Collingwood's Rolling Best 22

[Ugene41]

Jesse White isn't a great mark but dropping off and taking intercept marks is poles apart from taking contested marks as a forward

That's the thing though, I don't expect our game plan to rely on our CHF to take contested marks. Instead it seems like we'd like to structure up our forward line similar to Hawks/Dogs with mobile lead up forwards who can make space, take uncontested marks and then spot up spare targets up forward. We seem to want to move away from the traditional CHF types like Cloke which means someone like Scharenberg might be the prototype kind of CHF we're looking for. The fact he's played CHF as a junior means he's not exactly lost in the forward line.

Just think it would be worth trying to turn a key defender into a key forward given our lack of KPP forward depth rather than turning all our forwards into backmen ie Reid, Howe, Marsh etc.

 

[mike123]

I, like many others, did critique your opinion as Smith as nothing more than a plodder.

But then you give up that your opinion is not worth considering, as you have deliberately cracked the sads and will be negative until we win again.

What a sh1t attitude, and an opinion not worth reading.

Floreat Pica.

LOL the only ones who've cracked the sads are you and MrStealYourGirl because I don't rate Smith and our trade period.

 

[Seedsfan]

That's the thing though, I don't expect our game plan to rely on our CHF to take contested marks. Instead it seems like we'd like to structure up our forward line similar to Hawks/Dogs with mobile lead up forwards who can make space, take uncontested marks and then spot up spare targets up forward. We seem to want to move away from the traditional CHF types like Cloke which means someone like Scharenberg might be the prototype kind of CHF we're looking for. The fact he's played CHF as a junior means he's not exactly lost in the forward line.

Just think it would be worth trying to turn a key defender into a key forward given our lack of KPP forward depth rather than turning all our forwards into backmen ie Reid, Howe, Marsh etc.

But Shaz isn't even a key defender, Hawthorns forward line struggled this year with out a tall target down there and until Roughead and Boyd started marking them for the Dogs they didn't look much better

 

[Countrypie]

I've got:


Overall it's a list downgrade and a weakened best 22. But we have what we have.

I respect your analysis greatly and assume you believe it's a weakened 22 due to the absence of Swan, Cloke and possibly Williams (whom you rate much higher than I do)

If so given Cloke's inability to play anywhere near his best for the past 2 seasons could it be that in actual fact the best 22 is stronger in real terms rather than previous exposed form.

Swan, for all intents and purposes has been off our list for 6 months and Wells has to be seen as an addition not a replacement.

In relation to the list downgrade, I was of that opinion initially but having thought it through, many of the de-listed players were only going to be depth at best with little hope of getting better.

Frost, Toovey, McCaffer and probably Brown fall into this category. Marley, I doubt will ever reach his potential. These guys were taking up list spots.

Thoughts?

 

[Silky]

Only Pendlebury, Reid, Sidebottom and Goldsack left from the 2010 premiership

Daicos and Brown left from 1990.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ugene41]

But Shaz isn't even a key defender, Hawthorns forward line struggled this year with out a tall target down there and until Roughead and Boyd started marking them for the Dogs they didn't look much better

We do have our tall target in Moore already. Not asking Scharenberg to replace Moore but to replace Cloke who's shown that he's type of playing style is too slow and immobile for the modern day CHF. Scharenberg is pretty much the same height and weight as Adelaide's Tom Lynch, Jack Gunston, Jack Darling etc - all forwards who are considered KPP and effectively play as the team's roaming CHF. There's also no reason he can't be a KPP defender considering Sydney's key defenders in the grand final were Rampe, Laidler and Grundy - all players who are 189cm-192cm.

Just think that it would be better developing Scharenberg as a key position prospect (ideally forward where we lack more talent) than as flanker. He has the height and size to do it. Given his knees it's probably also easier getting him stronger so he can match up better on the stronger KPP whilst still having a mobility advantage vs trying to get him faster to match up well against the slippery flankers.

