List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

What should we do with our 1st round draft pick?

  • Finn O’Sullivan

    Votes: 57 19.0%

  • Sid Draper

    Votes: 86 28.7%

  • Josh Smillie

    Votes: 22 7.3%

  • Jagga Smith

    Votes: 34 11.3%

  • Split for best mid and Tobie Travaglia

    Votes: 46 15.3%

  • Split for best mid and Liam Baker

    Votes: 20 6.7%

  • Split for best mid and best KPD

    Votes: 4 1.3%

  • Split for best two mids

    Votes: 9 3.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 13 4.3%

  • Sam Lalor

    Votes: 9 3.0%
  • Total voters
    300
  • Poll closed .

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.


Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings


Latest news and rumours:


 
Last edited by a moderator:
Obeanie1 said:
What pick was Beau Waters? Pick 8.

If Ginbey has the career of Waters I'd take that in a heartbeat. Exactly the type of half back we need.

Halfback is basically a midfielder in the modern game.
Click to expand...
Loved Beau, but I would 100% not take a 120 game career from big Rubes.
 
Get_The_Gaff said:
I think ginbey would be better off spending time behind to ball more than Harley.

Give ginbey a lock down role to stop an opponent then look to work hard to give options when we have the ball .
Click to expand...
The modern game needs players like Wanganeen-Millera with precision footskills at hb. Maybe Ginbey could be a lock down defender but not sure he's the modern day half back
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

Whilst Ginbey and Waters both have/had average kicking that is where the similarities in their games end.

Ginbey is average overhead
He is much faster than Waters

Waters was elite at reading the play, elite overhead in either a one vs one or even in a pack situation. Ginbey will strive to improve any and all areas of his game but he's not a lockdown defenders arseh*le because he can't read the ball anywhere near the level of a forward and he can't be a great rebound defender because he's not great overhead and his kicking skills are average at best. Sometimes they are great, sometimes they are shocking. Part maybe his decision making but it's primarily his actual skill with ball in hand by foot. Waters was very good at making the right decision but his kicking skills whilst having good (not amazing) penetration were his weakness. Ginbey is hard as nails but Waters is up there with the most courageous players I've seen at any level. Even with Waters courage, reading of play and marking with the speed of the game now and the footskills required from the back half i'm not sure he'd make it at AFL level if drafted now as anything other than a lockdown defender.

The club needs to continue to round off Ginbey's game and develop what he has, he has some amazing attributes but for me he's either going to be a powerful midfielder eventually or he's going to be a roleplayer at best. I think he needs to be following top end power midfielders around and learning their playstyle in a similar manner to how Yeo developed as a midfielder. Hopefully a fully fit Yeo, Sheed and Flynn can be around allowing us to have Sheed on one wing and Kelly on the other as they both have great skills when they have a bit of time. Flynn and Yeo can help us break even at CB whilst allowing us to develop the youngsters in stints through there. Kelly can be rotated through and around the ground Kelly and Sheed are both great stoppage clearance winners. Seems a whole lot riding on a few very injury prone players.

He may be second to the ball Ginbey now but he does still have a lot of elite attributes and if he does get to the point of being the one getting to the ball first even 50% of the time against the oppositions best mids then we will have one seriously good player. A taller, faster version of peak Scott Selwood.

Chesser is a far different case. I'd be trying him and developing him from the centre square at WAFL level. He again has a great attitude and very good athleticism and good speed but he needs to get his hands on the ball. He again doesn't read the play well unless the ball is already around him and isn't making it to the right places. He has missed so much football I think he needs to develop at a lower level because playing him on a wing against quality wingers who know where to be is just killing him. In a lot of ways he almost needs to be treated as a first year player who has missed some development and hope for the best. But he's going to be a slow burn. It's either there or develop him as a run and gun HB but again in the WAFL for an extended period.
 
Get_The_Gaff said:
I think ginbey would be better off spending time behind to ball more than Harley.

Give ginbey a lock down role to stop an opponent then look to work hard to give options when we have the ball .
Click to expand...
Agreed, but in a couple more years.
For mine he is a bit clumsy yet, sorta like a baby giraffe , and would give away a lot of frees.
2 years and he will be pretty polished by then
 
thebutterflyeffect said:
The modern games need players like Wanganeen-Millera with precision footskills at hb. Maybe Ginbey could be a lock down defender but not sure he's the modern day half back
Click to expand...

Mason Redman is pretty close to what Waters would do. But Beau was as hard as a cats head and did not mind body contact.

Very good overhead, take a specy and a pretty decent left boot.

If you dont rate Waters.......you didnt watch him play.
 
eagles rule said:
It would be unfair to any young draftee to be burdened with the weight of being valued at 2.5 m on draft night ..As history as shown us it really can be a massive fail with these top 10 picks ..
Click to expand...
that was a theoretical number, and they would be valued at that instead of a pick swap xD
 
Obeanie1 said:
Mason Redman is pretty close to what Waters would do. But Beau was as hard as a cats head and did not mind body contact.

Very good overhead, take a specy and a pretty decent left boot.

