Collingwood List Management Thread

[blaze036]

:O jmac and buckley are gonna play in 2012 though and add to our team, whilst ceglar/ugle are just average vfl players really, actually below the VFL average if u look across all teams imo. Plus ceglar is our 5th preferred ruckmen. 6th* prefferd if u add in keefe

 

[KissmeRobbo]

Ugle and Ceglar aren't going anywhere

 

[blaze036]

probably not this year, but we might need to make room for witts vince and our new draft batch

 

[the mighty T]

:O jmac and buckley are gonna play in 2012 though and add to our team, whilst ceglar/ugle are just average vfl players really, actually below the VFL average if u look across all teams imo. Plus ceglar is our 5th preferred ruckmen. 6th* prefferd if u add in keefe

im not sure where this inflated sense of expectation comes from, that these guys should be absolutely tearing the VFL competition apart (in their first seasons) just to maintain a spot on the list..

And theres no guarantees bucks or jmac will play next season. Seedsman, Sinclair, Thomas have shown me enough this season to suggest that theyll play senior football to the level if not better than Jmac.

 

[Wooljay]

Nope I would de-list JMac and Buckley WAY WAY WAY Before Ceglar and Ugle

Would delist JMac before either of those, but Bucks has shown a lot in his opportunities. JMac has had enough, and hasn't done enough.

 

[smiddaz123]

You've gotta laugh at all this rubbish about Daw being traded. He won't be traded, nor will be be requesting a trade anytime soon.

 

[Knightmare]

You've gotta laugh at all this rubbish about Daw being traded. He won't be traded, nor will be be requesting a trade anytime soon.

Same could be said about Mumford before he went up to Sydney.

Rookie trade deals I don't have a total understanding of, since they are rare. But my understanding is that since he is only a rookie he isn't contracted beyond this year for this reason North Melbourne have the possibility to trade him regardless of what Daw wants, which might be a possibility if we show them the right piece.
The other thing we might be able to do is talk to him and he can ask for a trade. Perhaps we can convince him that he can become a part of a potential premiership side and we show him where he can fit into our plans. Imagine going to a premiership side for opportunity? Many players would jump at that.


Daw has currency. But it could be a possible deal if either Daw or North Melbourne decided that the trade is the best option. If Daw decides to jump ship, we could do very well.


So while he does seem happy at NM, maybe there is the possibility.

For mine it's always worth exploring all good options if it gives you a chance to improve your team, even if the chances are minimal.

 

[stui magpie]

I hope we pick up Shae. 204cm utility player. I'd love to see a team trying to match him up on a HFF or wing.

 

[you idiot sheehan]

How can people say they'll delist Buckley given the amount of games they've put into him? Nick Maxwell said this year they rate him and they're determined to make him a top 22 player. He's shown some good signs this year. He'll probably play this week.

I know people have mixed views on Buckley but to say he'll get delisted is ridiculous

 

[smiddaz123]

Same could be said about Mumford before he went up to Sydney.

Mumford was a guy who had played numerous AFL games and had shown that he was able to currently play in the AFL consistently. He left because he wanted more opportunities.

Daw is not in that situation. He hasn't debuted, he wouldn't be guaranteed anything more than he's currently getting at any other club. He won't be requesting a trade. North sure as hell won't be getting rid of him.

 

[doppleganger]

:O jmac and buckley are gonna play in 2012 though and add to our team, whilst ceglar/ugle are just average vfl players really, actually below the VFL average if u look across all teams imo. Plus ceglar is our 5th preferred ruckmen. 6th* prefferd if u add in keefe

What are you on about??

Ceglar is a raw ruck prospect....you dont delist them after 1 year, he could come on pretty strong...he has a bit of Vickery about him IMO.

Ugle also is in his first year on the list.

You delist guys who have been around for 4-6 years and still cant crack a game or want out for more opportunity.

