List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[Brad Goodman]

Well I think it does matter. Recruiters are hired / retained amd paid to pick good players. If you have more misses than hits, you need to be replaced. Derek hasn’t had an amazing record with actual national draft picks for a while now. He’s about at retirement age anyway, but clubs like Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney are the benchmark when it comes to drafting. And we need to catch up…

 

[76woodenspooners]

Derek hasn’t had an amazing record with actual national draft picks for a while now. He’s about at retirement age anyway, but clubs like Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney are the benchmark when it comes to drafting. And we need to catch up…

Our recent ND drafting hasn’t been that bad …

• McCreery has cemented himself in the best 22.
• Henry has shown to be a great get - not the fault of the drafters he went to Geelong.
• Ed Allan had a cracking end to the season and gives us optimism for 2025
• Harrison was showing great promise - not the drafters fault he did his ACL
• Richards must be showing something if he’s getting a generous offer from Port.
• Jury is still out on HDM and TJ

 

[Apex36]

You're overstating how much difference there is between pick 10 and 15-18.

I think you’re underestimating it tbh.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Well I think it does matter. Recruiters are hired / retained amd paid to pick good players. If you have more misses than hits, you need to be replaced.

I think you’ll find all clubs have more misses than hits.

For example, how many players from this list of names do you recognise?

Ryan Clarke
Will Gould
Hugo Hall-Kahan
Cameron Owen
Lachlan Rankin
Marc Sheather
Flynn Kroeger
Sam Menagola
Oscar Riccardi
Sam Simpson
Cooper Whyte
Lachie Bramble
Fergus Greene
Emerson Jekka
Ned Long
Josh Morris
Fion O’Hara

Spoiler

It’s the delistings for the three clubs that you suggested we should be emulating (Swans, Geelong and Hawks) in just 2023 alone

 

[Scodog10]

Our recent ND drafting hasn’t been that bad …

• McCreery has cemented himself in the best 22.
• Henry has shown to be a great get - not the fault of the drafters he went to Geelong.
• Ed Allan had a cracking end to the season and gives us optimism for 2025
• Harrison was showing great promise - not the drafters fault he did his ACL
• Richards must be showing something if he’s getting a generous offer from Port.
• Jury is still out on HDM and TJ

Playing devils advocate it has been quite a while since we had a “live” pick who exhibited star power. Of that group Henry looks more than handy and Allan could get there, but the rest are role players.

My guess though is that a lot of it is hand wringing over stuff like Stephenson over Naughton or something partly out of Hine’s control like the pick 2 trade. It’s such minuscule margins though because if you nail those two we’re top 4 this year.

I would suggest though that Hawthorn’s recruitment between 2019 and 2022 was exceptional. Day at 13, Newcombe in the MSD, MacDonald at 26 and Weddle at 18 is picking the eyes out of those good, but not high end picks. It’s scary to think just how good they can be if the likes of Ward, McKenzie and Watson really come on. Again though that’s how quick the wheel can turn because no one is suggesting that 6 months ago.

On topic has anyone monitored Hustwaite at VFL level? He’s another in that mid draft range who I was on the fence with him in his draft year as the alternative to Ryan (I was never and still am not on the Cowan train), but now might be the time to have a crack while he’s still young enough where being kept out by Pendles and Mitchell isn’t the worst thing.

 

[76woodenspooners]

My guess though is that a lot of it is hand wringing over stuff like Stephenson over Naughton

If a magic wand was waved and us punters were given a choice of drafting this year either …

(A) The emphatic 2025 Rising Star who would be part of a team to get us to the 2025 Grand Final.

… or …

(B) A KPF who would take a few years to develop but ultimately become a 30 - 50 goal a year forward.

I don’t think people would find the answer obvious. That’s basically what the choice of Stephenson or Naughton looked like at the time.

Obviously with the benefit of hindsight things became different, but the recruiters can’t reasonably be blamed for not foreseeing that.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I would suggest though that Hawthorn’s recruitment between 2019 and 2022 was exceptional. Day at 13, Newcombe in the MSD, MacDonald at 26 and Weddle at 18 is picking the eyes out of those good, but not high end picks. It’s scary to think just how good they can be if the likes of Ward, McKenzie and Watson really come on. Again though that’s how quick the wheel can turn because no one is suggesting that 6 months ago.

Hawthorn have been in a position to invest games into players and build their development. It’s coming together for them.

We haven’t really been at that stage since 2021 when we were pumping games into players like Sier, Macrae, Poulter, Ginnivan, Rantall, and Ruscoe.

 

[Frampton17]

What injuries has he had?

He had a knee injury five years ago at the Suns. A dislocated shoulder at the beginning of 2023 and missed half the season and missed a chunk of pre-season earlier this year.

 

[Scodog10]

I think you’ll find all clubs have more misses than hits.

For example, how many players from this list of names do you recognise?

Ryan Clarke
Will Gould
Hugo Hall-Kahan
Cameron Owen
Lachlan Rankin
Marc Sheather
Flynn Kroeger
Sam Menagola
Oscar Riccardi
Sam Simpson
Cooper Whyte
Lachie Bramble
Fergus Greene
Emerson Jekka
Ned Long
Josh Morris
Fion O’Hara

Spoiler

It’s the delistings for the three clubs that you suggested we should be emulating (Swans, Geelong and Hawks) in just 2023 alone

This guy is on a level with Noble and has effectively ended JJ’s career. He’s yet another exceptional pick of the Hawks in that 2019-22 period. Agree with the rest.

