List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[Pragmatic Shill]

Kane is not completely wrong, I agree that Houston and Perryman will be the new senior players when all of our veterans retire which is important. But our youth is average at best, and we have one of the oldest lists in the competition. I find it strange that so many people think our youth is elite.

I find it equally strange that some people won't be happy until at least 25% of our list are on the tail end of puberty.

 

[satanshoof101]

It’s not elite but it’s unknown to a degree.
Age demographics change quickly.
A few retirements and the average age would drop significantly

Our VFL team won 4 games of 18 games and we finished second last on the ladder with a horrible percentage. I agree there is still a lot of unknown but that doesn't mean our youth is going to be AFL quality.

 

[satanshoof101]

I find it equally strange that some people won't be happy until at least 25% of our list are on the tail end of puberty.

I can agree with that but of that 25% how many are of AFL quality?

 

[Unknown Identity]

Kane is not completely wrong, I agree that Houston and Perryman will be the new senior players when all of our veterans retire which is important. But our youth is average at best, and we have one of the oldest lists in the competition. I find it strange that so many people think our youth is elite.

It's definitely concerning that half our best 22 will be 30+ next season.

But with cap space opening up we can target younger free agents.

I'm hopefull we can still get Houston and keep a pick in the 20s for this year's draft.

McGuane in next year.

Our 26 and unders by the end of next year

Daicos x 2
Perryman
Quaynor
McReery
McGuane
Harrison
Allan
Hill

It's not a terrible core of youth.

Then the jury is out in guys like Smit, Ryan, Jiath, Parker, DeMattia, Dean.

We really need 2 or 3 of these to develop into best 23.

But if you're talking about A grade youth.
Yes we have a shortage, but that always happens when you never bottom out, unless you're Brisbane, GWS or Sydney with their academy picks.

 

[brysie]

All the Dean fans here can defend him all you want.

But he has been shocking in the AFL.

Pies would get smashed by good teams with multiple good goal kickers if he was to field a finals game. He gets beaten so bad, he literally breaks the entire defensive structure for Pies as other players have to try to make up for his horribleness.

Again, a miracle is required for him to be a key player for Pies as a premiership contender.

Coaches back me since they removed Dean after the first 3 weeks, which were embarrassing for him.... Pies looked good when he was off the game. Coaches agree.

The coaches removed him after 2 games, not the first 3 weeks. They then brought him back for the game against Fremantle. He played 8 games, of which we won 3, drew 1 and lost 4.

The bigger issue in the first few games of the season was the lack of pressure that our midfield was able to apply to the opposition. As everyone could see, this lack of pressure caused a complete breakdown in our team defensive structure and led to easy goals being kicked out the back.

Dean may not be a world-beater, however your damning assessment of him is based on 8 games of footy in a season where a number of our players were either injured or unprepared.

To say the coaches agreed with you ignores the fact that he was brought back to play after the first 2 games of the season.

 

[sr36]

2021 rookie draft for dean I believe, but he's barely had time to prove himself given his foot injuries, but showed good signs late in the season.
Eyre we have had for 6 months. Bit too early to say for either of them. Both need a bit extra time being talls and being rookies, the afl are allowing the new rookie rules as a way to let the talls develop, which probably will help their cause.

Dean's from the 2020 draft class but got passed over.

He's a smart player, but he's still very much a prospect who needs a lot of development, and he's a prospect who projects to lacking speed and strength and doesn't really attack it in the air to compensate. I think we can find a better prospect more likely to make it.

Eyre looked miles off physically and in game sense.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Interesting discussion around now vs future and "why not both".

I'm a huge believer that 18 (and even 19) year old players are a complete waste of a list spot.
They are there to learn and for the club to work out whether they have a future.

I also don't think that you can't play more than 2 if you happen to luck out and get a few ready to go.

Hence, the idea of 'loading up' with 4-5 picks in a single year might sound great if you hit all of them (which the only team to do that were Hawks & Cats around 2000 when they absolutely nailed their top 20 picks).

