List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[JuniorB]

Steele Sidebottom averages over 5. Raw marks numbers are often about outrunning your opponent rather than being about good in a marking contest. Grundy is our go to long down the line option and is thus in a lot of marking contests, yet averages less than 1 contested Mark a game. He's not a good mark, but does provide a good contest.

If we know that we can set up with players at the fall of the ball.

 

[magpies42]

Grundy's always taking marks during games. We've seen him play out of the square before vs. Richmond and that was destructive. He's rarely given the chance, though, and that is why people ignore his ability. By swapping a player out, that means the lineup isn't too tall.

That is my assessment also. He has improved over the years and could continue to do so. Quick glance at the stats he averages 1 contested mark a game, Brodie Mihocek 1.38 as a full time forward. The only two players higher last year were Cox and Moore as a backman. There is no reason why Grundy couldn’t become a more consistent marker with more forward time.

I was all for playing Grundy forward to try and develop his forward craft and Lynch in the ruck post his breakout Melbourne game and our season being done and dusted.

2021 AFL League Contested Marks Per Game Leaders

2021 AFL League Contested Marks Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

 

[partypie]

Clubs confirm seven AFL rookies set to be upgraded to the primary list

Two Blues, a premiership Demon and a reliable Saint are among those getting moved to the primary list.

www.sen.com.au

Interesting - seems like Noble won't be promoted yet.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

He doesn't need to be promoted, with all third year rookies now being eligible for a fourth year.

 

[Jen2310]

He doesn't need to be promoted, with all third year rookies now being eligible for a fourth year.

Yeah, they will just promote him next off season. Just like how Mihochek was a rookie for many years before being upgraded, even if he was a regular best 22. Its just a list management thing, thats all.

 

[Quicky]

Steele Sidebottom averages over 5. Raw marks numbers are often about outrunning your opponent rather than being about good in a marking contest. Grundy is our go to long down the line option and is thus in a lot of marking contests, yet averages less than 1 contested Mark a game. He's not a good mark, but does provide a good contest.

A bit like Sidey Grundy is pretty good at finding space.

 

[stormskye]

Cats just picked up Tyson Stengle.

Thanks Sandra

 

[Louie the Lipinski]

Yawn

You missed the point. If he was hard nosed enough to force that deal he obviously has some chutzpah.

 

[KJpie]

It was interesting to listen to the GWS national recruiting manager (Adrian Caruso) on the Herald Sun draft podcast this week.

Sounds like they are likely to only take 3 picks in the ND (currently hold 2, 13, 53, 54, 71, 89); with their 3rd pick likely to be their GWS academy player Josh Fahey. Fahey is fairly highly ranked and may attract a bid in the 25-40 range; meaning Giants will need points to match. They have also been linked to a couple of DFAs (Brander/Gibbons) so that will probably be their last couple of picks off the list here.

It is probably in the Giants best interest to stay away from ND at 2. If they don't bid until after pick 2 then our pick 36 becomes expendable to us and attractive to them. We trade them 36 so they have 36, 53 and 54 to match for Fahey and we use 36 to ask the Giants for their future 2nd. Seems like a win/win for both parties.

Sounds good but do we not need pick 36 for points for Nick, uncertain how another future helps us here?
Thought Dekka said 36 would be used to gather further points in this draft so as to not go into deficit.

 

[Bussie]

A bit like Sidey Grundy is pretty good at finding space.

I find that if a player constantly finds space, it means the opposition don't see them as a threat.

 

[MyManLynch]

I find that if a player constantly finds space, it means the opposition don't see them as a threat.

Or he/she outruns the opposition to find space

 

[MyManLynch]

he already looks 10 years older in that guernsey lol

& 10 lbs heavier

 

[Kappa]

Or he/she outruns the opposition to find space

Only 2 genders?

 

[jmac70]

Only 2 genders?

The They FL…

 

[Quicky]

I find that if a player constantly finds space, it means the opposition don't see them as a threat.

I think in Sidebottom and Grundy's case it's because of hard running and clever running patterns.

 

[jmac70]

I think in Sidebottom and Grundy's case it's because of hard running and clever running patterns.

 

[Kappa]

I think in Sidebottom and Grundy's case it's because of hard running and clever running patterns.

Perhaps, however I think opposition coaches would be happy with Sidebottom being fed the ball then doing his dinky chip kicks that always fall 2 metres short and ruin our momentum.

 

[Bussie]

I think in Sidebottom and Grundy's case it's because of hard running and clever running patterns.

If it was occasionally, yes, but, this is why I added the word consistently. Grundy and Sidey generally don't hurt the opposition, they literally free up a defender and the opp's ruck, who may roam around their forward half. Sidey isn't being tagged if he's playing in the mid, for me, this frees up an opposition mid, if they rotate their mids, they move a top player off Sidey and put a second tier player onto him and boom, you free up a Fyfe to go play forward. Then our defenders notice a free player and they now have two players to defend or they run off their player and leave a forward free.
Without a big intercept defender, we're totally exposed, like Britney exiting her car.
We don't have the forward line to bomb it into, we work it through the midfield until something fronts, most likely Mihochek or Elliott. They have the best defenders on them, who usually spoil them. By then, our forward 50 is flooded, or we turn it over and it's gone. No point having an A grade midfield if they have no target inside 50. We are always chasing our tails. The reason we need to make sure our defenders are firing is because the ball spends so much time down in defence.
If Grundy could fire as a forward, gees it could really change the dynamic of the side at every level.
If Cox could mark consistently and not rely on free kicks to get his shots on goals, he'd be potent.
Cameron can be that forward presence we need, he just needs the confidence. He's only two inches shorter than Cox.
Cameron averages 0.9 goals a game, Cox 1.2.
The difference isn't much, but marking wise, Cameron 4.72 and Cox 3.93.
You gotta clunk the mark, not just wave your arms around and hopes it sticks. Cox plays for the free kicks because he either doesn't have confidence he can mark it, or he's been told by the coaches to play for it because they don't think he can mark it.
I think I've analysed this way too much.

