List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade & FA 2024

[memoryofmchale]

Don't have to back anything up, if Lachy Weller can go to GC for pick 2 then there are all sorts or probabilities. You attaching iron clad values to players I'm finding amusing, you can guess but you wouldn't know, that's what I'm saying, it's just the truth.

You sort of do because at the moment, your evidence is an anomaly, not conclusive, large-scale data. It gives no validity to your argument, if there was any in the first place.

You'd have to find an exceptionally dumb club to trade a pick that high for Macrae or McInnes. Macrae and McInnes would be very unlikely to have a value of more than a third rounder. Dylan Stephens, a player from the same class, had 43 games to his name, which is double the amount of Macrae and McInnes.

Stephens and Pick 25 for R1 2024 (compensation) and Pick 44.

So it worked out to be a value of Pick 44 give or take a little for Stephens.

 

[memoryofmchale]

Makes you wonder what our recruiting team saw in them given they were taken in 1st round. Now 4 years of development and only worth 3rd round

That's the reality for a lot of players, though. Their development was impacted by COVID and also by a lack of opportunity players at other clubs had. Macrae's 2021 season looked very promising and his 2022 and 2023 form was strong. There's still plenty of time for him to change his value. Not worrying too much.

 

[Scodog10]

Makes you wonder what our recruiting team saw in them given they were taken in 1st round. Now 4 years of development and only worth 3rd round

I may be very dismissive of Carl’s nonsense, but I would pump the breaks on this type of talk.

Their value 4 years later doesn’t have any baring on the quality of the initial talent ID during Covid. That period in time will reflect poorly on many a good recruiter and it’ll probably go down as one of Hine’s best draft periods with Henry, McReery and Ginnivan definite 100+ gamers plus Macrae, Reef and Poulter 50+ game chances (it’s definitely his best since 2014).

It’s also current value because whilst I’m not expecting it I’m also not ruling out a spike in performance.

 

[No SPIN]

you could say that of every 30 year old, including Buddy who went on for what, 6 more years , and far more banged up than Mitch, Fletcher as full back would be same .. could go on with many more examples ( Fyfe is a good one Yeo another) but writing off a 30 year old because of some perceived view he is banged up is not sound thinking.

Getting smashed in and under packs in every game is a little different to Fletcher and Buddy.
Yeo has missed a lot of football and was constantly injured as has Fyfe recently - the inside mids cop a lot of punishment.

 

[sr36]

The old I feel threatened because I'm not as sure as I thought I was. When they're regulars and playing good footy all will be revealed. This desire for every player to be a Nick Daicos and play great straight away from people like yourself is why some people get player values and draft picks so wrong. If you think Reef and Finn aren't worth much just because they're plying their trade in the VFL you would be wrong. The same people thought we should dump Murph for nothing after his first 3 years, they just don't get development. Fly has said Finn is an important part of the future and then some bigfooty posters think he's worth giving away, I think I'll stick with Fly on this one, he's got a cup to prove it.

For every bloke like Murphy who kicks on after being on the fringe for 4 years, there's a lot who don't make it. The odds would be pretty similar to picks after 50.

 

[Scodog10]

His biological age is 30 - but with the punishment his body gets every week I can’t share your confidence in his longevity.
But hopefully Wade is the architect of extending his career.

You can see it. The best of Mitchell is as good as ever, but the baseline is dropping away even 12 months into his time at the club an average day for him is down on what it was. I’m also not sure we’re getting the best as often. He’ll get through 2024 and might make it part of the way through 2025, but Wade will have to be Dumbledore to get him through all of 2025 at the current rate of decline.

 

[sr36]

you could say that of every 30 year old, including Buddy who went on for what, 6 more years , and far more banged up than Mitch, Fletcher as full back would be same .. could go on with many more examples ( Fyfe is a good one Yeo another) but writing off a 30 year old because of some perceived view he is banged up is not sound thinking.

For me it's not that he's banged up. It's that he's slow and lacks power compared to who he's competing against and he plays a role where power matters. Hes good enough to get away with his physical shortcomings, but he can't afford them to drop.

Comparisons to Buddy are silly as Buddy was off the charts physically, he could lose a lot of awesomeness and be above average physically. Comparisons to Pendles are silly, as he's never played a style that has relied on physicality. Mitchell is crashing in to contests and needs to be able to compete physically to offer value to his team. He doesn't have the skills to cruise around like Pendles.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Nah Weitering is a good player but not a #1 generational talent. Hasn't even been AA yet. Plenty of players better than him in that draft including Clayton Oliver, Curnow, McKay, Mills etc.

You realise there is a draft every year and therefore a #1 every year, and a generation is approximately 25 years, right?

 

[memoryofmchale]

You realise there is a draft every year and therefore a #1 every year, and a generation is approximately 25 years, right?

Pfttt. This board expects a generational talent every six months and for multiple to be landed in the one class.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Pfttt. This board expects a generational talent every six months and for multiple to be landed in the one class.

He’s not wrong that “better” players came out of that draft, but the #1 pick is no guarantee of being the best in their draft. They’re meant to be the biggest“can’t miss” prospect and a likely 200-gamer, and Weitering is a difference maker in potentially the most valuable position in football (intercepting key defender) at the moment in a top four side. Unquestionably a worthy #1 pick.

 

[Ugene41]

You realise there is a draft every year and therefore a #1 every year, and a generation is approximately 25 years, right?