 

[Jelly Bean]

We do have our tall target in Moore already. Not asking Scharenberg to replace Moore but to replace Cloke who's shown that he's type of playing style is too slow and immobile for the modern day CHF. Scharenberg is pretty much the same height and weight as Adelaide's Tom Lynch, Jack Gunston, Jack Darling etc - all forwards who are considered KPP and effectively play as the team's roaming CHF. There's also no reason he can't be a KPP defender considering Sydney's key defenders in the grand final were Rampe, Laidler and Grundy - all players who are 189cm-192cm.

Just think that it would be better developing Scharenberg as a key position prospect (ideally forward where we lack more talent) than as flanker. He has the height and size to do it. Given his knees it's probably also easier getting him stronger so he can match up better on the stronger KPP whilst still having a mobility advantage vs trying to get him faster to match up well against the slippery flankers.

Scharenberg isn't going to be a key position player - we would be wasting a talent who could be a high level intercepting / rebounding defender if we try to turn him into a CHB / FB...

We are okay for key backs at the moment. We have Reid, Keefe, Dunn, Marsh (who didn't end up leaving), and if we needed to White, who actually showed a bit down back. Moore can also play back if there was an injury in-game and we needed to swing someone back.

Better to have Scharenberg and Howe playing as high level intercept marking players who can offer offence with their footskills, and hopefully a little bit of run when Scharenberg restores his confidence. I'd like to think Scharenberg could play a role similar to what Shaw was playing for us, albeit a little taller.

 

[Fruit]

I respect your analysis greatly and assume you believe it's a weakened 22 due to the absence of Swan, Cloke and possibly Williams (whom you rate much higher than I do)

If so given Cloke's inability to play anywhere near his best for the past 2 seasons could it be that in actual fact the best 22 is stronger in real terms rather than previous exposed form.

Swan, for all intents and purposes has been off our list for 6 months and Wells has to be seen as an addition not a replacement.

In relation to the list downgrade, I was of that opinion initially but having thought it through, many of the de-listed players were only going to be depth at best with little hope of getting better.

Frost, Toovey, McCaffer and probably Brown fall into this category. Marley, I doubt will ever reach his potential. These guys were taking up list spots.

Thoughts?

Spot on. If we only base it on last season and not the glory years we have taken a small step forward. Dunn FB is potentially a huge asset with disposal out of back 50. Maybe Jeremy Howe goes out to a wing where he was first ear marked. Daniel wells on the other wing is huge if he plays to the same form he had this year. That moves Sidebottom forward along with the returning Elliott and Fasolo. If Mayne can be released like his manager suggested (he said Ross Lyon used him poorly) then we have a potent small forward line similar to the Bulldogs. WHE rotates through forward and wing which also adds to our versatility.

 

[DaVe86]

I've had a think over night and have brought Dunn into the starting 22 at the expense of Langdon.

The side lacked a full back, and I don't trust either of Goldsack or Langdon for that role. I see them more as 3rd defender types. So Dunn gets in my default really...although may be pushed out if Keeffe has a strong pre-season.

I reckon we may actually persist with Keeffe as a forward though as there is not a lot of depth in that area either.

Langdon drops out because he isn't as good a kick or tackler as Goldsack. He is probably a better one on one defender and intercept mark, but we have Dunn, Howe and Reid for those roles. I think Goldsack offers a bit more flexibility than Langdon.

Clearly the emphasis is on footskills, and Langdon has question marks in this area.

 

[ride56]

Collingwood after trade period:

B. Scharenberg ~ Keeffe ~ Ramsay
HB. Maynard ~ Reid ~ Howe
C. Adams ~ Treloar ~ Sidebottom
HF. Wells ~ Moore ~ Mayne
F. Elliot ~ Cox ~ Fasolo
R. Grundy ~ Pendlebury (c) ~ De Goey
I. Crisp ~ Varcoe ~ Aish ~ Hoskin-Elliot
C. Buckley

E. White, Langdon, Broomhead


Extra: Phillips, Greenwood, Sinclair, Dunn, Crocker, Smith, Wills, Goldsack

Or Magpie magoos

B. Thomas ~ Dunn ~ Smith
HB. Sinclair ~ Goldsack ~ Langdon
C. Phillips ~ Blair ~ Oxley
HF. Broomhead ~ White ~ Crocker
F. Daicos* ~ Draft ~ Brown*
R. Draft ~ Wills ~ Greenwood
I. Sier ~ draft ~ draft ~ draft

Surely Elliott won't be back for quite a while, excuse the pun, and Greenwood is in? He's got forward and midfield covered and Varcoe can interchange to cover just about anywhere. I'm a Goldsack lover too so would back him over Langdon especially given his forward and pressure credentials but I know not everyone agrees.

