Collingwood List Management Thread

[Knightmare]

I would not Trade Witts as he is the Best Ruck Prospect this Club has since Monkhurst and we can see with Jolly how a Dominant Big Bodied Ruckman can help the Team get to a Flag

If we want to get into the GWS action he probably would be the best way to do it.

But that said I'm in agreeance.

INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to find a potenial high level ruckman. It's our major list deficiency (high level future potential no.1 ruckman), so having Witts coming along is as good of an answer as we could ever hope for.

Midfielders we have a surplus.

Giving up our potential future ruckman as well as a pick and a valueable player just isn't in our best interests. And probably no combination of either would be now either.

Usually I would be in favour of trading pick + future prospect + player for star. But considering our circumstances I don't think the trade is any longer in our best interests.

Better off letter a Port.A/Bris/GC/Melb get into the action to add a future potential franchise midfielder.

 

[gifted1]

This year. Top 10 strong. Top 20 strong. Not super deep.

2012 will be the superdraft. There will be some super talents. Potential is there for allot of sides to do VERY well in both the 1st + 2nd rounds next year.

i dont even think the top 10 is strong, not when you compare it to other drafts.

decent top 3 in coniglio, patton, wingard......longer.....then a blanket over a bunch of guys in my opinion.

 

[TradeDraft]

If we want to get into the GWS action he probably would be the best way to do it.

But that said I'm in agreeance.

INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to find a potenial high level ruckman. It's our major list deficiency (high level future potential no.1 ruckman), so having Witts coming along is as good of an answer as we could ever hope for.

Midfielders we have a surplus.

Giving up our potential future ruckman as well as a pick and a valueable player just isn't in our best interests. And probably no combination of either would be now either.

Usually I would be in favour of trading pick + future prospect + player for star. But considering our circumstances I don't think the trade is any longer in our best interests.

Better off letter a Port.A/Bris/GC/Melb get into the action to add a future potential franchise midfielder.

Spot On it would be just Silly to Trade Witts. Would Rather Trade Keffe.

We could still get a Late Pick in the U-17 Draft and Still get a Good Kid

 

[Knightmare]

i dont even think the top 10 is strong, not when you compare it to other drafts.

decent top 3 in coniglio, patton, wingard......longer.....then a blanket over a bunch of guys in my opinion.

Agree - top 3 is the standout bunch.

The top 20, I do have reasonable faith in. I agree there have been better but I still do consider it to be a pretty solid top end.
Think some really good players will come inside that group. But after that top 20 certainly for mine it does starts to taper off some.

 

[twaters]

Witts stays. ARocca doesn't waste his time being belted about by someone in training who we are going to pawn off.

O'Meara might be good; but where's his head at? Sheeds needs glam; premiership players (even if fringe); media coverage; and at least 4/5 wins next year just to be noticed in Sydney - so McIntosh trade, Warwick Capper as leading ticket holder, and the rugby cheer girls thing that both/or Swans / Carlton tried once upon a time.

Not a 19 year old ruck.

 

[Knightmare]

Spot On it would be just Silly to Trade Witts. Would Rather Trade Keffe.

We could still get a Late Pick in the U-17 Draft and Still get a Good Kid

GWS will only give up 2/3 selections this season.

Pick 2/3 in that mini draft won't be cheap. They likely would still want Witts.

Of those that might get looked at with pick 2/3.
Jake Stringer is the one I like - but with his broken leg is a risk.
Grundy is another high level ruck prospect.
Crouch is a very ready made mid - most practical for a Adelaide/Richmond/Brisbane/Port Adelaide.
Garlett+Yarran+B.Kennedy would also get considered.

 

[TradeDraft]

GWS will only give up 2/3 selections this season.

Pick 2/3 in that mini draft won't be cheap. They likely would still want Witts.

Of those that might get looked at with pick 2/3.
Jake Stringer is the one I like - but with his broken leg is a risk.
Grundy is another high level ruck prospect.
Crouch is a very ready made mid - most practical for a Adelaide/Richmond/Brisbane/Port Adelaide.
Garlett+Yarran+B.Kennedy would also get considered.

IF we did Trade Witts to GWS it would have to be for O'Meara or Grundy

 

[soreplums]

Anyone else hear Max Bailey speak highly of Monkey as the Hawks ruck coach this morning on SEN? Apparently a really good teacher and is just about full time at Hawthorn.

Think Eddie needs to bring the big fella back home. The time is right with all of Wood, Ceglar and Witts.

 

[Knightmare]

Witts stays. ARocca doesn't waste his time being belted about by someone in training who we are going to pawn off.

