Collingwood's Rolling Best 22

[Saintly Viewed]

This is very good however Wells really needs to be played on the wing and Adams really isn't a winger

You raise good points there, it's funny with football.
I love placing the teams in position specific yet in reality eg Adams is part of the larger follower middle group.
Almost a rolling maul.

 

[Countrypie]

Are depth was far better for talls last year

Last year we had Key backs of Reid, Brown & Frost
We also has 3rd man up types like Marsh, Goldsack and Howe
This year we will have Reid, Keeffe & Dunn - as a group this looks just as good as last year
3rd man up types stll have Goldsack and Howe. Scharenberg may also be able to play this role.

Yes we lose WItts, but there's still time to pick up an emergency Will Minson type to cover all contingincies. It's obvious that the club rates Cox more than many supporters do.

Up forward we've lost Cloke. I'm not losing any sleep over that. The Cloke of 2016 was VFL standard. I don;t expect that to change. It's also obvuious tha the club is committed to laying a smaller forward line i.e 2 Talls and 4 smalls as opposed 3 & 3 that we used for the first half of the year. This appears to be a trend across the league, as teams opt for 3rd tall types in defense to spoil and run off larger opponents causing coaches to go smaller and put more pressure on the ball carrier.

 

[doodles98]

Hoskin-Elliot is well ahead of De Goey as a half forward. If you want De Goey you must play him at the centre bounce. Both should be in best 22.

Lol.. Scharenberg is a walk up start... now Hoskin-Elliot is ahead of Degoey as a half forward (2 goals in 13 matches last 2 years for WHE); We MUST play Degoey at the centre bounce and both SHOULD be in the best 22. Lol.. I see what you're doing here.. very funny

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Last year we had Key backs of Reid, Brown & Frost
We also has 3rd man up types like Marsh, Goldsack and Howe
This year we will have Reid, Keeffe & Dunn - as a group this looks just as good as last year
3rd man up types stll have Goldsack and Howe. Scharenberg may also be able to play this role.

Yes we lose WItts, but there's still time to pick up an emergency Will Minson type to cover all contingincies. It's obvious that the club rates Cox more than many supporters do.

Up forward we've lost Cloke. I'm not losing any sleep over that. The Cloke of 2016 was VFL standard. I don;t expect that to change. It's also obvuious tha the club is committed to laying a smaller forward line i.e 2 Talls and 4 smalls as opposed 3 & 3 that we used for the first half of the year. This appears to be a trend across the league, as teams opt for 3rd tall types in defense to spoil and run off larger opponents causing coaches to go smaller and put more pressure on the ball carrier.

Nicely put.
I do see Dunn as our depth cover.
That puts the onus on Keeffe, if (and it's a big if) he can get his gear together he could be a great asset for us. Has wonderful height. But I've always liked him so happy to chance on him

 

[Countrypie]

Nicely put.
I do see Dunn as our depth cover.
That puts the onus on Keeffe, if (and it's a big if) he can get his gear together he could be a great asset for us. Has wonderful height. But I've always liked him so happy to chance on him

Unfortunate turn of phrase.
I agree although I see Dunn as starting in Round one until Keeffe gets up to speed

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Unfortunate turn of phrase.
I agree although I see Dunn as starting in Round one until Keeffe gets up to speed

He he he.
And if Keeffe gets there and plays well it will be with a degree of ecstasy I will post, Keeffe you're back full time.

 

[Prochard123]

Lol.. Scharenberg is a walk up start... now Hoskin-Elliot is ahead of Degoey as a half forward (2 goals in 13 matches last 2 years for WHE); We MUST play Degoey at the centre bounce and both SHOULD be in the best 22. Lol.. I see what you're doing here.. very funny

And yes you still haven't given any half decent reasoning to why you don't agree. I see this as a sign of incompetency.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

My teams - AFL (VFL):

Backline:
Langdon - Goldsack - Sinclair
(Ramsay - Dunn - Maynard)
Our weakest line. Langdon on form is better than a Ramsay or Maynard but he last played prior to his injury as a intercept marking 3rd tall that Howe played so well. Can he re-adapt his game to be a shutdown back pocket, like Alan Toovey? I have some question marks on his speed so Ramsay might take this position. At full back, I have opted for Goldsack over Dunn but truth be told, I see them very similar players that will both have trouble with strong full fowards like Tom Hawkins. So it is really horses for courses. Keeffe is another who could play full back but after 2 years away, he will certainly start in the VFL. Sinclair is one of Bucks pets that is pretty much first choice if fit. He does come with a troubling injury history especially lately regarding concussions. Maynard is a capable deputy if Sinclair can't get on the park.