If you dont rate Waters.......you didnt watch him play.
Click to expand...

I greatly rated Waters and he was a very, very good player at the time. I'm saying his skillset wouldn't relate to the game now and the direction it's moving further and further towards. He'd be a lockdown defender, maybe even a very good one.
 
Obeanie1 said:
Mason Redman is pretty close to what Waters would do. But Beau was as hard as a cats head and did not mind body contact.

Very good overhead, take a specy and a pretty decent left boot.

If you dont rate Waters.......you didnt watch him play.
Click to expand...
Not a question of not rating Waters. He was as tough as they come, but I reckon in the modern day game he'd make a better lock down backman, half forward or midfielder than half back.

You look at all the best teams now, they generate a lot of their attack from their half backs, Daicos, Saad, Wanganeen-Millera, Jordan Clarke, Coleman, Whitfield etc. All have various combinations of speed and footskills. Ginbey/Waters could be half-backs but I don't think that type of player (Duggan and Cole included) are the prototype half backs of the modern game.
 
WCE_phil said:
I greatly rated Waters and he was a very, very good player at the time. I'm saying his skillset wouldn't relate to the game now and the direction it's moving further and further towards. He'd be a lockdown defender, maybe even a very good one.
Click to expand...

WCE_phil said:
I greatly rated Waters and he was a very, very good player at the time. I'm saying his skillset wouldn't relate to the game now and the direction it's moving further and further towards. He'd be a lockdown defender, maybe even a very good one.
Click to expand...
Mark hutchings was one of the better lockdown defenders at the Eagles. Loved watching him play.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Obeanie1 said:
Sure spending salary cap on English as a free agent will set us back like the Tim Kelly trade.

Great argument. Not.

You are happy to spend it on a K6P forward or mid but not on a 200cm KP tall who plays like a mid but also can play ruck. And a free agent costing no picks. And yes rhe only way we would consider him is as a free agent.

Your points contradict each other.
Click to expand...
They don’t though. Picks are not the only assets a club gives up. Cap space is an asset. English, to me, is a misallocation of assets. Free agent or not, he costs us something we could spend in other ways - money.

I don’t buy him as an elite tap ruckman, and I don’t think he’s as good of a mid as an elite mid we could try to lure over with cash instead.

He’s a far better ‘mid’ than any other ruckman. I don’t think he’s nearly as good a mid as any proper mids. He’s a far better forward than most ruckmen. I don’t think he’s nearly as good a forward as a proper forward.

If we’re spending 1A elite money, I’d rather we do it on a 1A mid or forward, not on a decent tap ruckman who does other stuff far better than his ruck peers, but nowhere near to the standard of players in those actual positions.

He’s not an AA calibre mid or forward. He’s very versatile for a ruck. There’s a massive difference.

I’ll say it again - Dean Cox was Dean Cox because he was also dominant in the ruck. He was never making AA as a mid on his run and gun output alone. The worst Eagles side in history just comfortably won the clearances and leveled the inside 50s in a 12 goal loss against a Bont-led Dogs midfield on their home deck. Give me another proper forward alongside Oscar on the end of that, rather than some seriously impressive running from a position that isn’t known for that alongside a clearance battering.
 
WCE_phil said:
Whilst Ginbey and Waters both have/had average kicking that is where the similarities in their games end.

Ginbey is average overhead
He is much faster than Waters

Waters was elite at reading the play, elite overhead in either a one vs one or even in a pack situation. Ginbey will strive to improve any and all areas of his game but he's not a lockdown defenders arseh*le because he can't read the ball anywhere near the level of a forward and he can't be a great rebound defender because he's not great overhead and his kicking skills are average at best. Sometimes they are great, sometimes they are shocking. Part maybe his decision making but it's primarily his actual skill with ball in hand by foot. Waters was very good at making the right decision but his kicking skills whilst having good (not amazing) penetration were his weakness. Ginbey is hard as nails but Waters is up there with the most courageous players I've seen at any level. Even with Waters courage, reading of play and marking with the speed of the game now and the footskills required from the back half i'm not sure he'd make it at AFL level if drafted now as anything other than a lockdown defender.

The club needs to continue to round off Ginbey's game and develop what he has, he has some amazing attributes but for me he's either going to be a powerful midfielder eventually or he's going to be a roleplayer at best. I think he needs to be following top end power midfielders around and learning their playstyle in a similar manner to how Yeo developed as a midfielder. Hopefully a fully fit Yeo, Sheed and Flynn can be around allowing us to have Sheed on one wing and Kelly on the other as they both have great skills when they have a bit of time. Flynn and Yeo can help us break even at CB whilst allowing us to develop the youngsters in stints through there. Kelly can be rotated through and around the ground Kelly and Sheed are both great stoppage clearance winners. Seems a whole lot riding on a few very injury prone players.

He may be second to the ball Ginbey now but he does still have a lot of elite attributes and if he does get to the point of being the one getting to the ball first even 50% of the time against the oppositions best mids then we will have one seriously good player. A taller, faster version of peak Scott Selwood.

