagged, he covered the ground very well. Personally I thought he was on par with Ball as their most important mids after Swan, Pendlebury, Thomas as the height of the pies success.

 

[Blue1980]

Also Grundy should be a gun but expecting him to carry the ruck when he's played 7 games is a huge ask

 

[Chasing 17]

Oh yeah, rightio mate. Meanwhile... in the real world...

2010 1st, Malthouse
2011 1st, Malthouse
2012 4th, Buckley using Malthouse's game plan
2013 6th, Buckley using his own game plan
2014 ---

Sincerely yours,

- the real world

 

[Catsace]

4 years an eternity in football it seems

Pies of 2010 were the most stifling, claustrophobic of sides - now they are offer minimal defensive pressure

Except when they play us now....

New year and 1st game i know, but what the Pies did in both games against Geelong last season suggests they still have the equipment to be a contender.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

What do you mean? Collingwood are currently top 2?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fpm84]

Clarke, Witts and Sinclair are not AFL standard footballers particularly in a team with finals aspirations.

 

[Klaus]

I'm not really sure on what basis a smashing of us or Adelaide is on the cards.

This is a different Collingwood side now, I had them in my 8, they can still do that but their sure as hell not certainties to beat anyone aside from the very worst.

They have been killing Adelaide for years, both in Melbourne and at AAMI. No offence, but Carlton aren't a very good football team and I can't see you finishing any higher than 10th on the ladder. Collingwood defeated you both times during 2013, the most recent was a friday night demolition.

 

[master bate]

I questioned their recruiting last year of Lynch, Russell and Young whilst almost everyone else was saying what a good job they had done. Wasn't so much that they lost tonight, it was how they lost. Lack of system, little to no run, their best player was playing his first game and Cloke is was their only target inside forward 50. Could be a very long year for the Magpies.

I think Russell and Young were more 'in case we make the top 4 and get lucky better have something lying around'. Trading Dawes and Wellingham meant Bucks was already keen to freshen the group and had the top draft picks. May as well spend the salary cap and most teams can afford to experiment with the last few list spots. Russell is gone, not sure we'll see much at all of Q and if Young stays fit then a hard running outside mid to play a few games isn't going to detract from the development of the majority of their players.

 

[Obeanie1]

Seriously, I can't believe they extended Buckley's contract without him showing much yet.

Come on Buckley is Eddie's love child. If they had waited until mid season Buckley would be getting sacked not getting his contract extended. Eddie knows the team is going backwards before it goes forward so he needed to get Bucks a longer contract to see it through.

I can just imagine Mick Malthouse and Daisy tonight sitting back on his couch with popcorn giggling their heads off.

 

[Crankyhawk]

This is why I feared for White going to Collingwood. If they expect him to be the great "White" hope, then big Jesse is in for a torrid time as a Magpie.
He couldn't get a game in our best 22 until we had no Goodes, Tippet, Reid etc, etc .............and he isn't a ruckman.
He is a stand alone forward who will struggle against the good teams' structures when he has to keep out of Cloke & Reid's way.

Time will tell though!

You'd think that if white had trouble with cloke and reid sharing forward line, reid could go back to backline.

 

[HBF]

I think Russell and Young were more 'in case we make the top 4 and get lucky better have something lying around'. Trading Dawes and Wellingham meant Bucks was already keen to freshen the group and had the top draft picks. May as well spend the salary cap and most teams can afford to experiment with the last few list spots. Russell is gone, not sure we'll see much at all of Q and if Young stays fit then a hard running outside mid to play a few games isn't going to detract from the development of the majority of their players.

Every Carlton supporter would have told them that Russell was shot. Very much a confidence player and he just never re-captured that form that saw him finish runner up in the B&F. Young was actually ok tonight, and i'm not sure where Lynch is at.

What really shocked me was Jon Ralph had them finishing 4th. I don't even see them making finals.

 

[doppleganger]

I think Russell and Young were more 'in case we make the top 4 and get lucky better have something lying around'. Trading Dawes and Wellingham meant Bucks was already keen to freshen the group and had the top draft picks. May as well spend the salary cap and most teams can afford to experiment with the last few list spots. Russell is gone, not sure we'll see much at all of Q and if Young stays fit then a hard running outside mid to play a few games isn't going to detract from the development of the majority of their players.

Q was the stop gap senior replacement for Dawes, Q performed as well as Dawes in 2013....but the Pies picked up Grundy by trading Dawes.
Young was the stop gap senior replacement for Wellingham, both had injury write offs in 2013.....but the Pies picked up Kennedy by trading Wellingham.

Building for future whilst trying to stay relevant in the present.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Not sure why you picked those names...

The pies are hoping our early draft picks can become the next wave to become premiership players.

Kennedy, Grundy, Broomhead, Scharenberg, Freeman and Adams are the top20 picks the club has bought in over the last two years.

When you opt to replace senior players with kids you increase the volatility of current performance, with the hope of future rewards.

If you keep topping up with senior blokes, you will crash and burn st.kilda style.

Fair enough. Not promoting St Kilda's list management pre Pelchan's reign, just questioning the depth at the Pies.

 

[Mateyman]

2010 1st, Malthouse
2011 1st, Malthouse
2012 4th, Buckley using Malthouse's game plan
2013 6th, Buckley using his own game plan
2014 ---

Sincerely yours,

- the real world

Yeah, any success Buckley has is Malthouse's doing, and any failures are his own . Of course.

 

[HFF]

Reid is the only quality player on that list. The rest are C graders at best (Williams probably would have been a B grader this year but not sure if we see him in 2014). Too many undersized players on the list. Got smashed by Freos bigger bodies.

That's fine, however these names as a bottom 7 in a best 22 side are better than names like Frost, Clarke, Maxwell etc.

This is what makes a difference, bottom tier not top tier. Top end talent is fine in Pendles, Swan, Cloke, Beams etc.