List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[TradeDraft]

I may be in the absolute minority here, but I am happy to back AJ in for one more season.

He was borderline uncompetitive this year, and that arrogant incident in the VFL where he showed the ball to the opponent only to fumble the bounce and get chased down, pretty much summed up his season.

But the glimpses he showed in 2022 tell me there is some serious talent there. And he reportedly had an excellent preseason this year and got really fit.

I'm not sure why he fell off so far or if he has a future in the AFL. But, I am not writing him off just yet.

Hopefully takes this as a Kick up the Ass and Put the Effort in OR he still does not care and have another bad season and gone at end of 2025 Season

 

[JuniorB]

So, for next year, we have AJ, Macrae and Markov contracted, and Dean, Long, Sullivan and McInnes signed for 1 year.
If none of these make the grade, we'll have a few list spots to fill at the end of next season, and that's not including likely retirements.
We might need more 2025 draft picks.

 

[sideswipe]

This talk of AJ or Markov receiving a kick up the arse/reality check from their delist/relist is complete nonsense.

They are both in their final contract year - if that isn’t motivation enough, then a bit of list management isn’t going to drive them any harder.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Jen2310]

So, for next year, we have AJ, Macrae and Markov contracted, and Dean, Long, Sullivan and McInnes signed for 1 year.
If none of these make the grade, we'll have a few list spots to fill at the end of next season, and that's not including likely retirements.
We might need more 2025 draft picks.

There will be 21 players OOC next year. Will be interesting.

 

[Forethought]

Well I am sure, so you can be sure. Any payments made to a player after they have been delisted go towards the salary cap in the last year they were a listed player. if you think about it, it can't be any other way.

If we are already at 100%, we go past it into that buffer zone up to 105%, which effectively reduces our 2025 cap.

The CBA states “if a player is delisted with a remaining term still on his contract he is to be paid up as per monthly payments schedule to the 31st Oct in the delisted year.
For the period between Nov and all applicable draft periods moving forward the player is to get his monthly payment based on his terms of the contract. Then if he isn’t contracted by the club or any other club at the conclusion of National and rookie drafts he must be paid out his contract in full within 7 days.
This by nature means all his payout would be for the 2025 TPP year

Re your TPP buffer zone. This ability to pay up to 105% is only available if in the previous years you haven’t paid your full TPP. Not as you’ve suggested.

Just for clarity and not trying to be a Pr$&k

 

[RobJD]

So, for next year, we have AJ, Macrae and Markov contracted, and Dean, Long, Sullivan and McInnes signed for 1 year.
If none of these make the grade, we'll have a few list spots to fill at the end of next season, and that's not including likely retirements.
We might need more 2025 draft picks.

I can see us being in a similar position next year to the position that the Cats are in this year. They've delisted 10 players and don't have a strong draft hand - My guess is that the Cats will use some 2025 picks to move back into this year's draft - another interesting watch will be the value of next years picks with the new Draft Value Index.

We'll be favoured by: having Tom Mc as our likely first pick, and the new trading rules - guess we'll be looking at the Free Agent list pretty closely - it will be an interesting watch.

 

[Jen2310]

I can see us being in a similar position next year to the position that the Cats are in this year. They've delisted 10 players and don't have a strong draft hand - My guess is that the Cats will use some 2025 picks to move back into this year's draft - another interesting watch will be the value of next years picks with the new Draft Value Index.

We'll be favoured by: having Tom Mc as our likely first pick, and the new trading rules - guess we'll be looking at the Free Agent list pretty closely - it will be an interesting watch.

Can use rookie draft, SSP, MSD if we had that many spots available. There are other ways to fill them in.
Or trade 2026 picks into 2025, which we may need to do to match a bid

 

[rand corp]

Definitely see this coming season as the last dance for the pies, a lot going to depend on injuries and the form of the pensioners on our list. Fading stars that they are, and we do have a lot of them in the 30+ category.

If we fall short, we are going to have to go to the well, trade ourselves into the next couple of drafts and rebuild the list.

 

[sr36]

That could work, it’s worth a try

It's complicated, because if you do work your arse off, you won't have an arse and then you can't be arsed, which isn't what we want either.

 

[TradeDraft]

Definitely see this coming season as the last dance for the pies, a lot going to depend on injuries and the form of the pensioners on our list. Fading stars that they are, and we do have a lot of them in the 30+ category.

If we fall short, we are going to have to go to the well, trade ourselves into the next couple of drafts and rebuild the list.

What Players would you Trade to get high draft picks?

Not getting High Draft Picks for the 30+ Year Olds

Us getting Perryman and Houston sounds to me the Club think we could have 2-3 years Crack at the Flag as would been better to get into this Draft instead of Mature Age Prospects like Perryman/Membery?

 

[Hardas]

There will be 21 players OOC next year. Will be interesting.

It will, for sure.