 

[surfer1]

After trade period.

Maynard Dunn Goldsack

Shazz Reid Adams

Howe Sidebottom Wells

Mayne Moore WHE

Elliott Keeffe Faz

Grundy Pendles Treloar

I/c DeGoey, Aish, Crisp Varcoe

Emg White, Ramsay Broomhead

obvioulsy big question marks over Shazz, Elliott, Ramsay and Faz

 

[Heritier 09]

Likely for Rnd 1.

Sinclair, Keeffe, Maynard
Howe, Reid, Goldsack
Wells, Adams, Sidey
WHE, White, Goo
Elliot, Moore, Mayne
Grundy, Pendles, AT

Varcoe, Aish, Crisp, Smith

Bucks will be keen as mustard to get Ramma and Shaz in the mix, likely at the expense of Smith and perhaps Goldy or Sinclair. I would keep Goldy in for flexibility.

Keeffe will get first crack, and Dunn will provide decent back up. Must hit at least one KPD in the draft.

I couldn't leave Elliot out after this year. Hoping against hope that his preseason is strong. Failing that, perhaps one of Brown and Daicos impress immediately, or Blair assumes the position once more. Fingers crossed for Billy.

I'd love to see Broomy push past Crisp. They're different players but broomy's class will be massive if we can start to muscle a few clearances out of De Goey and TA.

Wills, Greenwood, Langdon, Cox, Dunn, Crocker, Phillips, Blair, Ramma and Shaz provide good depth. And it remains to be seen what happens to Marsh. I really rate him though, especially with the way footy is headed.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Surely Elliott won't be back for quite a while, excuse the pun, and Greenwood is in? He's got forward and midfield covered and Varcoe can interchange to cover just about anywhere. I'm a Goldsack lover too so would back him over Langdon especially given his forward and pressure credentials but I know not everyone agrees.

All good points

 

[Lethal06]

Our list has been undoubtedly improved this off-season.

In Cloke, Toovey, Macaffer, N.Brown, Frost, Williams, Gault and Goodyear we have lost EIGHT list-cloggers who are all (to varying degrees) has-beens, dead-weights or ball-butchers. We won't miss them at all. (I live in hope that Blair will be added to the list of departures).

In their place, we have added a better-kicking full-back option (Dunn), two proven AFL-level best-22 performers (Mayne and Wells) and three kids with great upside in Hoskin-Elliott, Daicos and C.Brown. Add to that the hopeful return of Scharenberg and Elliott and we're going to have a fast, skillful and fun team to watch in 2017.

Yes, we need an extra ruckman as a fall-back but we can get a Minson or similar delisted free-agent cheaply. Its not the crisis some are making out.

Importantly, guys who were automatic best-22 picks in 2016 such as Blair, Greenwood, Crisp, Varcoe, Langdon, Maynard, DeGoey & Smith will all be battling for a start in 2017. That's clear evidence that the squad is stronger. Increased internal competition for spots will make us stronger and hungrier. Go Pies!

 

[Shaneprice97]

With Dunn, Reid and Howe as the tall defenders, our backline is very rebound orientated, if only Dunn was 3 years younger, or i hope that we have a crack at Steven May.

Add Ramsay, Perhaps Sinclair and Adams, or perhaps Scharenberg and Langdon, either way i can imagine we will be clearing it from the backline much easier than that dreaded 2014-2015 full lockdown like defense.

