List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[Pistol Night]

Getting way less for Ollie Henry than what Freo will get for Schultz. Will probably be even less than what Geelong will get for Esava.

Getting less for Adams than what Melb got for a VFL Grundy. Getting less for Grundy to Melbourne as a salary dump than what Melbourne got a year later from Sydney as a even more desperate salary dump.

The Tom Mitchell trade evened out a lot of things for us last year so was hoping we'd try chase more of those. Target cheap veterans that feel needs that other clubs no longer value. The likes of Haynes, Billings probably fit that profile this year.

You can be a difficult to negotiate with flog like Dodoro and be nearing the 20 year anniversary of a single finals win or you can get shit done smoothly and win flags

 

[tranquilli lace]

Getting way less for Ollie Henry than what Freo will get for Schultz. Will probably be even less than what Geelong will get for Esava.

Getting less for Adams than what Melb got for a VFL Grundy. Getting less for Grundy to Melbourne as a salary dump than what Melbourne got a year later from Sydney as a even more desperate salary dump.

The Tom Mitchell trade evened out a lot of things for us last year so was hoping we'd try chase more of those. Target cheap veterans that feel needs that other clubs no longer value. The likes of Haynes, Billings probably fit that profile this year.

I assume this is parody. We just won the flag with the majority of these moves.

Also, don't underestimate how much salary we got off our books with Adams. The bloke missed the last two finals with injury. Happy to let him walk for 33.

 

[Ingy]

Getting way less for Ollie Henry than what Freo will get for Schultz. Will probably be even less than what Geelong will get for Esava.

Getting less for Adams than what Melb got for a VFL Grundy. Getting less for Grundy to Melbourne as a salary dump than what Melbourne got a year later from Sydney as a even more desperate salary dump.

The Tom Mitchell trade evened out a lot of things for us last year so was hoping we'd try chase more of those. Target cheap veterans that feel needs that other clubs no longer value. The likes of Haynes, Billings probably fit that profile this year.

You can be a difficult to negotiate with flog like Dodoro and be nearing the 20 year anniversary of a single finals win or you can get s**t done smoothly and win flags

I agree with this.

But there's a line.

There has to be

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I would value Schultz at pick 15 and fremantle probably do as well.
So our pick 23 (first rounder) doesnt cut it
Our pick 23 and pick 35 also doesnt cut it although it is closer
Our future 1st (lets say freo see us finishing 5th next year ) pick 18 (after bids) doesnt cut it.
Our future pick 18 +38 is close (might cut it)
Our future pick 18 + 34 is about right( will get it done)
Our future pick 18 + pick 23 (what freo supporters want is massive overs)

Thats were freo are at the moment imo.

Shoot me down but one of either furure 1st+38 or future 1st + 34 will get the job done for freo and we should do it because it opens our window a bit more. If we walk away its because we dont think he is worth that price.

 

[sr36]

Getting way less for Ollie Henry than what Freo will get for Schultz. Will probably be even less than what Geelong will get for Esava.

Getting less for Adams than what Melb got for a VFL Grundy. Getting less for Grundy to Melbourne as a salary dump than what Melbourne got a year later from Sydney as a even more desperate salary dump.

The Tom Mitchell trade evened out a lot of things for us last year so was hoping we'd try chase more of those. Target cheap veterans that feel needs that other clubs no longer value. The likes of Haynes, Billings probably fit that profile this year.

You kind of see the pattern, but you don't quite.

 

[Scodog10]

They'd wanna be pretty damn confident if finishing Top 2 next year if they're giving up a future 1st for Schultz.

Like seriously confident.

Why? We can finish 6th and it likely still winds up around 20 given the quality of the 2024 FA crop and NGA/ FS next year which is still massive unders. I’m only sus on it from the perspective of reduced trade currency next year. Schultz improves us so the anxiety around our 2024 result and the end pick is based purely on our 2021 result under an almost completely different FD.

 

[Ugene41]

You kind of see the pattern, but you don't quite.

Adams playing 23 matches for us this year as a VC is clearly a required player. Vs Grundy stuck in the VFL for Melb. Billings not getting a look in. Haynes playing half the matches as sub. I hope you're not suggesting that we were looking to push Adams out as a salary dump?

 

[Gabbo64]

So essentially Adams and our future first round? As good as Wrighty is, he isn’t a great negotiator. We constantly pay overs to bring players in and accept unders for outgoing players.

I agree. I think we should reverse the last two years trades and give the premiership cup back.

 

[sr36]

They'd wanna be pretty damn confident if finishing Top 2 next year if they're giving up a future 1st for Schultz.

Like seriously confident.

You can't be confident that you'll win a prelim a year out

 

[Horaceg]

I would have sold everything for a premiership, as a Club we made some smart moves and we got there without selling the farm.

I dare say without Ollie Henry moving to Geelong so he can have a shorter year with more time off would not have allowed the Mitchell trade. Do we win without Tom, we won’t know but I think we don’t. Bobby Hill, McStay and even Frampton contribute.

We will be in it next year so let’s see what moves us forward in 24.

 

[sr36]

Adams playing 23 matches for us this year as a VC is clearly a required player. Vs Grundy stuck in the VFL for Melb. Billings not getting a look in. Haynes playing half the matches as sub. I hope you're not suggesting that we were looking to push Adams out as a salary dump?

Grundy's a more valuable player. And pick 47 is worthless, so they didn't get more.