If the over-30 group hold up okay (crossing fingers & toes),

we'll have Maynard & Hill;

then best performing youngsters among (Allan, Harry & Ryan already signed):
Jiath, Smit, Steene, Parker & Harrison.

 

[Jen2310]

It will, for sure.

If the over-30 group hold up okay (crossing fingers & toes),

we'll have Maynard & Hill;

then best performing youngsters among (Allan, Harry & Ryan already signed):
Jiath, Smit, Steene, Parker & Harrison.

We'll see some retirements for sure from the list.
Hill isn't OOC until 2026
Maynard they'll work on over the summer you'd think
Harry is OOC end of 2025, so they'll have to give him an extension.

 

[sideswipe]

The CBA states “if a player is delisted with a remaining term still on his contract he is to be paid up as per monthly payments schedule to the 31st Oct in the delisted year.
For the period between Nov and all applicable draft periods moving forward the player is to get his monthly payment based on his terms of the contract. Then if he isn’t contracted by the club or any other club at the conclusion of National and rookie drafts he must be paid out his contract in full within 7 days.
This by nature means all his payout would be for the 2025 TPP year

Re your TPP buffer zone. This ability to pay up to 105% is only available if in the previous years you haven’t paid your full TPP. Not as you’ve suggested.

Just for clarity and not trying to be a Pr$&k

What you have quoted relates to how a delisted player is paid out, there is nothing in what you quoted which relates to TPP calculation. If I get a moment, I will track down the regulation.

All payments to a delisted player go the final cap year in which he was on a list.

 

[Jen2310]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-clubs-cutting-lists-hard-ahead-of-super-draft-as-30-players-remain-in-contract-limbo/news-story/f21bbb7a7befdfb8ad8f26c85eb35487

It has been labelled a ‘Super Draft’, and list managers have been cutting harder and younger than they have in years in an effort to maximise their hauls in late November.
In an effort to create more list space and flexibility entering this year’s draft, which has been touted as the deepest in years, clubs are culling former top picks that were once earmarked as the future of their teams.

There have been more than 100 delistings across the competition, although several clubs have committed to rookie listings players they no longer had space on the senior list for.

Collingwood will take that step with premiership player Oleg Markov

37

Oleg Markov

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

3star

MG

228.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.4

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

4.2

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

295.2

5star

and forward Ash Johnson, while Sydney will re-rookie Aaron Francis and Joel Hamling

29

Joel Hamling

Age

31

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.0

3star

after they were cut this week.

Players still out of contract (updated 30 October)​

Player	Team
Pat Dangerfield	Geelong
Mitch Duncan	Geelong
Rhys Stanley	Geelong
Hugh Jackson	Port Adelaide
Luke Edwards	West Coast

The total number of delisted players has eclipsed 100 for the first time since the Covid-impacted 2020 season, which had 121.

Several former first-round selections have already been cut, including Denver Grainger-Barras (2020 No.6), Cooper Stephens (2019 No.16) and Ned McHenry

25

Ned Mchenry

Age

24

Ht

179cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.3

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

9.7

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.0

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.0

1star

(2018 No.16).

Players from the 2022 draft class, who all came out of their rookie contracts at the end of this season, have also found their futures at risk if they had not broken into the senior side.

AFL delistings: Past five off-seasons​

Year	Delistings	Ave Age	Ave Games
2024	103*	23.6	34.9
2023	95	23.8	42.9
2022	94	23.8	41.6
2021	95	24.3	48.7
2020	121	23.3	35.8

100+ game delistings​

Player	Games
Seb Ross	211
Gary Rohan	204
Adam Tomlinson	185
Sam Day	155
Jack Martin	151
Brandan Parfitt	130
Matt Taberner	125
Tom Clurey	124
Alex Witherden	121
Riley Bonner	112
Ethan Hughes	107

 

[SchuPie]

Re Rookie list
Hate say it but I completely agree with Cornes.
Rookie list is a joke.
Nearly ever club has exploited it.
There’s no way we should be able to put Johnson and Leggy on the rookie list.
It was set up by the AFL to give untried players a chance - what a farce it has become.
They need to fix the parameters or get rid of it and just have one main list size.

 

[TradeDraft]

Re Rookie list
Hate say it but I completely agree with Cornes.
Rookie list is a joke.
Nearly ever club has exploited it.
There’s no way we should be able to put Johnson and Leggy on the rookie list.
It was set up by the AFL to give untried players a chance - what a farce it has become.
They need to fix the parameters or get rid of it and just one main list size.

Serves no Purpose anymore so just get rid of it

Only keep the Cat B List

 

[Jen2310]

Re Rookie list
Hate say it but I completely agree with Cornes.
Rookie list is a joke.
Nearly ever club has exploited it.
There’s no way we should be able to put Johnson and Leggy on the rookie list.
It was set up by the AFL to give untried players a chance - what a farce it has become.
They need to fix the parameters or get rid of it and just have one main list size.