But at the end of the day, that's 25% of the list that is 'unplayable'.
Which means the year is tied 100% to your injury list.

Finding early 20's role players, whom you have better read on whether they are capable, removes a lot of the uncertainty.

You only need to find 1-2 players each year to keep the list healthy.
Whether that's natural growth from players drafted 2 years ago, or trades / FA.....

So the idea of having to bottom out and hit the draft is more about mismanagement and inability to identify and bring in talent than anything else.

What we've done since 2021 is all we need to keep doing.

Don't need the sell the farm for more superstars.
Just keep finding ways to bring in 1-2 each year that will play games and we'll be fine.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

It's definitely concerning that half our best 22 will be 30+ next season.

But with cap space opening up we can target younger free agents.

I'm hopefull we can still get Houston and keep a pick in the 20s for this year's draft.

McGuane in next year.

Our 26 and unders by the end of next year

Daicos x 2
Perryman
Quaynor
McReery
McGuane
Harrison
Allan
Hill

It's not a terrible core of youth.

Then the jury is out in guys like Smit, Ryan, Jiath, Parker, DeMattia, Dean.

We really need 2 or 3 of these to develop into best 23.

But if you're talking about A grade youth.
Yes we have a shortage, but that always happens when you never bottom out, unless you're Brisbane, GWS or Sydney with their academy picks.

Pretty comfy that Smit, Jiath & Parker will play 5+ years for us (from what i saw this year)
If those three force their way in, that's a good chunk of the team in this age bracket in the next 2 years.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

 

[Ugene41]

Our VFL team won 4 games of 18 games and we finished second last on the ladder with a horrible percentage. I agree there is still a lot of unknown but that doesn't mean our youth is going to be AFL quality.

That was more the result of injuries and having a bare bones VFL team that had no consistency in players available for selection.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

He was a big fan of Geelong having a throw at the stumps for Clayton Oliver. Not exactly a future focused move.

 

[Axl the great]

We should have played Darcy in the VFL all year and Dean in the seniors. That would have fixed our defensive woes. Geez, Axl, your strumming some weird chords today.

Mate cmon, obviously Darcy has a lot more credits and was never playing VFL, my point is he was also terrible at times this year.
Dean was poor early on but played well when he was recalled.
I think you know that’s what I meant BTW

 

[Exambolor]

The campaigner actually went and looked for the damn tweet lmao.

He wasn’t tagged in it either

 

[Carlthetruth]

Dean's from the 2020 draft class but got passed over.

He's a smart player, but he's still very much a prospect who needs a lot of development, and he's a prospect who projects to lacking speed and strength and doesn't really attack it in the air to compensate. I think we can find a better prospect more likely to make it.

What does that mean 'doesn't attack it in the air'? Does that mean Dean doesn't spoil because I'm quite sure he does and he's good overhead. Just because someone says it doesn't make it so. He got spanked in some marking contests in his first few games but for some bizarre reason some people think he can't gain experience or get better, newsflash, he can!

 

[gouki88]

Does he think instantly means not lasting? Was Schultz only going to play one year?

 

[cfc19902010]

I think the youth situation isn’t as bad as some say

Tommy mcguane next year
Allan looks like an A grader
Smit shows potential
Parker looks good
HH coming on
Jiath and Harry could make it
I’d persevere one more year with reef and Finn

Plus the best player in the AFL plays with us and is only 21

 

[celestial]

Let go all in for years we have pendles, sidebottom,Howe, checkers,cox , Elliot. Fairly confident in saying that they will all retire within 2 years. Definitely not all at once, you would think they will stagger the retirements in 2 stages. We replace them with the young players waiting in the wings and go hard at the drafts just before tassie come in. Spend about 2-3 years giving games to the next generation, hopefully they will all come good by the time Nick turns 25-26, then set ourselves up for a 5-7 year premiership window.