Side note, i like the trust the club has in Ramsay, i think they have high expectations for the kid, genuinely think hes the 3rd best half back on our list behind Adams and Howe.

 

[Unknown Identity]

B: Langdon - Reid - Maynard
HB: Howe - Dunn - Ramsay/Sinclair
C: Wells - Adams - Sidebottom
HF: Varcoe - White - Mayne
F: Fasolo - Moore - Elliott
R: Grundy - Pendlebury - Treloar

INT: Aish - Hoskin-Elliott - DeGoey - Crisp

Depth: Smith - Scharenberg - Greenwood - Goldsack - Keefe - Blair - Cox - Broomhead - Oxley - Wills - Thomas - Sier - Phillips - Crocker

We need some speed in the back 6 so HB role will be Ramsay if fit, otherwise Sinclair.
Scharenberg will most likely come in by Round 5-6. Greenwood unlucky and pains me to leave him out, liked his work playing forward.
Crocker is going to find it extremely difficult to get a game unless there are injuries (which lets face it, are inevitable)

 

[Rusty22]

dawes just got delisted, good decision from us to give him away.

 

[Countrypie]

B: Langdon - Reid - Maynard
HB: Howe - Dunn - Ramsay/Sinclair
C: Wells - Adams - Sidebottom
HF: Varcoe - White - Mayne
F: Fasolo - Moore - Elliott
R: Grundy - Pendlebury - Treloar

INT: Aish - Hoskin-Elliott - Crisp - Smith

Depth: Scharenberg - Greenwood - Goldsack - Keefe - Blair - Cox - Broomhead - Oxley - Wills - Thomas - Sier - Phillips - Crocker

We need some speed in the back 6 so HB role will be Ramsay if fit, otherwise Sinclair.
Scharenberg will most likely come in by Round 5-6. Greenwood unlucky and pains me to leave him out, liked his work playing forward.
Crocker is going to find it extremely difficult to get a game unless there are injuries (which lets face it, are inevitable)

You would expect that with that forward line the ball won't come out of there as quick as it did last season

 

[nahnah]

B: Langdon - Reid - Maynard
HB: Howe - Dunn - Ramsay/Sinclair
C: Wells - Adams - Sidebottom
HF: Varcoe - White - Mayne
F: Fasolo - Moore - Elliott
R: Grundy - Pendlebury - Treloar

INT: Aish - Hoskin-Elliott - Crisp - Smith

Depth: Scharenberg - Greenwood - Goldsack - Keefe - Blair - Cox - Broomhead - Oxley - Wills - Thomas - Sier - Phillips - Crocker

We need some speed in the back 6 so HB role will be Ramsay if fit, otherwise Sinclair.
Scharenberg will most likely come in by Round 5-6. Greenwood unlucky and pains me to leave him out, liked his work playing forward.
Crocker is going to find it extremely difficult to get a game unless there are injuries (which lets face it, are inevitable)

Agree with everything but you left out Degoey

 

[Unknown Identity]

Agree with everything but you left out Degoey

Didn't we trade him? Haha..

Who the **** do I take out.

 

[Unknown Identity]

You would expect that with that forward line the ball won't come out of there as quick as it did last season

That's what Bucks wants and I think we'll see some forward 50 tackle records broken.

 

[Presti_is_god]

Didn't we trade him? Haha..

Who the **** do I take out.

Smith?

 

[nahnah]

Didn't we trade him? Haha..

Who the **** do I take out.

Smith or Langdon for me

 

[Lethal06]

Didn't we trade him? Haha..

Who the **** do I take out.

That's a great sign that our list has improved.

 

[Lethal06]

Here is the winning answer:


FB Maynard Dunn Ramsay

HB Howe Reid Crisp

C Wells Treloar Hoskin-Elliott

HF Fasolo White Sidebottom

FF Mayne Moore Elliott

R Grundy Pendles Adams

INT Aish Varcoe DeGoey Scharenberg

DEPTH Greenwood Cox Langdon Goldsack Smith Sinclair Blair Broomhead Oxley Keeffe Wills Crocker J.Thomas Seir Daicos C.Brown