O'Meara might be good; but where's his head at? Sheeds needs glam; premiership players (even if fringe); media coverage; and at least 4/5 wins next year just to be noticed in Sydney - so McIntosh trade, Warwick Capper as leading ticket holder, and the rugby cheer girls thing that both/or Swans / Carlton tried once upon a time.

Not a 19 year old ruck.

GWS would love Witts.

They are all about the future and are after those premierships in 5+ years time.

No guarantee they can get Billy Longer (best ruckman in this years draft) through the draft if Port Adelaide pounce at pick 4.

GWS are heavily after those from NSW kids.

Witts would be a big prize. Young potentially also - though to a lesser extent.

Even Phil Davis their first signing as I understand it comes from NSW initially.

Absolutely they want talent from their own state just as Gold Coast did.
It's a big attraction having your own talent.


Obviously they need their mature bodies to play in those early years. But they aren't going to overlook future talent if they can get high upside kids with potentially rare talent like Witts. They'll add enough state leaguers to make do as Gold Coast did.


To build they are better off targeting leaders to help the young talent. Not players like McIntosh with attitude problems.

I'm a strong believer that the reason why Collingwood + Geelong have been such powerful teams are not because of talent, but superior coaching + leadership.
At Collingwood check out Nick Maxwell, Luke Ball, Scott Pendlebury.
At Geelong check out Tom Harley (ret), Cameron Ling, Joel Selwood.

I think there is a big correlation between leadership and on field success.
It's what breeds motivation within playing groups and what really breeds a winning culture.

If Geelong can get someone who has been a part of a leadership group or even captained a club. That would be big.


Glam don't win premierships and only through premierships can you ever build a successful club and a club with a serious following.

But knowing Kevin Sheedy he will take some risks, do some unorthodox things, add some flash and do things his way.

 

[HFF]

People need to ditch names such as Wellingham and Beams as potential trades to GWS for O'meara. Neither will be leaving Collingwood. Both are very much required players, long term.

Also, after all the work we have done and put into Jarrod Witts to get him here, there is no way known we will be packaging him off to Blacktown. Seriously, players of his size with ability are rare, they don't grow on trees and they certainly don't come cheap.

 

[TradeDraft]

What have people thought of Hartley in the VFL?

 

[Knightmare]

What have people thought of Hartley in the VFL?

Good prospect and good value rookie.

We have allot of KPD options on our list (Reid, Tarrant, Keeffe, N.Brown even Gordon) which will make it hard for him.

Is good defensively. Offensively not so much. Very Presti-like and has a similar shut down game.

 

[gifted1]

Good prospect and good value rookie.

We have allot of KPD options on our list (Reid, Tarrant, Keeffe, N.Brown even Gordon) which will make it hard for him.

Is good defensively. Offensively not so much. Very Presti-like and has a similar shut down game.

i dont think he's much like presti at all. He is a phenomenal athlete, high jump, cricket and numerous other sports....moves fantastically around the field although he is very very skinny.

In the NSW v NT game i thought he was very good, took 2 or 3 beautiful sticky handed grabs ghosting in packs, especially a cracker in the last moments of the game.

I think anyone comparing him to presti is judging it purely against his statistical numbers against patton, Vic Metro v NSW......where he kept patton quiet but was very quiet himself, almost no uses of the football.

Im not saying he is going to be another Sam Reid but the way he moves thats the first afl listed player that comes to mind, just a very gifted athlete.

A long way back in his physical development however from what i have seen.

 

[mattys123]

Can we even trade Witts?

I don't think we can, because to put it simply, he isn't on our list yet.

Doesn't matter anyway, Witts will be a Collingwood player next year, and for a long time to come.

O'Meara at best is going to be the next Marc Murphy, Dale Thomas type, but really, how many Aaron Sandilands have their been in the history of our game.

Even Dunstall on AFL Insider (while talking to Mark Neeld) managed to say that most astute judges suspect Witts will be a star, especially after the footage of his best on ground performance in the VFL last week.

I wouldn't trade Witts for Chris Judd, let alone a 17 year old untried kid, ruckman are going to become even more important, and we simply do not have anyone other then an aging Jolly who is capable of taking us forward.

Trade Witts, and I'll attack the Westpac Centre.

 

[Swooop]

Yeah, agree with all the Witts non traders.

There's a long way to go, but with his Sandilands-like size and allegedly BOG in the VFL, when he's an ex Rugby player who's played 20 od games of AFL...not sure the club would let that go in a hurry.

I wonder what Jolly will do when he retires in 2-3 years.

Might the club try and keep him on as ruck coach...he may be pretty excited to stay involved and help develop Witts/Ceglar into the next Jolly/Brown.

