Collingwood List Management Thread

[HFF]

Taz wouldn't be on the vet list any time soon, the rule states that the player has to have served 10 years at the one club, unfortunately

Were you born yesterday?

 

[TheFreshBanana]

It doesn't matter if Tarrant is on the veteran list, he's only on a 100,000 salary.

 

[Scodog10]

For pick 3 in the mini draft you'd be lucky if: Wellingham + Blair + 1st rounder would do it.

The way the rule was written that sounds about right, but fortunately in this instance its a buyers market as every club know's that GWS have to trade these picks or risk getting nothing. That's why a deal of Vince + Goldsack + pick 35 could very well get the job done.

Its funny how much their value has changed since you initially started this thread!

 

[KissmeRobbo]

Player eligibility for Veterans list

2011: Davis Johnson
2012: Tarrant
2013: Didak Maxwell
2014: Swan
2015: Shaw
2016: O'Brien Wood
2017: Cloke Thomas Toovey Goldsack
2018: Pendlebury Dawes Wellingham Macaffer N Brown Dick
2019: Reid McCarthy
2020: Beams Blair Keeffe
2021: Sidebottom Rounds

We get some real bang for bucks (pardon the pun) from 2013 on

 

[bradrowe#32]

Taz wouldn't be on the vet list any time soon, the rule states that the player has to have served 10 years at the one club, unfortunately

This is Taz's 10th year with us; 1998 to 2006 and 2011. Unless, the 10 years have to be consecutive.

 

[Knightmare]

The way the rule was written that sounds about right, but fortunately in this instance its a buyers market as every club know's that GWS have to trade these picks or risk getting nothing. That's why a deal of Vince + Goldsack + pick 35 could very well get the job done.

Its funny how much their value has changed since you initially started this thread!

My initial estimates were way wrong. Had no idea how much clubs would be able to give.

Looking at what clubs will have to offer. Wow.
Those teams with low draft picks, looks likely a couple of those could lose players and get compo picks in return. Add a high level young player to that and those type teams would have to be in the box seat.

 

[soreplums]

Player eligibility for Veterans list

2011: Davis Johnson
2012: Tarrant
2013: Didak Maxwell
2014: Swan
2015: Shaw
2016: O'Brien Wood
2017: Cloke Thomas Toovey Goldsack
2018: Pendlebury Dawes Wellingham Macaffer N Brown Dick
2019: Reid McCarthy
2020: Beams Blair Keeffe
2021: Sidebottom Rounds

We get some real bang for bucks (pardon the pun) from 2013 on

I think Taz, Swan and Dids are eligible next year with Cloke, Shaw, Thomas and Pendles in 2013/14.

Does that sound right?

 

[KissmeRobbo]

I think Taz, Swan and Dids are eligible next year with Cloke, Shaw, Thomas and Pendles in 2013/14.

Does that sound right?

No, you have to be turning 30 the year in question and have played 10 seasons for one club

 

[TradeDraft]

You got to think how Witts has gone in the VFL I could easily seeing him put on Senior List and Play NAB Cup and could even play AFL next season

 

[TradeDraft]

Majak Daw (Super athletic tall. Can move into the ruck and looks like that other option as a Leigh Brown replacement. I’m convinced he will make the grade at AFL level and the man is ready to play now. Get him now before value increases)

Very Intresting Trade Target and Would be a Good Get but would North Trade Him?

2nd round:
Marley Williams: Similar to Alex Fasolo. Has a really strong build. Has great kicking penetration and can launch 55m bombs off one foot. Good team player. Has surprising speed for someone so strongly built. Enjoys chasing and tackling.