Half Backline:
Howe - Reid - Smith
(Scharenberg - Keeffe - Marsh)
I think the AFL line is clear cut. Reid is one of the best CHB in the league. Howe had a very good season in defence and Josh Smith was a revelation off the rookie list. Scharenberg just needs a block of games without injury. I'll be OK if he spent the entire year in VFL. Keeffe needs to prove himself after his drug suspension. I think he would only be an AFL option in the 2nd half of the year. Marsh is the other VFL half back but I expect him to be delisted due to his desire to return to WA. So potentially we may need to look to the draft or at a delisted free agent to replace him.

Centre line:
Wells - Adams - Sidebottom
(Phillips - Thomas - Hoskin-Elliott)
The recruitment of Wells pushes Aish out of a starting wing spot. Adams is the starting centreman unless Bucks wants to play a run with player whereby Greenwood comes in and Adams may then be pushed to half back. Sidebottom is one of the best wingman in the league and I don't see why he should be pushed forward to accomodate Aish or Crisp. The VFL wingers have great upside. Phillips could be a Sidebottom clone. He has the endurance and gut running, all he need is to find the ball and develop his skills. Hoskin-Elliott is a potential x-factor. Can he get on the park and become a goal kicking wingman like a prime Alan Didak. Thomas has plenty to prove after his drug suspension but he has proven in the past he can find the ball.

Half forward line:
Fasolo - White - Varcoe
(Broomhead - Gault - Brown*)
With the return of Jamie Elliott, I can see Fasolo being pushed further forward as a half forward. White is our CHF and relief ruckman for Grundy. He has some competition from Mason Cox but should still hold his spot as Cox still has a lot to learn. Varcoe provides some polish on the other half forward flank. At VFL, Gault is likely to be delisted with rumours he has signed for Swan Districts. So a new VFL CHF is required. Broomhead need some consistency on the park after numerous setbacks with injuries and illness. At the members forum, it appears he is now rated as a specialist forward rather than a midfield / wing option. Potential father-son selection Callum Brown will probably start his career as a half forward due to his slight frame. Hopefully he develops his body and becomes a winger like his father, one of the best wingers I have ever seen.

Forwardline:
Elliott - Moore - Mayne
(Blair - Oxley - Crocker)
The return of Jamie Elliott should be a welcome boost to the teams goalkicking woes. Hopefully he can get his back right and can play 22 games. The departure of Travis Cloke means that Darcy Moore becomes the main man despite his slender frame. He needs a big offseason in the gym to get stronger as he will be dealing with opposition no. 1 defenders and also getting double team. New recruit Chris Mayne should replace Jarryd Blair's spot as the teams new defensive forward applying tackling and pressure. Hopefully he can kick some goals too. At VFL, Oxley is the default FF due to be trialled late last season as a lead up forward. But the truth is we just don't have a VFL full forward. So hopefully pick 28 will be that player. There is a good chance that Blair may still be an AFL player off the bench because he is a favourite of Bucks but I have picked him to start in the VFL after the recruitment of Mayne. The other forward pocket is Ben Crocker who showed some very good goal sense that earnt him a few AFL games last season.

Followers:
Grundy - Pendlebury - Treloar
(Cox - Sier - Wills)
The AFL trio is one of the best in the league but the VFL trio is probably one of the worst in the VFL. I won't comment on the AFL trio because we know how good they are. In the VFL, Cox had a good season of development breaking through and playing a few AFL games up foward with the struggles of Cloke. He needs to continue his development and he will get more opportunity to work on his ruck craft as I expect him to be the teams no. 1 ruckman at VFL. Sier had a trying season whereby he didn't play much due to injury and when he did play, he didn't impress. He was recruited as a big bodied midfielder so Collingwood should persist and play him there in his 2nd season. Wills had a good first season at the club and impressed with his tackling skills which earnt him some AFL games.