 

[SwanBet]

If we can bring in pick 20 for Noble and trade in Keane and Peatling/Davies on the cheap, it will be a nice trade period for us.

The other real position of need we need to look at is a small defender/rebounder with the departure of Noble. I think we have some nice prospects on the list in this position (Parker/Ryan/TJ) but I don't think any of those 3 are ready to be a regular best 22 player. I think there could be merit in bringing in someone if we think they would be a best 22.

Could Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

28

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

be a nice stop gap player who you can basically get for free?

 

[manicpie]

Has ned long been delisted

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Interesting that a couple of journos have gone with Petracca not finding a suitor due to his salary peaking at 1.7m (?) over the next few years, rather than no club wanting to match the asking price that will be set by Melbourne. Unless we believe what we're seeing coming out of Melbourne: there is no asking price because he won't be traded under any circumstances.

Would've thought if he did want to leave, Petracca's camp would be well and truly aware that he'd have to have his figures manipulated (say back to an even spread each year or otherwise) or even reduced somewhat.

I am probably pleading the story to stick around for our sake but I doubt we've heard the last of it. Petracca doesn't owe Melbourne much but maybe the statement to settle the ship was the least be could do.

I refuse to believe they'll hang onto him if he's as disgruntled as he's made out to be unless they clear out some of the shit that's making him disgruntled.

Not finding a suitor because his salary is too high is pretty much the same thing as being unable to get a deal done with Melbourne.

For any trade to occur, either Melbourne would need to be willing to subsidise salary, or petracca might need to be willing to move to a basket case club like West Coast. Or a bit of both. Neither of those options were likely.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Has ned long been delisted

Why do you ask?

He’s only on a six month contract so wouldn’t surprise me if they want to make room on the rookie list… for example to create a spot for ash Johnson to be delisted and re rookied

 

[Scodog10]

Hawthorn have been in a position to invest games into players and build their development. It’s coming together for them.

We haven’t really been at that stage since 2021 when we were pumping games into players like Sier, Macrae, Poulter, Ginnivan, Rantall, and Ruscoe.

Only my two cents, but I think we’re approaching that position if not this coming year then probably the next which is why it’s so important to retain and then stagger the departures of our veterans.

If we struggle in 2025 it’s likely we’ll see the end of at least 3 best 23 players and in 2024 we didn’t have the critical mass of U22’s capable of stepping up. You add one or two more to the likes of Allan, HH, Richards (if he’s retained), Parker, Keane and say Davies or Peatling and you can see the wheel turn on that transition very quickly. I think this is where Hawthorn have nailed their rebuild better than the Roos.

The Hawks retained more of that experience and kept bringing in established senior types (Amon, Impey and Frost) whereas the Roos cut hard early and have been balls to the wall in the draft. If I were them I’d be dangling pick 2 this year for an established type like a Ryan, Sinclair or Redman. Bringing in Smillie, Reid, Langford or Smith might look great on paper, but in trying to retain LDU they need a bit more bang for their buck immediately.

On the 2017 draft that’s how I saw it. We were largely a group of plodders coming out of that season and needed a bit of zip so the traits of Stephenson were a tick. The problem was above the shoulders which is difficult for a recruiter to assess because they get extremely limited access to the general draft pool kids and who in his inner circle was going to fess up on that front? You couple that with Moore still a potential KPF of the future with Naughton projected as a KPD and I’m not in a position to cast judgement.

 

[Scodog10]

Has ned long been delisted

I’ve seen nothing official yet. It’s a curious question to ask out of the blue?

 

[manicpie]

I’ve seen nothing official yet. It’s a curious question to ask out of the blue?

Someone said it on another thread today

 

[NMBB]

I can't even remember Hardie playing for us - must have blacked it out.

I remember Hardie waving his jumper at Malthouse

 

[Kirby]

Someone said it on another thread today

Harry O said it in the Sullivan thread.

 

[manicpie]

Harry O said it in the Sullivan thread.

I might have to take it with a grain of salt if Harry or said it

 

[pablo disco bar]

I remember Hardie waving his jumper at Malthouse

Because he dominated in vfl but only played 2 games when Peter daicos was injured

 

[Hugg]

If we can bring in pick 20 for Noble and trade in Keane and Peatling/Davies on the cheap, it will be a nice trade period for us.

The other real position of need we need to look at is a small defender/rebounder with the departure of Noble. I think we have some nice prospects on the list in this position (Parker/Ryan/TJ) but I don't think any of those 3 are ready to be a regular best 22 player. I think there could be merit in bringing in someone if we think they would be a best 22.

Could Caleb Daniel be a nice stop gap player who you can basically get for free?

Free????

 

[manicpie]

Because he dominated in vfl but only played 2 games when Peter daicos was injured

That was frustrating. We didn't give him a chance. He was killing it in the reserves

 

[Fruit]

I remember Hardie waving his jumper at Malthouse

Wasn’t that when he played for the Bulldogs

 

[SchuPie]

I think you’re underestimating it tbh.

It does my head in

 

[NMBB]

Wasn’t that when he played for the Bulldogs

I believe it was - got fair bit of media coverage at the time