I would love us to Draft This Kid - Big Upside

[YOUTUBE]Fy3hYbUSOYI[/YOUTUBE]

Rookie draft options I like:
Brett Eddy: Knows our system. KPF upgrade on Perham + Reilly. Can play. Talented and with a few preseasons could be a really nice option. Would take with first rookie selection, no hesitation regardless of injury.
Ben Brown: Super talented kid – natural KPF who can also play some ruck. Improves with every game he plays and has a really unique skill set that makes him stand out. Missed out on getting drafted in 2010 because of injury during U18 champs that year but would have gone well inside the main draft last year and now that he is back from injury continues his strong progress. Draft him. Has the talent to make it in this league even though he will take him

Agree with you there Knight

 

[rachhanley]

I wouldn't mind seeing us go a step further and trade into a stronger draft position.

Who would you trade?

 

[rachhanley]

excuse my ignorance guys, but can someone explain the veterans list to me? i gather, when a player plays 10 years at one club that they go on this list? but what does being on the list mean? (salary cuts?)

 

[Shade]

excuse my ignorance guys, but can someone explain the veterans list to me? i gather, when a player plays 10 years at one club that they go on this list? but what does being on the list mean? (salary cuts?)

you can only have 2 players on the vet list and only half of their salary will count towards the salary cap

 

[Scodog10]

Nah you can have as many as you like.

http://www.afl.com.au/about/tabid/13532/default.aspx#veteran

Veteran Players

Under AFL player rules, each club may nominate or list any number of what are called Veteran Player’s.

In order to be eligible for classification as a Veteran a player must have been the age of 30 as at September 30 in the relevant AFL season and be on the primary list of the AFL club for at least 10 years or in the case of Port Adelaide since the inception of the club.

From 2006 there is now no limit on the number of veteran players a club can list, as long as the player meets the required classification.

http://www.afl.com.au/about/tabid/13532/default.aspx#veteran

The reduction in pay is as follows. If you have one player its a 50% discount, 2 players its a 50% discount for both, for 3 players its 33% each, 4 players is 25% each, 5 players is 20% each and so on.

 

[blaze036]

delist: farmer stubbs ugle ceglar (as his our 5th preferred ruckmen now)

try trade a few young players not in our best 22 for players like vince or O'meara eg Macaffer/carthy goldsack buckley dick brown wellingham. GWS would be very interested in a few of those, and could in one draft get vince O'meara and still have our 1st and 2nd round draft picks if we clear some (not all!) of those players, but with keefe young sinclair fas witts commin thru we still have enough depth to cover their lose.

 

[TradeDraft]

delist: farmer stubbs ugle ceglar (as his our 5th preferred ruckmen now)

WTF De-List Ugle and Ceglar? You have not seen them play before have you?

 

[Knightmare]

You got to think how Witts has gone in the VFL I could easily seeing him put on Senior List and Play NAB Cup and could even play AFL next season

Without a doubt. Witts was fantastic today wasn't he? Big step forward. You can tell he has been working with L.Brown. Absolutely no better man he could be working with. Really teaching him how to be a physical presence out there.
But with Witts being so young expect big ups and downs for the first couple of years in the system.

Witts + Bolton both deserve to be added to the senior list.

I wouldn't be playing Witts in 2012 unless no other options at this stage. Needs to be a development year. Ruckman can't be rushed and need time. Building up that durability is most important. Needs to be treated as a project.

Very Intresting Trade Target and Would be a Good Get but would North Trade Him?

I would love us to Draft This Kid - Big Upside

Agree with you there Knight

North Melbourne would not want to trade Daw.

But like with Shane Mumford he was a required player - on the rookie list at the time but receiving games and would have been senior promoted the following year, but Sydney no.1 ruck position + more money. Ended up being a trade of a draft pick for Mumford. With Daw you would look to go after a similar deal.

We don't have the money to make any HUGE deal for Daw. Also suspect he might be loyal. But the talent is there and since only rookie listed at this stage we can trade for him and make the offer. Hasn't played for the club so the possibility I think could be there if we can offer the right price, he might be open to changing colours. I'm very sure he will make it in this league and looks like a terrific L.Brown replacement. For mine is a better trade target than a big name like a Bernie Vince or whoever else is considered fashionable. In addition to this is a logical fit into our best side for coming years.