 

[KissmeRobbo]

37. Kirk Ugle (15d, 1t): Showed courage all day particularly with going back with the flight in the fourth quarter. A young lad with a bright future.
http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/120513/default.aspx

He isn't going anywhere

 

[TradeDraft]

37. Kirk Ugle (15d, 1t): Showed courage all day particularly with going back with the flight in the fourth quarter. A young lad with a bright future.
http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/120513/default.aspx

He isn't going anywhere

Spot on There and that was also from Craig McRae the Development Coach

 

[Old Spice]

I'd love the see our upcoming list of vets players - given the new rule of only having to have served 10 years and NOT having to have turned 30.

 

[mdc]

I'd love the see our upcoming list of vets players - given the new rule of only having to have served 10 years and NOT having to have turned 30.

Everyone's getting too excited about this. The optimal number of players on the Veterans List is still going to 2. Any more than 2, and the salary cap advantage decreases.

 

[Old Spice]

Everyone's getting too excited about this. The optimal number of players on the Veterans List is still going to 2. Any more than 2, and the salary cap advantage decreases.

I'm not so much concerned with piling a whole bunch on top of each other, but would be good to see what great and expensive players we might be able to offer heavily back-ended 3 year deals to.

 

[KissmeRobbo]

I'd love the see our upcoming list of vets players - given the new rule of only having to have served 10 years and NOT having to have turned 30.

I didn't know that, brings Didak, Swan, O'Brien, Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams and Sidebottom a year closer, and Cloke and Reid 2 years closer, some important players bumped.

Player eligibility for Veterans list under new rules

2012: Davis Johnson Tarrant Didak
2013: Swan
2014: Maxwell
2015: Cloke Shaw O'Brien
2016: Pendlebury Thomas
2017: Reid Toovey Goldsack
2018: Dawes Wellingham McCarthy Dick
2019: N Brown Beams Macaffer
2020: Sidebottom Blair

 

[Old Spice]

I didn't know that, brings Didak, Swan, O'Brien, Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams and Sidebottom a year closer, and Cloke and Reid 2 years closer, some important players bumped.

Player eligibility for Veterans list under new rules

2012: Davis Johnson Tarrant Didak
2013: Swan
2014: Maxwell
2015: Cloke Shaw O'Brien
2016: Pendlebury Thomas
2017: Reid Toovey Goldsack
2018: Dawes Wellingham McCarthy Dick
2019: N Brown Beams Macaffer
2020: Sidebottom Blair

Nice work.

You'd think on that basis Didak and Johnson for 2012. Would have said Tarrant but evidently a labour of love for him. Savings 300k+

In 2013, I'd hazard a guess at Didak and Swan with a savings of 600k+

Further than that is hard to speculate, but you'd reckon in next two years we should free up almost a mil on salary cap alone, plus a little more with reitrements. So I reckon we'd have a mil to play with - probably largely for redistribution.

If we were to squeeze a player or two plus a first round pick into a gun we'd be freeing up a fair bit more and managing our TPP well.

 

[Scodog10]

I didn't know that, brings Didak, Swan, O'Brien, Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams and Sidebottom a year closer, and Cloke and Reid 2 years closer, some important players bumped.

Player eligibility for Veterans list under new rules

2012: Davis Johnson Tarrant Didak
2013: Swan
2014: Maxwell
2015: Cloke Shaw O'Brien
2016: Pendlebury Thomas
2017: Reid Toovey Goldsack
2018: Dawes Wellingham McCarthy Dick
2019: N Brown Beams Macaffer
2020: Sidebottom Blair

According to the rule the player only has to have spent 10 years at said club on the primary list before being eligible, so a players debut year has no bearing on it.

So basically under the new rules you just add 11 years onto a players draft year if they were taken in the national draft and 10 years onto when a rookie list player is added to the senior list due to a long term injury.

I believe the rule change takes place at the end of 2012 to coincide with free agency so the list should look something like this.