 

[TradeDraft]

Even Dunstall on AFL Insider (while talking to Mark Neeld) managed to say that most astute judges suspect Witts will be a star, especially after the footage of his best on ground performance in the VFL last week.

Was that on Tonight?

I wouldn't trade Witts for Chris Judd, let alone a 17 year old untried kid, ruckman are going to become even more important, and we simply do not have anyone other then an aging Jolly who is capable of taking us forward.

Trade Witts, and I'll attack the Westpac Centre.

That is a Massive Call to say you would not trade Witts for Judd.

Well I think Ceglar would be Okay but he be more then a 2nd Ruckman next to Ceglar on the Ground.

Though I agree what you are Saying.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Wow Witts, is not even on our list.

I'm just as firm in the pantaloon department over Witts as anyone BUT if he ain't on our list.....then how the ***** can we even entertain trading him?

Now i would like an Omeara but the cost is too high & we aren't even close to what the market looks like.

We should be looking to what we MIGHT achieve, & I feel that is looking at Caddy or Toy from GCS.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

GWS will only give up 2/3selections this season.

Pick 2/3 in that mini draft won't be cheap/QUOTE]

Why give false hope? GWS are not going to use pick 3 this year.

We would be short any way. As much as you you want Stringer, we wont get him in the mini draft. You know that.

 

[TradeDraft]

Butcher has Delayed Contract Talks until Season End

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/121198/default.aspx

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

This is my two cents on what might happen...

DELIST - MAIN LIST
Daniel Farmer - to be re-rookied
Trent Stubbs - to be re-rookied

TRADE BAIT / GWS FREE AGENT COMPO
John McCarthy
Tyson Goldsack
Cameron Wood (To Port Adelaide with pick for John Butcher?)
Brent Macaffer (To GWS?)

DELIST - ROOKIE LIST
Scott Reed
Tom Hunter (Retired)
Declan Reilly
Jack Perham
Shae McNamara - Has improved but not enough to be a realistic ruck chance. Also Jarrad Witts is ready to assist Ceglar next season in VFL.

ROOKIE PROMOTION
Jye Bolton

ROOKIE RETAIN
Tom Gordon
Paul Cribbin

TRADE TARGETS
John Butcher (Trade bait being 2011 1st round pick and or Cameron Wood. Should be mainly proirity as this team has no KPF depth in VFL. Keeffe is a defender not a forward)
Bernie Vince (As speculated by media, personally I dont think we need him and would only offer a 2 for 1 deal of "trade bait players" mentioned above. Doubt Adelaide takes that kind of offer, plus you would think with new Adelaide coach, drastic changes on good players being traded like Vince are unlikely to be made)
Jack Gunston (If we are dealing with Adelaide for Vince, we should seriously see if we can get Gunston as part of the deal, Melbourne boy, forward prospect)

MAIN DRAFT
First Round Pick: I think this gets traded again (John Butcher)
Second Round Pick: Best player available, would lean toward KPF
Third Round Pick: Tom Sundberg (Collingwood VFL)
Fourth Round Pick: Jye Bolton (Rookie Promotion)

ROOKIE DRAFT:
First Round Pick: Daniel Farmer (Any player drafted to main list gets a mandatory two year contact, if we are delisting a player after one season, we might as well bring them back for VFL team as we are still paying them. Also known at the club as the Toby Thoolen rule)
Second Round Pick: Trent Stubbs (As above)
Third Round Pick: Best player available
Fourth Round Pick: Jarrod Witts (NSW Scholarship promotion)
Fifth Round Pick: Marty Clarke (International Rookie - I believe this is the only way we can get him on Collingwood's list, without other clubs having access to him. If he nominates for the main draft then other clubs will have a chance to draft him. Also isn't their a rule that you can nominate one rookie to play senior list football. Clarke can be that rookie and then we can formally promote him to the senior list for 2013 year.)

I thought I'll update my earlier prediction above as follows:

DELIST - MAIN LIST
*Brad Dick - to be re-rookied. Am a big fan of Dick but his body is letting him down. I would give him another season as a rookie. If it fails again, then we can delist him at the end of next season.
*Daniel Farmer - to be re-rookied.
*Trent Stubbs - to be re-rookied.

Farmer and Stubbs are a little unlucky being first year players but we need to turn at least 3 players over per AFL rules. Originally I had Luke Rounds and Ben Sinclair in the gun but given they have broken through this year for their AFL debuts, I think they have shown enough development to stay. Likewise Simon Buckley who I have been very impressed with when he has filled in at half back / wing.

TRADE BAIT / GWS FREE AGENT COMPO
*John McCarthy
*Cameron Wood (To Port Adelaide with pick for John Butcher?)
*Brent Macaffer (To GWS?)

