List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[sr36]

I wouldn’t consider the way he was deployed in round one setting up for success. He was rooted in the square against the premier defender of the competition with the ball kicked on his head.

Still you have offer something when things don’t go your way.

That's the role he plays. He was a 20 game deep forward playing as a deep forward. It was that or ressies.

 

[Hardas]

I'm still not sure AJ really has what it takes at AFL-level in the modern game, even when his mind is completely in the game.

He's not big enough to be anything other than a third tall, but he kind of plays like an all-or-nothing marking option with few defensive instincts.

 

[Kappa]

I'm still not sure AJ really has what it takes at AFL-level in the modern game, even when his mind is completely in the game.

He's not big enough to be anything other than a third tall, but he kind of plays like an all-or-nothing marking option with few defensive instincts.

It's crazy how Ash Johnson is 27 and we're still having these conversations.

He shouldn't even be on our list, some of his VFL performances are down right embarrassing.

Worst defensive efforts out of any player on an AFL list.

 

[Hardas]

It's crazy how Ash Johnson is 27 and we're still having these conversations.

He shouldn't even be on our list, some of his VFL performances are down right embarrassing.

Worst defensive efforts out of any player on an AFL list.

Borrowed time, me thinks.

 

[Apex36]

I’m hoping the following…

1. We use 2 picks for a key defender and key forward.
2. We save our third pick for the yearly SSP fatal four way where Tomlinson is chosen.
3. HH is put on ice and we can get some much needed ruck/forward cover in Hayes.

Flawless Victory - Fatality - 2025.

SSP is a rookie spot which we won’t have available unless at least one of Oleg or AJ is taken as a DFA or in the rookie draft.

What you’re suggesting is impossible, we simply don’t have the list spots.

 

[Bianconeri]

That's the role he plays. He was a 20 game deep forward playing as a deep forward. It was that or ressies.

He’s a deep forward that’s needs the ball on the lead as he’s not a pack battering ram.

 

[PieBeast]

It's crazy how Ash Johnson is 27 and we're still having these conversations.

He shouldn't even be on our list, some of his VFL performances are down right embarrassing.

Worst defensive efforts out of any player on an AFL list.

Yeah but apparently someone said something nasty about him on tik tok or some other similar shit about a year ago and that justifies him going all limp while still getting paid over 300K a year....

 

[sideswipe]

SSP is a rookie spot which we won’t have available unless at least one of Oleg or AJ is taken as a DFA or in the rookie draft.

What you’re suggesting is impossible, we simply don’t have the list spots.

What about if we take two at the draft, leave a vacancy on the senior list, then if we want an SSP we promote a rookie then?


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[Vinnie Vegas]

If someone picks up AJ or Markov then sure. But we need to make 3 draft selections and everyone else has a contract.

We have to take 3 selections to the draft. There's nothing saying that one of those selections can't be used to draft Tomlinson. I don't think we're going to do that, but we could.

 

[sr36]

He’s a deep forward that’s needs the ball on the lead as he’s not a pack battering ram.

Then it's going to require a time machine to set him up for success

 

[sideswipe]

We have to take 3 selections to the draft. There's nothing saying that one of those selections can't be used to draft Tomlinson. I don't think we're going to do that, but we could.

Think we just have to have three spots available- we don’t have to use them all.


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[RobJD]

I’m hoping the following…

1. We use 2 picks for a key defender and key forward.
2. We save our third pick for the yearly SSP fatal four way where Tomlinson is chosen.
3. HH is put on ice and we can get some much needed ruck/forward cover in Hayes.

Flawless Victory - Fatality - 2025.

I'd use all three and put HH on the LTI list so there's a spot for a SSP selection if there's someone we like

 

[gouki88]

We are all-in on a shot at the 2025 Premiership but if Moore cops a significant injury, we are stuffed.

I’m not sure how we make it fit but we absolutely must recruit the best available delisted experienced key defender over the summer.


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Are there many teams who would be fine without their captain? Excluding the bottom 4, I can only think of Geelong (now that he's old), Sydney and maybe Port Adelaide.

 

[Vicky Park]

Yeah but apparently someone said something nasty about him on tik tok or some other similar shit about a year ago and that justifies him going all limp while still getting paid over 300K a year....

What happened to Ash was a lot worse than that, and from Pies fans. Not surprising he lost the desire to play footy.

I’m not justifying his poor performances, but trying to better understand them.

If even half of what I heard was true, I’m surprised he didn’t pack up and leave. Some of our more moronic fans were involved - and we have a few.

At any rate, his career is over and it would probably be best for him to be delisted. No doubt the club are trying to figure this out.

 

[sr36]

Think we just have to have three spots available- we don’t have to use them all.


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We do, but one of them can be a rookie upgrade.