Or at least put very strict rules on it, that only players that have played a certain amount of games or haven't been on an afl list.
I think they should increase the cat B list from 2 to 4

 

[Matt_352]

Looking like we're going with Frampton and Dean as the back up key defenders. Would it be worth putting Dean on the main list and only taking 2 in the draft. That way we could leave a rookie spot for someone like tomlinson or clury. Our side looks well served everywhere else except those 2 KD Positions

Literally makes ZERO sense to not get Tomlinson, the cupboard is absolutely bare currently for KPD.

 

[SchuPie]

Or at least put very strict rules on it, that only players that have played a certain amount of games or haven't been on an afl list.
I think they should increase the cat B list from 2 to 4

That’s exactly what I’m saying

 

[sr36]

It's complicated, because if you do work your arse off, you won't have an arse and then you can't bearsed, which isn't what we want eitheru0i8i8i8

I think they should get rid of cat a rookies, but I don't think ours are really a rort. We've taken heaps through rookie means recently, so many that last year we had to add Markov and Steene to the senior list prematurely in order to not have too many rookies. It's only being forced to put a couple of rookies on the senior list last year that has led to us doing what we're doing with Oleg and Johnson.

The real rort is for matching points - which we do when we have a player to match and will probably do next year - where you delist and then re-rookie in order to create a couple of fake list vacancies to take extra matching points into the draft. Getting rid of cat a rookies won't stop the real rort.

 

[Scodog10]

So, for next year, we have AJ, Macrae and Markov contracted, and Dean, Long, Sullivan and McInnes signed for 1 year.
If none of these make the grade, we'll have a few list spots to fill at the end of next season, and that's not including likely retirements.
We might need more 2025 draft picks.

It’s going to be a tricky one to navigate!

You would expect that most of that group goes (let’s say 5), at least 2 veterans (I’m going to guess Cox and Pendles) and another by trade which means 8 new additions will be required in a supposedly weak draft year. That’s leaving a lot of heavy lifting to FA and late draft picks (most of our hand will be chewed up by a McGuane bid).

Sure we’d be picking late draft, but I can’t help feeling that the better strategy might have been cutting one of Macrae or McInnes as well and taking a 4th ND pick in 2024. It becomes even bleaker if the plan is to move a 2024 pick into 2025 on draft night once our picks come in…

 

[SchuPie]

Literally makes ZERO sense to not get Tomlinson, the cupboard is absolutely bare currently for KPD.

Matt, I’m starting to think that you want Tomlinson on our list.

 

[sideswipe]

The CBA states “if a player is delisted with a remaining term still on his contract he is to be paid up as per monthly payments schedule to the 31st Oct in the delisted year.
For the period between Nov and all applicable draft periods moving forward the player is to get his monthly payment based on his terms of the contract. Then if he isn’t contracted by the club or any other club at the conclusion of National and rookie drafts he must be paid out his contract in full within 7 days.
This by nature means all his payout would be for the 2025 TPP year

Re your TPP buffer zone. This ability to pay up to 105% is only available if in the previous years you haven’t paid your full TPP. Not as you’ve suggested.

Just for clarity and not trying to be a Pr$&k

You need to go to the correct document. With regard to how to determine what payments go to the TPP in any particular year, the operative document is the AFL Rules, not the CBA(don't need the pesky players interfering with cap calculations) - think the below might be the latest copy. Rule 28 is what you are looking for. A lot of the definitions come into it as well - the main one being that a player is no longer a Player once they are not on a List.

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2023/03/01/b34247f1-8c79-46ae-b564-586716a46bfc/Amended-AFL-Rules-effective-28-February-2023.pdf

You are correct about the availability or unavailability of the buffer - so if the club was insane enough not to re-rookie a player, which then resulted in exceeding the TPP, and they didn't have an available buffer, they would cop a smack on the botty - in the form of sanctions - from the AFL.

Maybe think of what the Swans did with Tippett a few years back. He retired but they re-rookied him to get his payments into the next Footy Year.

 

[Jen2310]

Matt, I’m starting to think that you want Tomlinson on our list.

The moment we re-signed reef and long was the moment we washed our hands of Tomlinson. Unless we put HH on inactive list and trial him through pre-season.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

It’s going to be a tricky one to navigate!

You would expect that most of that group goes (let’s say 5), at least 2 veterans (I’m going to guess Cox and Pendles) and another by trade which means 8 new additions will be required in a supposedly weak draft year. That’s leaving a lot of heavy lifting to FA and late draft picks (most of our hand will be chewed up by a McGuane bid).

Sure we’d be picking late draft, but I can’t help feeling that the better strategy might have been cutting one of Macrae or McInnes as well and taking a 4th ND pick in 2024. It becomes even bleaker if the plan is to move a 2024 pick into 2025 on draft night once our picks come in…

Then again if, say, Reef goes even okay playing down back this coming year, he’s an easy retain at end-2025 because we have so many older players retiring and no draft picks.