Some possible recycled type players I might look at as other possibles: (Obviously delistings haven't happened and since young many of these players will be retained - would consider as late/rookie depending on list vacancies and needs if no appropriate choices available in draft).

Jack Fitzpatrick - Melb (Ruck/Fwd) - Super athletic and has incredible pace for someone his height. Bit of a project. But the work ethic is there and I think with patience he could be a real find. Field kicking is poor at best. But could be a nice, cheap no.2 ruck option for the future.

Jesse Crichton - Freo (Mid/Fwd) - Outside type mid. Nice pace. Still skinny but size will come. Skill level very good. Real energy tackler and gives those 2nd + 3rd efforts continually.

Matthew Panos - WBD (KPF/KPD) - Best at full forward. One of Snoop's favourites a couple of years back. Like his game. When playing at full forward always gets among the goals. Dead accurate and makes the most of limited opportunities. Has also played down back some to reasonable success. Resembles Matthew Lloyd.

David Gourdis - Rich (KPD/KPF) - Super athletic KPP. When playing at AFL level has lacked confidence but at VFL level seems to continually dominate down back. Skills can let him down. But just need a good coach with confidence in his ability.

 

[TradeDraft]

Without a doubt. Witts was fantastic today wasn't he? Big step forward. You can tell he has been working with L.Brown. Absolutely no better man he could be working with. Really teaching him how to be a physical presence out there.
But with Witts being so young expect big ups and downs for the first couple of years in the system.

Witts + Bolton both deserve to be added to the senior list.

I wouldn't be playing Witts in 2012 unless no other options at this stage. Needs to be a development year. Ruckman can't be rushed and need time. Building up that durability is most important. Needs to be treated as a project.

Yes Witts would Have his Up and Downs for 3 or so Seasons. Yeah I would not put out Witts out as AFL

Some possible recycled type players I might look at as other possibles: (Obviously delistings haven't happened and since young many of these players will be retained - would consider as late/rookie depending on list vacancies and needs if no appropriate choices available in draft).

Jack Fitzpatrick - Melb (Ruck/Fwd) - Super athletic and has incredible pace for someone his height. Bit of a project. But the work ethic is there and I think with patience he could be a real find. Field kicking is poor at best. But could be a nice, cheap no.2 ruck option for the future.

Jesse Crichton - Freo (Mid/Fwd) - Outside type mid. Nice pace. Still skinny but size will come. Skill level very good. Real energy tackler and gives those 2nd + 3rd efforts continually.

Matthew Panos - WBD (KPF/KPD) - Best at full forward. One of Snoop's favourites a couple of years back. Like his game. When playing at full forward always gets among the goals. Dead accurate and makes the most of limited opportunities. Has also played down back some to reasonable success. Resembles Matthew Lloyd.

David Gourdis - Rich (KPD/KPF) - Super athletic KPP. When playing at AFL level has lacked confidence but at VFL level seems to continually dominate down back. Skills can let him down. But just need a good coach with confidence in his ability. __________________

I be the most looking at Fitzpatrick as he does still have some good Upside. More as a Forward I reckon

 

[blaze036]

WTF De-List Ugle and Ceglar? You have not seen them play before have you?

i have, both are okay VFL players overall. Ceglar is not going to be in our future team as wood brown jolly witts all ahead of him, and wood/witts will likely be the future ruck combo for many years. Ugle has some good patches, but can be very quiet as well. I dont really understand your outrage, as neither will get close to playing afl next year, and its likely neither of them will be a great afl player better to draft some new kids in their place, in the hope they turn into fasolo/witts ( the MUCH better version of ceglar/ugle)

 

[Knightmare]

delist: farmer stubbs ugle ceglar (as his our 5th preferred ruckmen now)

try trade a few young players not in our best 22 for players like vince or O'meara eg Macaffer/carthy goldsack buckley dick brown wellingham. GWS would be very interested in a few of those, and could in one draft get vince O'meara and still have our 1st and 2nd round draft picks if we clear some (not all!) of those players, but with keefe young sinclair fas witts commin thru we still have enough depth to cover their lose.