 

[lenny&carl]

Even if Grundy resting forward doesn't match his skillset in the end, it is the sort of thing a new coach can play around with, especially when you're rebuilding from 17th.

 

[The Phantom]

If it was occasionally, yes, but, this is why I added the word consistently. Grundy and Sidey generally don't hurt the opposition, they literally free up a defender and the opp's ruck, who may roam around their forward half. Sidey isn't being tagged if he's playing in the mid, for me, this frees up an opposition mid, if they rotate their mids, they move a top player off Sidey and put a second tier player onto him and boom, you free up a Fyfe to go play forward. Then our defenders notice a free player and they now have two players to defend or they run off their player and leave a forward free.
Without a big intercept defender, we're totally exposed, like Britney exiting her car.
We don't have the forward line to bomb it into, we work it through the midfield until something fronts, most likely Mihochek or Elliott. They have the best defenders on them, who usually spoil them. By then, our forward 50 is flooded, or we turn it over and it's gone. No point having an A grade midfield if they have no target inside 50. We are always chasing our tails. The reason we need to make sure our defenders are firing is because the ball spends so much time down in defence.
If Grundy could fire as a forward, gees it could really change the dynamic of the side at every level.
If Cox could mark consistently and not rely on free kicks to get his shots on goals, he'd be potent.
Cameron can be that forward presence we need, he just needs the confidence. He's only two inches shorter than Cox.
Cameron averages 0.9 goals a game, Cox 1.2.
The difference isn't much, but marking wise, Cameron 4.72 and Cox 3.93.
You gotta clunk the mark, not just wave your arms around and hopes it sticks. Cox plays for the free kicks because he either doesn't have confidence he can mark it, or he's been told by the coaches to play for it because they don't think he can mark it.
I think I've analysed this way too much.

Great post. Clear analysis. Please feel free to continue.

 

[Crazy Tails]

Sounds good but do we not need pick 36 for points for Nick, uncertain how another future helps us here?
Thought Dekka said 36 would be used to gather further points in this draft so as to not go into deficit.

If Daicos gets past a bid at pick 2; we will still have enough points to match from 3 onward without pick 36. So it becomes dispensable. We then wouldn't need to turn it into more points this year.

I think we use it to get back into next years 2nd round; this then gives us a full suite of picks in each round for next year. Giving us the flexibility to then consider live trading out our future first (not my preference) this year or to just strengthen our overall 2022 hand.

 

[Scodog10]

If Daicos gets past a bid at pick 2; we will still have enough points to match from 3 onward without pick 36. So it becomes dispensable. We then wouldn't need to turn it into more points this year.

I think we use it to get back into next years 2nd round; this then gives us a full suite of picks in each round for next year. Giving us the flexibility to then consider live trading out our future first (not my preference) this year or to just strengthen our overall 2022 hand.

Not happening… According to Tyson Otto at least

AFL killed test over body image fears — news.com.au

One of the most dreaded tests in sport was absent from AFL draft camps last month after a memo was sent to clubs announcing it was dead.

apple.news

Nick Daicos, the son of Collingwood legend Peter Daicos, is expected to be selected with the No. 1 overall pick later this month with the Magpies able to snap him up as a father-son selection.

That will bump North Melbourne to the No. 2 spot, where they are expected to select South Australian Jason Horne-Francis as the other clear standout from the 2021 draft crop.

 

[partypie]

Sounds good but do we not need pick 36 for points for Nick, uncertain how another future helps us here?
Thought Dekka said 36 would be used to gather further points in this draft so as to not go into deficit.

We already have our points for a Daicos bid basically covered, especially if North goes with JHF at pick one as they have indicated.

The point at which pick 36 becomes superfluous is if North go with JHF at pick one (as they have indicated) and GWS bids on Darcy with pick 2, because not only will the bid matching cost for Daicos come down, our later picks will also slide forward after the Darcy bid meaning they end up carrying more points as well.

It's all a game of what-if's and being prepared for multiple scenarios, but I think we are perhaps anticipating that the first two names called out will be JHF and Darcy and after that it's game on for live pick trades, especially if GWS be nice to us and don't bid on Daicos at pick 3.

 

[snagbreac]

Not happening… According to Tyson Otto at least

AFL killed test over body image fears — news.com.au

One of the most dreaded tests in sport was absent from AFL draft camps last month after a memo was sent to clubs announcing it was dead.

apple.news

I don't think we need a second rounder for 2022 next year. Let's see what capital we have available. The De Goey narrative is ever changing. Changes are we can make a solid trade without needing to risk decreasing our draft haul this year. If anything, we should look to attack the draft this year.

 

[KJpie]

Our later picks will also slide forward after the Darcy bid meaning they end up carrying more points as well.

Cheers Partie,
How does this come into effect?

 

[KJpie]

Cox plays for the free kicks because he either doesn't have confidence he can mark it, or he's been told by the coaches to play for it because they don't think he can mark it.

I feel under Buck's he was instructed moreso to hit the ball to ground advantage rather than back yourself to mark. Would like to see Cox less heavy in the legs so he could get to more contests/ more mobility.