It's all such bollocks. If we only want to take 2 in the draft, we will have delisted Markov to create a senior list spot and then will upgrade someone else from the rookie draft because we don't want the senior list spot and then re-draft Markov in the rookie draft...

 

[sideswipe]

What happened to Ash was a lot worse than that, and from Pies fans. Not surprising he lost the desire to play footy.

I’m not justifying his poor performances, but trying to better understand them.

If even half of what I heard was true, I’m surprised he didn’t pack up and leave. Some of our more moronic fans were involved - and we have a few.

At any rate, his career is over and it would probably be best for him to be delisted. No doubt the club are trying to figure this out.

Bit premature to call an end to his career. Club has committed to re-rookie.


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[Vicky Park]

Bit premature to call an end to his career. Club has committed to re-rookie.


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I hope his career is not over - but I can’t see it.

Is he being re-rookied because he still has a year on his contract?

 

[sr36]

I'm still not sure AJ really has what it takes at AFL-level in the modern game, even when his mind is completely in the game.

He's not big enough to be anything other than a third tall, but he kind of plays like an all-or-nothing marking option with few defensive instincts.

Agree. Despite the class, he's not good enough in a marking contest to play as a tall forward, or good enough at ground level to play as a small or medium forward. If he had greater endurance he could clear out of the forward line and stream back in, but he hasn't - as Langdon would say - he's all duck and no dinner.

 

[sr36]

I hope his career is not over - but I can’t see it.

Is he being re-rookied because he still has a year on his contract?

Almost certainly.

 

[Gone Critical]

His draft camp measurement was 199 iirc. He went to 201 the next year and 203 the year after. He definitely did grow, and he attributed his early soft tissue issues to the late growth spurt he had after being drafted.

Just for some extra trigger material:

Darcy Moore a Magpie growing up

Peter Moore had not seen Darcy for five or six weeks during the summer so when he returned home from a United States business trip he noticed something different about his son. He looked bigger somehow.

www.theage.com.au

I can’t find the article where he talked about his growth spurt and how it related to his injury issues early on but I definitely remember reading it.

Sorry in advance for taking the bait. Can't help myself. I speak in generalties and pulling together what evidence I can find about Darcy

I cant absolutely say Darcy couldnt have got a cm or 2 after he reached the club but I would also argue the articles posted are not great proof he did. The classic guys who do gain cms at 18 yo are the Cripps or Callaghans who were squeaky voiced little boys when they were U16. They stood out because almost every other kid had grown by that stage and developed typical male seconday sexual characteristic to some degree. Cripps and Callaghan and were still little boys. Between 16 and 18 they grew around 20cm. The last few cm came in the first year they spent at the club. Cripps draft height was 190, went to 195 and Callaghan 189 , went to 192.

Darcy has no such story. I did a bit of a search of articles about him when he was younger. The photo I attached was from very early Jan 2013 article by Call Toomey. Darcy was 16 years old a few weeks before he turned 17. The photo I guess was pulled up from an event in 2012 unless Pete and Darce did NYE formally. The article says Darcy was 196cm and 85 kg and the photo shows a young man well on the way to being through puberty and having a young mans body who is already almost as tall as his 198 cm Dad (although Pete may have lost a cm by this age)




Timeline odf measure I can find
2012 16 yo 196cm
2014 18 yo 199cm
2016 20 yo 201 cm Age article
2017+ 21+yo 203cm current height quote

The 1st 2 measures work. Darcy does most of his puberty height growth prior to the above photo. He gains another few cm in the next year or so as his growth spurt tails off, very typical. Callaghan and Cripps, our known late puberty kids put on their last few cm after draft day, not the usual but fits their picture perfectly as we know they are late starters. They are full height before they turn 20. Darc however gets to 20 years old, now being 201 cm, a 2cm gain in the 15 months since his draft date. Not impossible but doesnt fit that well. Then sometime in the next year or 2 he reaches 203 cm. Gaining height in your 20s when you were well through puberty when you were 16, nah.

So whats the more likely explanation. Any time we measure our height or weight its an estimate not an absolute measure. Whatever technique was used to measure Darcys height on the 4 occasions were all estimates. How much uniformity was there. Was it the same type of instrument or device. If it was the same type was it actually the same device each time. Was it done by the same person. If it was did that person use the same standardised technique of performing the measure every time etc etc etc. Even if all these are uniform, which is unlikely, its still an estimate not an absolute. There are lots of variable that will create a range of accuracy. in a 200cm measure a range between 199 and 203 is only +/- 1%. I think that would be well in the error range for this

The other factor to consider is a footy club has an incentive to go with the biggest height they get as a measure. "The Collingwood 6 footer" was coined for that very reason. As I said I cant say for sure but my bet is the different measure for Darcy was about the accuracy of the technique and the clubs incentive to publish the tallest measure they get.