 

[Scodog10]

I agree with this.

But there's a line.

There has to be

Does there? The industry talks especially player managers. You’re Robbie D’Orazio and Ben King is left with a choice between Collingwood or Essendon post 2024 do you advise him to choose the club with a reputation of just getting it done (us) v a club that’s a pain in the arse to deal with (Essendon)? Even if we give that F1 for Schultz there’ll be angles for us to exploit next year in order to get future deals done and it’s better to be win/ win than campaigner/ lose…

 

[Ingy]

Does there? The industry talks especially player managers. You’re Robbie D’Orazio and Ben King is left with a choice between Collingwood or Essendon post 2024 do you advise him to choose the club with a reputation of just getting it done (us) v a club that’s a pain in the arse to deal with (Essendon)? Even if we give that F1 for Schultz there’ll be angles for us to exploit next year in order to get future deals done and it’s better to be win/ win than campaigner/ lose…

Cool, so Ben King for Nick and Josh Daicos because 'Wrighty gets it done'.

There has to be a line

 

[Ugene41]

I assume this is parody. We just won the flag with the majority of these moves.

Also, don't underestimate how much salary we got off our books with Adams. The bloke missed the last two finals with injury. Happy to let him walk for 33.

I'm not suggesting they were wrong moves. Just that we never get full value out of our trades which eventually adds up.

Everyone seems to be attributing our premiership this year to GW's trades last year. Yet somehow overlook the fact that the premiership list took a decade to build.

I feel the last time we actually maximised our trade assets was when Hine was leading the trades from 2011-14:

• Beams for Pick 5 (JDG), Crisp and Pick 25 (Greenwood)
• Wellingham traded for a late first round pick
• Dawes for a late first round pick
• Ben Kennedy (first round pick from draft that Wellingham/Dawes were traded for) and second round pick for Howe
• Heath Shaw for Adams
• Lumumba for Varcoe

Getting full value from these trades really helped build the core of our premiership list.

 

[Harry O]

Even if not a KF, there could be other premium midfielders or KPD we can go for.

Otherwise we basically have no capital next year for any big moves. And Schultz is not a big move.

I believe they may have introduced free agency recently which might be an option to acquire said player

 

[Bloben]

If we don't focus on just winning the trade but do what's best for the club overall then we need to get the trade done.

It's bloody hard to go back to back but we will start the year as favourites and then it's up to the club to prove it. Adding in Schultz will improve our forward line. My preference would be to keep the future first as that keeps our options open to improve again in 2025 but the priority should be 2024.

The first half of 2011 was the best Collingwood football I have ever seen yet we have nothing to show for it. We need Fly to push his mantra that our best is in front of us.

 

[Pistol Night]

Cool, so Ben King for Nick and Josh Daicos because 'Wrighty gets it done'.

There has to be a line

I guess Wrighty sees draft picks in the 20s and 30s as speculative and places value on exposed form

 

[Gabbo64]

Cool, so Ben King for Nick and Josh Daicos because 'Wrighty gets it done'.

There has to be a line

The line is-: "does this deal help us win our next flag?" If the answer is yes, then do it.

 

[unplugged]

Just on Schultz, he will be great in tandem with Elliott. But by the same token his inclusion will likely give us the opportunity to legitimately rest Elliott for a few games next year.

Billings likewise whilst not an absolute lock (he could prove us wrong) could give us opportunity to rest the likes of Sidebottom to try and keep us in the top 4 but keep guys fresh.

 

[Jafo]

If we don't focus on just winning the trade but do what's best for the club overall then we need to get the trade done.

It's bloody hard to go back to back but we will start the year as favourites and then it's up to the club to prove it. Adding in Schultz will improve our forward line. My preference would be to keep the future first as that keeps our options open to improve again in 2025 but the priority should be 2024.

The first half of 2011 was the best Collingwood football I have ever seen yet we have nothing to show for it. We need Fly to push his mantra that our best is in front of us.

Willing to bet outside the club and supporters, most will have us finish outside top 4 or even out of the 8.

I don’t care. I love when we are under rated.

 

[Ingy]

The line is-: "does this deal help us win our next flag?" If the answer is yes, then do it.

I don't necessarily agree.

I want to win all of the flags. All of them.

I'm not throwing away a 20% bump in our flag chances for 2025-2030 for a 3% bump in our chance to win it next year.

That's how you end up in Blues Bombers territory. No thanks. Sustainable success was the platform Bucks built this list on and I'm sure Fly has very similar philosophies - because he's a genius

 

[shizzle]

We are in the window right now, you maximize your immediate chances, Schultz does that, he helps us right now and into the future given his age.

It's cute that some extremely biased supporters are losing their minds because they know better than Wrighty, delusional, but cute...

 

[Bramax]

Chicken or cheese ?

Chicken Is overs. Give ‘em cheese.

 

[Lifelong Pie]

I don't necessarily agree.

I want to win all of the flags. All of them.

I'm not throwing away a 20% bump in our flag chances for 2025-2030 for a 3% bump in our chance to win it next year.

That's how you end up in Blues Bombers territory. No thanks. Sustainable success was the platform Bucks built this list on and I'm sure Fly has very similar philosophies - because he's a genius

I'm not sure we will be going with whatever Buckley's methods were, agree that Fly is a genius though

 

[Ugene41]

I believe they may have introduced free agency recently which might be an option to acquire said player

Maybe to acquire say a UFA next year in Schultz?