All I'm saying is that if I had the #1 pick the last few years, I wouldn't trade it for Weitering. I would for a Naicos, Walsh, Sheezel though. Weitering isn't a rare enough talent nor even the best player in his draft to be truly worthy of the #1 pick with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Ugene41]

He’s not wrong that “better” players came out of that draft, but the #1 pick is no guarantee of being the best in their draft. They’re meant to be the biggest“can’t miss” prospect and a likely 200-gamer, and Weitering is a difference maker in potentially the most valuable position in football (intercepting key defender) at the moment in a top four side. Unquestionably a worthy #1 pick.

I'd actually argue intercepting key defenders are types where late picks have had a higher success rate of unearthing e.g. Harris Andrews, Aliir Aliir, Dylan Grimes, Jeremy McGovern, Sicily, Tom Stewart etc.

 

[Carlthetruth]

I may be very dismissive of Carl’s nonsense, but I would pump the breaks on this type of talk.

Their value 4 years later doesn’t have any baring on the quality of the initial talent ID during Covid. That period in time will reflect poorly on many a good recruiter and it’ll probably go down as one of Hine’s best draft periods with Henry, McReery and Ginnivan definite 100+ gamers plus Macrae, Reef and Poulter 50+ game chances (it’s definitely his best since 2014).

It’s also current value because whilst I’m not expecting it I’m also not ruling out a spike in performance.

I'd be more concerned with your assertion that Paddy Dow is better than Finn and Reef, your comments not mine. Paddy has a slight problem in that he sprays his kicks everywhere which I'm quite sure you haven't noticed, now that's some real nonsense!

 

[Gone Critical]

We got this bloke called Bobby Hill after 4 years of being in and out of the Giants side for a second round pick, worked out quite well.

Nah . Booby Hill was following the trajectory good AFL players do. Also was doing very AFL things in matches. Seasons 1-4 at GWS he played 8, 5, 17 then 11 games. In 2022 the 11 games were the 1st 11 rounds of the season, he then got his cancer diaggnosis. In 2021 he played the 1st 17 games before leaving the AFL covid hub to be with his pregnant wife. He was locked into the 22 after 2 years.

Playing 40 games in your 1st 4 seasons is good especially given it would have been around 50 without illness/going home. Thats what top players do. His career in its 1st 4 years is poles apart from Fin/Reef

 

[Gone Critical]

GWS have the best group of small forwards in league. Bobby would be struggling for a game up there

No he was a permanent member of their team in 2021 and 22 except for going home to his pregnant wife in covid and getting cancer

 

[Gone Critical]

He selected Essendon in 2021 but Dodo didn't want to pay up. So Dodo missed out.

No Essendon offered a future 2nd. Hill was contracted and GWS refused to trade.

 

[Scodog10]

I'd be more concerned with your assertion that Paddy Dow is better than Finn and Reef, your comments not mine. Paddy has a slight problem in that he sprays his kicks everywhere which I'm quite sure you haven't noticed, now that's some real nonsense!

I agree he’s pretty meh, but he’s still better than McInnes and Macrae at both levels

Despite your starry eyed sky that’s the reality of the current situation. They’re just not that good.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

We got this bloke called Bobby Hill after 4 years of being in and out of the Giants side for a second round pick, worked out quite well.

We have had plenty of 2nd round trades that haven't worked out.
Sam Murray is a fairly recent one.
Just got to target the right players. The picks are less important.

Moyle, Smith and McCluggage would be the guys I would target this year. We might not get any of them but those are the sort of players that would immediately impact.

 

[sr36]

He’s not wrong that “better” players came out of that draft, but the #1 pick is no guarantee of being the best in their draft. They’re meant to be the biggest“can’t miss” prospect and a likely 200-gamer, and Weitering is a difference maker in potentially the most valuable position in football (intercepting key defender) at the moment in a top four side. Unquestionably a worthy #1 pick.

Curnow and Clarry are probably better players, but I don't know if they're more important players.

The talk that year was that Weitering and Schache were the standouts. Many thought they should have taken Schache - kpf and all.

 

[Harry O]

We were lucky to get him, lots of sliding door moments but I’m so happy he landed with us a big part of putting the puzzle together last year.

We have seen his best is pretty special, GWS would love to have him. IMHO.

Andy McGrath would enjoy playing on him each week

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

His biological age is 30 - but with the punishment his body gets every week I can’t share your confidence in his longevity.
But hopefully Wade is the architect of extending his career.

We now know he has had foot soreness. That may explain a bit....

 

[Carlthetruth]

Nah . Booby Hill was following the trajectory good AFL players do. Also was doing very AFL things in matches. Seasons 1-4 at GWS he played 8, 5, 17 then 11 games. In 2022 the 11 games were the 1st 11 rounds of the season, he then got his cancer diaggnosis. In 2021 he played the 1st 17 games before leaving the AFL covid hub to be with his pregnant wife. He was locked into the 22 after 2 years.

Playing 40 games in your 1st 4 seasons is good especially given it would have been around 50 without illness/going home. Thats what top players do. His career in its 1st 4 years is poles apart from Fin/Reef

Playing 40 games out of 90+ is in and out of the side, Nick Daicos 54 out of 58 is more your regular senior footy, just maths, just the truth.

 

[sr36]

Playing 40 games out of 90+ is in and out of the side, Nick Daicos 54 out of 58 is more your regular senior footy, just maths, just the truth.

Under that rationale, Murphy was never a regular senior player for us.

Hill played seniors in 28 of the last 28 he was available for for GWS... But just as significantly he had crystal clear standout attributes for his AFL role. Macrae doesn't and we still don't know what Reef's role will be if he does become a good senior player

 

[stormskye]

How are we still going on about this . Macrae have reef have absolutely 0 trade value. None.

 

[Carlthetruth]

How are we still going on about this . Macrae have reef have absolutely 0 trade value. None.

They're not up for trade so they have no trade value, there, fixed it for you.