As to the the growth spurt causing injuries that is idle speculation without basis. If there are any pains and difficulties with rapid growth in puberty and physical exertion they would come during the rapid growth. That occured for Darcy when he was 16 and younger. Even gaining 1 or 2 cm when you are 19 or 20 isnt going to cause any injury issues. Darcy would have just been told this by someone looking after him but it doesnt make sense and cant be proved one way or the other

Sorry, I really took a bite and this bait. Mainly did it to educate and annoy sideswipe

 

[PieBeast]

What happened to Ash was a lot worse than that, and from Pies fans. Not surprising he lost the desire to play footy.

I’m not justifying his poor performances, but trying to better understand them.

If even half of what I heard was true, I’m surprised he didn’t pack up and leave. Some of our more moronic fans were involved - and we have a few.

At any rate, his career is over and it would probably be best for him to be delisted. No doubt the club are trying to figure this out.

That's nice dear.

But I'd take a LOT worse than some interwebs abuse that would enable me to get 350K a year while I play dead.

And by the way I'm not suggesting that's what Ash did, just taking the piss of the baseless narrative perpetuated on here as a given.

 

[sr36]

Sorry in advance for taking the bait. Can't help myself. I speak in generalties and pulling together what evidence I can find about Darcy

I cant absolutely say Darcy couldnt have got a cm or 2 after he reached the club but I would also argue the articles posted are not great proof he did. The classic guys who do gain cms at 18 yo are the Cripps or Callaghans who were squeaky voiced little boys when they were U16. They stood out because almost every other kid had grown by that stage and developed typical male seconday sexual characteristic to some degree. Cripps and Callaghan and were still little boys. Between 16 and 18 they grew around 20cm. The last few cm came in the first year they spent at the club. Cripps draft height was 190, went to 195 and Callaghan 189 , went to 192.

Darcy has no such story. I did a bit of a search of articles about him when he was younger. The photo I attached was from very early Jan 2013 article by Call Toomey. Darcy was 16 years old a few weeks before he turned 17. The photo I guess was pulled up from an event in 2012 unless Pete and Darce did NYE formally. The article says Darcy was 196cm and 85 kg and the photo shows a young man well on the way to being through puberty and having a young mans body who is already almost as tall as his 198 cm Dad (although Pete may have lost a cm by this age)


View attachment 2154926

Timeline odf measure I can find
2012 16 yo 196cm
2014 18 yo 199cm
2016 20 yo 201 cm Age article
2017+ 21+yo 203cm current height quote

The 1st 2 measures work. Darcy does most of his puberty height growth prior to the above photo. He gains another few cm in the next year or so as his growth spurt tails off, very typical. Callaghan and Cripps, our known late puberty kids put on their last few cm after draft day, not the usual but fits their picture perfectly as we know they are late starters. They are full height before they turn 20. Darc however gets to 20 years old, now being 201 cm, a 2cm gain in the 15 months since his draft date. Not impossible but doesnt fit that well. Then sometime in the next year or 2 he reaches 203 cm. Gaining height in your 20s when you were well through puberty when you were 16, nah.

So whats the more likely explanation. Any time we measure our height or weight its an estimate not an absolute measure. Whatever technique was used to measure Darcys height on the 4 occasions were all estimates. How much uniformity was there. Was it the same type of instrument or device. If it was the same type was it tactually the same device each time. Was it done by the same person. If it was did that person use the same standardised technique of performing the measure every time etc etc etc. Even if all these are uniform, which is unlikely, its still an estimate not an absolute. There are lots of variable that will create a range of accuracy. in a 200cm measure a range between 199 and 203 is only +/- 1%. I think that would be well in the error range for this

The other factor to consider is a footy club has an incentive to go with the biggest height they get as a measure. "The Collingwood 6 footer" was coined for that very reason. As I said I cant say for sure but my bet is the different measure for Darcy was about the accuracy of the technique and the clubs incentive to publish the tallest measure they get.

As to the the growth spurt causing injuries that is idle speculation without basis. If there are any pains and difficulties with rapid growth in puberty and physical exertion they would come during the rapid growth. That occured for Darcy when he was 16 and younger. Even gaining 1 or 2 cm when you are 19 or 20 isnt going to cause any injury issues. Darcy would have just been told this by someone looking after him but it doesnt make sense and cant be proved one way or the other

Sorry, I really took a bite and this bait. Mainly did it to educate and annoy sideswipe

The moral of the story is that if you're an undersized tall you should fake a high pitched voice in your draft interviews.

 

[Vicky Park]

That's nice dear.

But I'd take a LOT worse than some interwebs abuse that would enable me to get 350K a year while I play dead.

And by the way I'm not suggesting that's what Ash did, just taking the piss of the baseless narrative perpetuated on here as a given.

At your patronising best.