Bench:
De Goey - Aish - Greenwood - Crisp
(Daicos* - ????? - ????? - ?????)
All midfielders on the AFL bench as I suspect we will probably play a bit smaller this year after Cloke's departure. I think out of the bench options Greenwood will play in the centres as he is still effective as a run with player. Aish showed great improvement on the wing and will probably rotate there with Wells and Sidebottom. For Crisp, I think he might need to play more off half back next season and rotate with Sinclair and Smith. For De Goey I think he rotates with the half forwards, swapping with Fasolo and Varcoe. Only potential father-son pick Josh Daicos listed as a VFL bench option thus far, we shall see who is drafted that fills the rest of the spots.

 

[Geelong_Bisons_#36]

Back 6:
Talls - Reid, Howe, Keefe OR Goldsack
Smalls - Maynard, Sinclair, Langdon

Mid 6:
Grundy, Sidebottom, Adams, Treloar, Wells, Pendles

Fwd 6:
Talls: Moore, White OR Cox
Small/Medium: Fasolo, Elliot, Mayne

Interchange: Degoey, Smith, Crisp + Aish

 

[Countrypie]

My teams - AFL (VFL):

Backline:
Langdon - Goldsack - Sinclair
(Ramsay - Dunn - Maynard)
Our weakest line. Langdon on form is better than a Ramsay or Maynard but he last played prior to his injury as a intercept marking 3rd tall that Howe played so well. Can he re-adapt his game to be a shutdown back pocket, like Alan Toovey? I have some question marks on his speed so Ramsay might take this position. At full back, I have opted for Goldsack over Dunn but truth be told, I see them very similar players that will both have trouble with strong full fowards like Tom Hawkins. So it is really horses for courses. Keeffe is another who could play full back but after 2 years away, he will certainly start in the VFL. Sinclair is one of Bucks pets that is pretty much first choice if fit. He does come with a troubling injury history especially lately regarding concussions. Maynard is a capable deputy if Sinclair can't get on the park.

Half Backline:
Howe - Reid - Smith
(Scharenberg - Keeffe - Marsh)
I think the AFL line is clear cut. Reid is one of the best CHB in the league. Howe had a very good season in defence and Josh Smith was a revelation off the rookie list. Scharenberg just needs a block of games without injury. I'll be OK if he spent the entire year in VFL. Keeffe needs to prove himself after his drug suspension. I think he would only be an AFL option in the 2nd half of the year. Marsh is the other VFL half back but I expect him to be delisted due to his desire to return to WA. So potentially we may need to look to the draft or at a delisted free agent to replace him.

Centre line:
Wells - Adams - Sidebottom
(Phillips - Thomas - Hoskin-Elliott)
The recruitment of Wells pushes Aish out of a starting wing spot. Adams is the starting centreman unless Bucks wants to play a run with player whereby Greenwood comes in and Adams may then be pushed to half back. Sidebottom is one of the best wingman in the league and I don't see why he should be pushed forward to accomodate Aish or Crisp. The VFL wingers have great upside. Phillips could be a Sidebottom clone. He has the endurance and gut running, all he need is to find the ball and develop his skills. Hoskin-Elliott is a potential x-factor. Can he get on the park and become a goal kicking wingman like a prime Alan Didak. Thomas has plenty to prove after his drug suspension but he has proven in the past he can find the ball.

Half forward line:
Fasolo - White - Varcoe
(Broomhead - Gault - Brown*)
With the return of Jamie Elliott, I can see Fasolo being pushed further forward as a half forward. White is our CHF and relief ruckman for Grundy. He has some competition from Mason Cox but should still hold his spot as Cox still has a lot to learn. Varcoe provides some polish on the other half forward flank. At VFL, Gault is likely to be delisted with rumours he has signed for Swan Districts. So a new VFL CHF is required. Broomhead need some consistency on the park after numerous setbacks with injuries and illness. At the members forum, it appears he is now rated as a specialist forward rather than a midfield / wing option. Potential father-son selection Callum Brown will probably start his career as a half forward due to his slight frame. Hopefully he develops his body and becomes a winger like his father, one of the best wingers I have ever seen.