 

[Axl the great]

Old Axl has had it in for Darcy all year, which is fair enough but the alternative was to play others ahead of Darcy and that's just silly

I’ll admit I was his harshest critic on positioning especially, but please note, a hell of a lot of the footy experts and ex players agreed with me 100% and showed footage every week, so I feel totally vindicated.
And if you think that anything anyone says on here will bother me today think again.
I’ve had to collect 3 poo samples from my son this morning for lab tests while trying not to vomit.
Tomorrow might be a different story

 

[Fruit]

Winning a flag is hard. Ask Port Adelaide. I think recruiting for the future is equally as big a risk as recruiting for now. No guarantees either way. With McStay and Mihocek hopefully getting an extended run of games together next year I can see the merit in having a crack for the now.

 

[Ugene41]

Interesting discussion around now vs future and "why not both".

I'm a huge believer that 18 (and even 19) year old players are a complete waste of a list spot.
They are there to learn and for the club to work out whether they have a future.

I also don't think that you can't play more than 2 if you happen to luck out and get a few ready to go.

Hence, the idea of 'loading up' with 4-5 picks in a single year might sound great if you hit all of them (which the only team to do that were Hawks & Cats around 2000 when they absolutely nailed their top 20 picks).

But at the end of the day, that's 25% of the list that is 'unplayable'.
Which means the year is tied 100% to your injury list.

Finding early 20's role players, whom you have better read on whether they are capable, removes a lot of the uncertainty.

You only need to find 1-2 players each year to keep the list healthy.
Whether that's natural growth from players drafted 2 years ago, or trades / FA.....

So the idea of having to bottom out and hit the draft is more about mismanagement and inability to identify and bring in talent than anything else.

What we've done since 2021 is all we need to keep doing.

Don't need the sell the farm for more superstars.
Just keep finding ways to bring in 1-2 each year that will play games and we'll be fine.

Yea we're more likely to replenish the list if we remain in contention as a top side and an attractive FA destination to keep topping up in that 25-27 year old range.

 

[sr36]

What does that mean 'doesn't attack it in the air'? Does that mean Dean doesn't spoil because I'm quite sure he does and hes good overhead. Just because someone says it doesn't make it so. He got spanked in some marking contests in his first few games but some people for a bizarre reason think he can't gain experience or get better, newsflash, he can!

Doesn't launch at the footy and hit the ball at a high point.

If you lack strength and pace and are only average or below height for a kpd you've pretty much got to launch - how else are you competing in a marking contest. Positioning and reading it well like he does is great, but how is he going to contest?

I think he's got some chance of making it, but so too will anyone we replace him with. I'd like them to have lists of 50, so you could give blokes longer, but we don't - instead the aflpa have let there be regular job cuts to increase salaries of those who survive.

 

[MadMaynard]

Having a look at 3 three premiership sides and breaking into categories how the got to the team

Trade/Free Agent - Cats (7), Us (9), Lions (7)
FS/Academy - Cats (1), Us (3), Lions (3) (Didn't include J Daicos or Andrews as no bids ever came)
Top 20 - Cats (2), Us (3), Lions (7)
Other - Cats (13), Us (8), Lions (6)

Lions obviously hit the draft harder but 4 of those top 20 picks came from two consecutive drafts and only Rayner and McCluggage the real top end.

The list builds over time - we have brought in Perryman, McStay, Hill, Lipinski, Schultz, Cameron, and hopefully Houston
add to Daicos x 2, Maynard, De Goey, Moore, Beau, Quaynor. Thats 14 that should be around for at least the next 4 years at least.

Get a at least 1 -2 of our kids to become solid AFL players, if not above average.

Bring in more Free Agent and Trades - then you only need to get 4-5 solid AFL players every 3 drafts - and the list naturally regenerates - and back in development into to turn a few into A graders.

Plus with how good the kids come into the system these days there would be some top 50-100 players in 2028/2029 that aren't even in the system yet, who is to say they wont be on the Pies list.

 

[gtrain23]

Slow trade morning I’m guessing?

 

[JuniorB]

He is Collingwood royalty and hopefully would love to come home

The same could have been said about Liam Picken.

 

[Fat Jesus]

Slow trade morning I’m guessing?

They don't start talks until 11am or after.