2012: Davis, Johnson, Tarrant and Didak
2013: Swan
2014: Maxwell and Shaw
2015: Cloke and O'Brien
2016: Pendles and Thomas
2017: Reid, Toovey, Goldsack, Dick, N Brown and Dawes
2018: Wellingham and McCarthy
2019: Maccaffer, Beams, Rounds and Sidebottom
2020: Blair

Even that's a fair chance of being wrong as the eligibility for free agency, according to most sources, is 8 and 10 years from your draft year. So many players on the list I posted could move forward a year....

 

[Old Spice]

According to the rule the player only has to have spent 10 years at said club on the primary list before being eligible, so a players debut year has no bearing on it.

So basically under the new rules you just add 11 years onto a players draft year if they were taken in the national draft and 10 years onto when a rookie list player is added to the senior list due to a long term injury.

I believe the rule change takes place at the end of 2012 to coincide with free agency so the list should look something like this.

2012: Davis, Johnson, Tarrant and Didak
2013: Swan
2014: Maxwell and Shaw
2015: Cloke and O'Brien
2016: Pendles and Thomas
2017: Reid, Toovey, Goldsack, Dick, N Brown and Dawes
2018: Wellingham and McCarthy
2019: Maccaffer, Beams, Rounds and Sidebottom
2020: Blair

Even that's a fair chance of being wrong as the eligibility for free agency, according to most sources, is 8 and 10 years from your draft year. So many players on the list I posted could move forward a year....

I would have thought you only added 9 to the draft year. For eg., Taz played 9 years for us b/w 98 and 06 (remember to incl the draft year).

 

[KissmeRobbo]

According to the rule the player only has to have spent 10 years at said club on the primary list before being eligible, so a players debut year has no bearing on it.

2012: Davis, Johnson, Tarrant and Didak
2013: Swan
2014: Maxwell and Shaw
2015: Cloke and O'Brien
2016: Pendles and Thomas
2017: Reid, Toovey, Goldsack, Dick, N Brown and Dawes
2018: Wellingham and McCarthy
2019: Maccaffer, Beams, Rounds and Sidebottom
2020: Blair

Ahhh you are spot on.. and it goes in our favour even further, nice work

 

[Scodog10]

I would have thought you only added 9 to the draft year. For eg., Taz played 9 years for us b/w 98 and 06 (remember to incl the draft year).

Well Taz was drafted with pick 8 I believe in 97, however he isn't eligible until next year which will be his 11th on the senior list.

98=1
99=2
00=3
01=4
02=5
03=6
04=7
05=8
06=9
11=10
12=11

So it takes 11 seasons to be eligible for the vet's list. The 2011 and 2012 seasons are the equivalent of 07 and 08 so if he'd stayed he'd have been eligible 11 years after the year he was drafted, if that makes sense.

 

[Old Spice]

Well Taz was drafted with pick 8 I believe in 97, however he isn't eligible until next year which will be his 11th on the senior list.

98=1
99=2
00=3
01=4
02=5
03=6
04=7
05=8
06=9
11=10
12=11

So it takes 11 seasons to be eligible for the vet's list. The 2011 and 2012 seasons are the equivalent of 07 and 08 so if he'd stayed he'd have been eligible 11 years after the year he was drafted, if that makes sense.

Yeah, from the first year a player played (the first year after they were drafted) you add 10 years and that 10th year is the first eligible to be included in vets. So, imagining Taz hadn't left, it would be:

Drafted - 97
1st - 98
2nd - 99
3rd - 00
4th - 01
5th - 02
6th - 03
7th - 04
8th - 05
9th - 06
10th - 07
Vets eligible - 08

So yes, it's 11 years from the year they were drafted, or ten from the 1st year eligible to play (the last year being the year they are eligible to be vets listed.)

Phew.

 

[zhoung]

Would GWS be into a straight swap Witts for Omeara?

 

[KissmeRobbo]

Would GWS be into a straight swap Witts for Omeara?

No matter how good that kid is Jolly proved how a genuine monster ruckman that can go forward and kick a goal can be the difference between a flag and losing prelims

I feel really sorry for Fraser, he should have been our Leigh Brown from day one instead of carrying the club for 10 years then missing the pay off at the end