Forwardline:
Elliott - Moore - Mayne
(Blair - Oxley - Crocker)
The return of Jamie Elliott should be a welcome boost to the teams goalkicking woes. Hopefully he can get his back right and can play 22 games. The departure of Travis Cloke means that Darcy Moore becomes the main man despite his slender frame. He needs a big offseason in the gym to get stronger as he will be dealing with opposition no. 1 defenders and also getting double team. New recruit Chris Mayne should replace Jarryd Blair's spot as the teams new defensive forward applying tackling and pressure. Hopefully he can kick some goals too. At VFL, Oxley is the default FF due to be trialled late last season as a lead up forward. But the truth is we just don't have a VFL full forward. So hopefully pick 28 will be that player. There is a good chance that Blair may still be an AFL player off the bench because he is a favourite of Bucks but I have picked him to start in the VFL after the recruitment of Mayne. The other forward pocket is Ben Crocker who showed some very good goal sense that earnt him a few AFL games last season.

Followers:
Grundy - Pendlebury - Treloar
(Cox - Sier - Wills)
The AFL trio is one of the best in the league but the VFL trio is probably one of the worst in the VFL. I won't comment on the AFL trio because we know how good they are. In the VFL, Cox had a good season of development breaking through and playing a few AFL games up foward with the struggles of Cloke. He needs to continue his development and he will get more opportunity to work on his ruck craft as I expect him to be the teams no. 1 ruckman at VFL. Sier had a trying season whereby he didn't play much due to injury and when he did play, he didn't impress. He was recruited as a big bodied midfielder so Collingwood should persist and play him there in his 2nd season. Wills had a good first season at the club and impressed with his tackling skills which earnt him some AFL games.

Bench:
De Goey - Aish - Greenwood - Crisp
(Daicos* - ????? - ????? - ?????)
All midfielders on the AFL bench as I suspect we will probably play a bit smaller this year after Cloke's departure. I think out of the bench options Greenwood will play in the centres as he is still effective as a run with player. Aish showed great improvement on the wing and will probably rotate there with Wells and Sidebottom. For Crisp, I think he might need to play more off half back next season and rotate with Sinclair and Smith. For De Goey I think he rotates with the half forwards, swapping with Fasolo and Varcoe. Only potential father-son pick Josh Daicos listed as a VFL bench option thus far, we shall see who is drafted that fills the rest of the spots.

Excellent summation we can quibble about various players but well reasoned and supported

 

[Seedsfan]

Last year we had Key backs of Reid, Brown & Frost
We also has 3rd man up types like Marsh, Goldsack and Howe
This year we will have Reid, Keeffe & Dunn - as a group this looks just as good as last year
3rd man up types stll have Goldsack and Howe. Scharenberg may also be able to play this role.

Yes we lose WItts, but there's still time to pick up an emergency Will Minson type to cover all contingincies. It's obvious that the club rates Cox more than many supporters do.

Up forward we've lost Cloke. I'm not losing any sleep over that. The Cloke of 2016 was VFL standard. I don;t expect that to change. It's also obvuious tha the club is committed to laying a smaller forward line i.e 2 Talls and 4 smalls as opposed 3 & 3 that we used for the first half of the year. This appears to be a trend across the league, as teams opt for 3rd tall types in defense to spoil and run off larger opponents causing coaches to go smaller and put more pressure on the ball carrier.

You are incredibly selective Marsh isn't a key back yet Dunn is? Cloke may not have had a great year but he could still help us win games if Moore goes down that leaves only White. We should have gone for a cheap option like Black or Stewart.

 

[Countrypie]

You are incredibly selective Marsh isn't a key back yet Dunn is? Cloke may not have had a great year but he could still help us win games if Moore goes down that leaves only White. We should have gone for a cheap option like Black or Stewart.