Methinks with Maxwell's drop in form this year, it will probably be a good idea to keep Goldsack and not dangle him as trade bait.

DELIST - ROOKIE LIST
*Scott Reed
*Tom Hunter (Retired)
*Declan Reilly
*Jack Perham
*Shae McNamara - Has improved but not enough to be a realistic ruck chance and its too late to develop him as a wingman. Also Jarrad Witts is ready to assist Ceglar next season in VFL.

ROOKIE PROMOTION
*Jye Bolton

ROOKIE RETAIN
*Tom Gordon
*Paul Cribbin

TRADE TARGETS
*John Butcher - Trade bait being 2011 1st round pick and or Cameron Wood. Should be mainly proirity as this team has no KPF depth in VFL. Keeffe is a defender not a forward. Was very impressive in his first game last weekend.
*Tom Sundberg - Would hate to see him at another club next season. Starting to think the best way to get him is to get GWS to prelist him then work out a trade for a fringe player or draft picks.
*Marty Clarke - If we wants to come back, like Sundberg, we probably need GWS to prelist and then trade for him to get him on Collingwood's list.

Trade Proposal 1: Butcher for Wood + 1st round pick.

If Port Adelaide say no or Butcher re-commits to Power then..

Trade Proposal 2: Sundberg and Clarke (or another player if Clarke doesn't want to return) for 1st round pick. Pretty much exactly like last year's deal with Gold Coast that net us Krakouer and Ceglar. Almost a season on that looking like a very good win for us thus far. And if we can get another 2 players for 1 draft pick deal with GWS, I would back Derek Hine to go for it.
Would also still try to make an offer even if our first pick was traded. GWS may accept our 2nd and 3rd round pick or GWS compo pick (if rumours are true that Macaffer will sign for them) for these two prelisted players.

I think with the new Adelaide coach, Vince and Gunston are now off limits.

MAIN DRAFT
First Round Pick: I think this gets traded again - To PA for John Butcher or GWS for 2 prelisted players.
Second Round Pick: Best player available, would lean toward KPF
Third Round Pick: Jye Bolton (Rookie Promotion)
Fourth Round Pick: Jarrod Witts (NSW Scholarship Promotion - Now thinking he will bypass the rookie draft and be put straight onto the main list)

ROOKIE DRAFT:
First Round Pick: Daniel Farmer (Any player drafted to main list gets a mandatory two year contact, if we are delisting a player after one season, we might as well bring them back for VFL team as we are still paying them)
Second Round Pick: Trent Stubbs (As above)
Third Round Pick: Brad Dick (Give him another season to get his body right)
Fourth Round Pick: Michael Hartley (NSW Scholarship promotion)
Fifth Round Pick: Caolan Mooney (International Rookie)

 

[KissmeRobbo]

Get rid of Stubbs.. Keep Reilly, youngest on our list and a key position, no point picking up that type of player without a few years to look at him

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-collingwood-magpies?year=2011&sby=15

 

[Medders123]

Do you guys think we will pick up Brett Eddy? He seems like a good prospect.

 

[Knightmare]

Why give false hope? GWS are not going to use pick 3 this year.

We would be short any way. As much as you you want Stringer, we wont get him in the mini draft. You know that.

They can trade more than 2. Unknown if they do.

Some very, very good players eligable for this years mini draft. Just depends on how they think they can maximise value.

Do you guys think we will pick up Brett Eddy? He seems like a good prospect.

Unknown if he is high on our list. Certainly would take him. Better than this years rookie Fwds Perham + Reilly.

 

[Dundalis]

i dont think he's much like presti at all. He is a phenomenal athlete, high jump, cricket and numerous other sports....moves fantastically around the field although he is very very skinny.

In the NSW v NT game i thought he was very good, took 2 or 3 beautiful sticky handed grabs ghosting in packs, especially a cracker in the last moments of the game.

I think anyone comparing him to presti is judging it purely against his statistical numbers against patton, Vic Metro v NSW......where he kept patton quiet but was very quiet himself, almost no uses of the football.

Im not saying he is going to be another Sam Reid but the way he moves thats the first afl listed player that comes to mind, just a very gifted athlete.

A long way back in his physical development however from what i have seen.

How is that different to Presti?

Believe it or not, Presti was also a quality athlete. I'm pretty sure he was drafted highly due to his athletic traits.

 

[Slattery_20]

Presti had lost a bit of athleticism by the end, but then again he was about 40 or so. Tends to happen with most, come into the game and they're quicker and jump higher than the oldies; by the end everyone is quicker and jumps higher. Happens to most, I'm guessing the above only saw old Presti.