Interesting list. It's incredibly difficult this year to make space for players since nearly all have performed this season. Certainly that would be a list for if we are to go for premierships now. But I do believe it would be too short term focused and probably doesn't give the kids a good enough chance of making it.

For now I'm also not against 4 delistings - since Witts + Bolton are both clearly senior list material.

My delistings right now are: Dick (won't get back to his best), Stubbs (late selection and has hardly played. not senior list quality anyway), McCarthy (solid depth but won't ever be part of our best 22. but could make 10 best 22s around the league making him a reasonable trade possible), Buckley (same as McCarthy. even with Johnson likely to retire over the next 2 or so years I see better young talent developing. Not best 22 and don't see him becoming a part of it. But could make 10 best 22s around the league making him a trade possibility)

 

[blaze036]

i think buckley should stay on min wage for depth reasons, and he has shown he could develop into a best 22 player.. maybe

Also i wouldnt delist jMac, his deff got trade value maybe a 2nd round upgrade and 3rd round pick? u can deff get something for him, maybe from gws

 

[Knightmare]

i think buckley should stay on min wage for depth reasons, and he has shown he could develop into a best 22 player.. maybe

Also i wouldnt delist jMac, his deff got trade value maybe a 2nd round upgrade and 3rd round pick? u can deff get something for him, maybe from gws

Could trade both away for picks/ pick upgrade so as not to add another player in return.

Our depth through all the positions both players play is very strong.
(Developing - can play now)
HBF = Tom Young
Mid = Jye Bolton, Paul Seedsman, Josh Thomas
HFF = Alex Fasolo


McCarthy + Buckley look to be the 3rd + 4th least bad delisting option because neither are best 22 or will be and at their respective ages would want to be if they want to be retained. Additionally better young talents can easily cover them. So I see both as very expendible - even though both have had very good seasons and well exceeded expectation.

 

[blaze036]

dick ceglar ugle stubbs surely get delisted ahead of jmac/buckley

 

[TradeDraft]

dick ceglar ugle stubbs surely get delisted ahead of jmac/buckley

Nope I would de-list JMac and Buckley WAY WAY WAY Before Ceglar and Ugle

 

[the mighty T]

Interesting list. It's incredibly difficult this year to make space for players since nearly all have performed this season. Certainly that would be a list for if we are to go for premierships now. But I do believe it would be too short term focused and probably doesn't give the kids a good enough chance of making it.

For now I'm also not against 4 delistings - since Witts + Bolton are both clearly senior list material.

My delistings right now are: Dick (won't get back to his best), Stubbs (late selection and has hardly played. not senior list quality anyway), McCarthy (solid depth but won't ever be part of our best 22. but could make 10 best 22s around the league making him a reasonable trade possible), Buckley (same as McCarthy. even with Johnson likely to retire over the next 2 or so years I see better young talent developing. Not best 22 and don't see him becoming a part of it. But could make 10 best 22s around the league making him a trade possibility)

I cant see bucks being delisted considering the amount of time theyve put into him, games he's played etc. Sure hes not best 22 imo but hes not delist worthy. Id be more than happy to trade him and Jmac though if someone was interested

I agree with the suggestion of Dick, although tbh i see the club holding onto him for another season. Love watching him go about it but i dont see him getting to the level where he can be consistently damaging and i'd prefer to persist with a fasolo type over the archetypical small forward.

also blaze036, i cant agree with your de listings either. Ceglar? aside from the fact that hes only had one season on our list, the bloke is only 20. not to mention the fact that Jolly and Anvil are coming towards the end of their careers and there's no guarantee that wood will stay if hes only going to be a backup ruckman, what would be the reason to delist him? way too early in his career to make that call. Ditto ugle.. wasnt he named as an emergency this season? he cantve been that bad