Dunn has played on monsters before. I only see Marsh as a 3rd tall type, was hoping he could mature into a key back, but as I said the game is changing you only need one Big KPD now - the rest can comfortably be Howe/Goldsack size. In fact there were many games this year when we only had Brown , Howe and Marsh/Goldsack as talls in the back half and on accassions I couldn't see a logical match for Brown.
Not going to argue about Cloke - and Cox offers evry bit as much as what Cloke was capable of delivering last year and years moving forward.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Dunn has played on monsters before. I only see Marsh as a 3rd tall type, was hoping he could mature into a key back, but as I said the game is changing you only need one Big KPD now - the rest can comfortably be Howe/Goldsack size. In fact there were many games this year when we only had Brown , Howe and Marsh/Goldsack as talls in the back half and on accassions I couldn't see a logical match for Brown.
Not going to argue about Cloke - and Cox offers evry bit as much as what Cloke was capable of delivering last year and years moving forward.

One thing I like about your reasoning is you state it's about year(s) to come. And that is all it can ever be.

 

[Seedsfan]

Dunn has played on monsters before. I only see Marsh as a 3rd tall type, was hoping he could mature into a key back, but as I said the game is changing you only need one Big KPD now - the rest can comfortably be Howe/Goldsack size. In fact there were many games this year when we only had Brown , Howe and Marsh/Goldsack as talls in the back half and on accassions I couldn't see a logical match for Brown.
Not going to argue about Cloke - and Cox offers evry bit as much as what Cloke was capable of delivering last year and years moving forward.

Cox offers nothing he doesn't present he just stands there, he can make it as a ruckman but not a forward and when our undersized backline gets exposed maybe then we will see the need for Brown. The fact of the matter is if we are turning to a 28 and 29 year old to sure up our defence then we are going backwards

 

[Countrypie]

Cox offers nothing he doesn't present he just stands there, he can make it as a ruckman but not a forward and when our undersized backline gets exposed maybe then we will see the need for Brown. The fact of the matter is if we are turning to a 28 and 29 year old to sure up our defence then we are going backwards

Have it your way - let's see how we go. As I said I'm optimistic. You aren't. OK.

 

[mike123]

Question:
Why have WHE as half back when we have plenty of candidates for that role and WHE has always been an electrifying half forward?

Depends on your definition of always, because he goes missing allot up there and sure we have allot candidates for a half back role but just not allot of good ones. For mine we have too many similar players up forward he's too inconsistent up forward and our delivery won't help him. Down back we don't have many players that have a booming kick and posses line breaking speed WHE would give us that down there plus its easier to play consistency down there.

Changing from forward to back can be done, its not something outrageous. Look at Howe for us last year.

 

[mike123]

Put WHE up forward (I like the smallish mix we would have). Replace him with Sinclair or Sharenberg hopefully. Remove Broomhead*. Otherwise I believe that is a competitive 22.
I rate Broomhead in potential, but i think he's a fair way behind right now.

If you think Broomhead is a fair way behind then WHE is right there with him.

 

[Ugene41]

Given our lack of young KPP players, particularly up forward, I wonder whether it's worth developing Scharenberg as our CHF. At 191cm, he's basically the same height as Darling and McCarthy. I feel like with his lack of pace, he could potentially be exposed in the backline if he's forced to play as an accountable key or even medium defender whilst up forward he will be free to roam and given his marking ability, smarts and accurate kicking could be invaluable. I believe he also played a bit of CHF as a junior (based on what I've read only so maybe Knightmare can speak more about that). A spine of Moore, Scharenberg (+White as third tall/ruck), Reid and Dunn (+Howe as third tall defender) actually looks pretty talented on paper with all of them being strong marks, mobile and great kicks.

 

[Seedsfan]

Given our lack of young KPP players, particularly up forward, I wonder whether it's worth developing Scharenberg as our CHF. At 191cm, he's basically the same height as Darling and McCarthy. I feel like with his lack of pace, he could potentially be exposed in the backline if he's forced to play as an accountable key or even medium defender whilst up forward he will be free to roam and given his marking ability, smarts and accurate kicking could be invaluable. I believe he also played a bit of CHF as a junior (based on what I've read only so maybe Knightmare can speak more about that). A spine of Moore, Scharenberg (+White as third tall/ruck), Reid and Dunn (+Howe as third tall defender) actually looks pretty talented on paper with all of them being strong marks, mobile and great kicks.

He would get monstered at CHF he isn't a big build also CHF is considered the hardest position on the ground to play and Shaz has missed 3 seasons

 

[Knightmare]

Given our lack of young KPP players, particularly up forward, I wonder whether it's worth developing Scharenberg as our CHF. At 191cm, he's basically the same height as Darling and McCarthy. I feel like with his lack of pace, he could potentially be exposed in the backline if he's forced to play as an accountable key or even medium defender whilst up forward he will be free to roam and given his marking ability, smarts and accurate kicking could be invaluable. I believe he also played a bit of CHF as a junior (based on what I've read only so maybe Knightmare can speak more about that). A spine of Moore, Scharenberg (+White as third tall/ruck), Reid and Dunn (+Howe as third tall defender) actually looks pretty talented on paper with all of them being strong marks, mobile and great kicks.

I've got:
B: Jackson Ramsay Lynden Dunn Brayden Maynard
HB: Tom Langdon Ben Reid Jeremy Howe
CEN: Steele Sidebottom Adam Treloar Taylor Adams
HF: Daniel Wells Chris Mayne Travis Varcoe
F: Alex Fasolo Darcy Moore Jamie Elliott
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Jordan De Goey
In the mix for the last four bench positions: Jack Crisp Mason Cox Matthew Scharenberg Tim Broomhead James Aish Will Hoskin-Elliott Jonathon Marsh Tom Phillips Ben Crocker Levi Greenwood Rupert Wills Ben Sinclair Jarryd Blair Tyson Goldsack Josh Smith

Overall it's a list downgrade and a weakened best 22. But we have what we have.

 

[Lord Randy]

Maynard Dunn Ramsay

Howe Reid Aish

Sidebottom Treloar Wells

Hoskin-Elliot White Mayne

Fasolo Moore Elliot

FWL: Pendlebury Adams Grundy
INT: De-Goey, Varcoe, Crisp, Goldsack.

 

[Ugene41]

He would get monstered at CHF he isn't a big build also CHF is considered the hardest position on the ground to play and Shaz has missed 3 seasons

Monstered by who though? As a forward, you get to dictate how you play whereas it's the defender's responsibility to match up well on you. If they choose to put a gorilla key defender on him, Scharenberg can just lead up the ground, stay mobile and outrun his defender rather than get into any wrestling matches Cloke style. He's more likely to be monstered if he was to play as a key defender. Considering our current option is Jesse White as our CHF, it's not like White's going to be out muscling anyone else.

 

[Kadog]

Here's my 22+

B: Maynard Dunn Shazz
HB: Howe Reid Langdon
C: Sidebottom Wells Varcoe
HF: Mayne Moore DeGoey
FF: Fasolo White Elliot
Foll: Grundy Pendles Treloar

B: Adams Crisp WHE Aish
E: Greenwood Sinclair Keefe Rams

 

[Prochard123]

Depends on your definition of always, because he goes missing allot up there and sure we have allot candidates for a half back role but just not allot of good ones. For mine we have too many similar players up forward he's too inconsistent up forward and our delivery won't help him. Down back we don't have many players that have a booming kick and posses line breaking speed WHE would give us that down there plus its easier to play consistency down there.

Changing from forward to back can be done, its not something outrageous. Look at Howe for us last year.

Scharenberg, Maynard, Howe, Aish, Varcoe, Wells, Broomhead, Adams, Pendlebury, Smith all can play at half-back. I can guarantee u WHE will NEVER play as a half back for us.

 

[Seedsfan]

Monstered by who though? As a forward, you get to dictate how you play whereas it's the defender's responsibility to match up well on you. If they choose to put a gorilla key defender on him, Scharenberg can just lead up the ground, stay mobile and outrun his defender rather than get into any wrestling matches Cloke style. He's more likely to be monstered if he was to play as a key defender. Considering our current option is Jesse White as our CHF, it's not like White's going to be out muscling anyone else.

You would not be able to kick it down the line to him in a contest at all, he is to slight to play a key post at either end of the ground. I wouldn't mind him forward as a third tall but he is not going to be a CHF