Chesser is a far different case. I'd be trying him and developing him from the centre square at WAFL level. He again has a great attitude and very good athleticism and good speed but he needs to get his hands on the ball. He again doesn't read the play well unless the ball is already around him and isn't making it to the right places. He has missed so much football I think he needs to develop at a lower level because playing him on a wing against quality wingers who know where to be is just killing him. In a lot of ways he almost needs to be treated as a first year player who has missed some development and hope for the best. But he's going to be a slow burn. It's either there or develop him as a run and gun HB but again in the WAFL for an extended period.
Click to expand...
I was reading a interview with Clayton Oliver
About his start to his career and how bad a kick he was in his first 3 seasons
Even in space no one near him he would turn it over laced with the occasional brilliant kick
He was talking about the perceived pressure of being a inside mid and how it effected his kicking
Stating he had all the fundamentals but it took his 3 and 4th year preseasons working on his kicking
with Adam Yze that he saw the rewards in his 4th year.
Where he stopped turning it over and started delivering lace out
He said it was taking that extra half second to compose himself, but it also took time for his body to adjust
and his mind to relax once that started happening be started becoming truly elite

Also Phil i will disagree on his defending having watched every one of his colts games and psa footy.
His was very very good one on one rarely lost a contest used his body positioning well and provided plenty of rebound
When he was a defender generally kicked it long and low good kicking
It's his short passing game that needs work
And he has been a huge overhead marker but that is something he can develop
 
THE A5 said:
Duffs right. Wouldn’t mind seeing chess play a bit of midfield. Has the tank, size and speed as well. TK at times played hff and we could possibly explore him doing that more and see more chess inside. Heck finding out chess is more of a mid than a wingmen would actually be a massive win for considering how many times we’ve drafted guys and found out out they aren’t mids.

He might not be an extractor but I reckon he’s probably has tools to be a player like trealor. That 3rd/4th mid thats a bit outside leaning, has toe and can run and use the ball well
Click to expand...
Treloar does not use the ball at all well. But otherwise fair point/good comparison, although he'll never get the numbers of Treloar who has always found it easily
 
JackOutback said:
Not really, if he becomes a half back flanker that drives attacks, like Hodge or Sheppard, and Hewitt becomes a jet, it's still a good draft.
Click to expand...
If Hewett becomes a good mid, Ginbey a counter attacking half back that can play tall and small, Barnett a solid ruck and Long a solid HFF, then that will be a bloody awesome draft! I think it's a realistic outcome too.
 
HoneyBadger35 said:
They don’t though. Picks are not the only assets a club gives up. Cap space is an asset. English, to me, is a misallocation of assets. Free agent or not, he costs us something we could spend in other ways - money.

I don’t buy him as an elite tap ruckman, and I don’t think he’s as good of a mid as an elite mid we could try to lure over with cash instead.

He’s a far better ‘mid’ than any other ruckman. I don’t think he’s nearly as good a mid as any proper mids. He’s a far better forward than most ruckmen. I don’t think he’s nearly as good a forward as a proper forward.

If we’re spending 1A elite money, I’d rather we do it on a 1A mid or forward, not on a decent tap ruckman who does other stuff far better than his ruck peers, but nowhere near to the standard of players in those actual positions.

He’s not an AA calibre mid or forward. He’s very versatile for a ruck. There’s a massive difference.

I’ll say it again - Dean Cox was Dean Cox because he was also dominant in the ruck. He was never making AA as a mid on his run and gun output alone. The worst Eagles side in history just comfortably won the clearances and leveled the inside 50s in a 12 goal loss against a Bont-led Dogs midfield on their home deck. Give me another proper forward alongside Oscar on the end of that, rather than some seriously impressive running from a position that isn’t known for that alongside a clearance battering.
Click to expand...

We have $4m in free cap space next season. $7m per year available to spend in two years.

With no one other than Harley looking like earning a big pay rise.

We have the spend 95% of the cap. So who do we spend it on?

The argument that a player like English takes up too much cap is just incorrect and not understanding where our total player payments sit now and in the near future. English could be offered $1.5m for 3 years droping to $1m in later years and it would make zero impact on our ability to land other players. Zero.

The English contract is fully covered by Gaff and Darling retiring this season and next.

Who else do we pay?
 
thebutterflyeffect said:
The modern game needs players like Wanganeen-Millera with precision footskills at hb. Maybe Ginbey could be a lock down defender but not sure he's the modern day half back
Click to expand...
Where did I say he would be a kicking HBF ?

Clearly not his strength

He would be the one running hard to give options like on the switch gut running to the outer side .

You need strong 1 on 1 defenders .

Guys like wangneen-milera and Farrell are awesome kicks of the ball but aren't the best defenders .
 
Get_The_Gaff said:
Why ?
Waters , hurn and sheppard were all higher picks than ginbey and were all worthy of those picks .
Click to expand...

He’s right.

The assignment was “mids, mids, mids” in the draft as stated by the coach himself.

If Ginbey doesn’t end up a mid. We ****ed up the draft.

If he becomes a a good hbf/defender we salvaged a good outcome from a poor decision.
 
thebutterflyeffect said:
The modern game needs players like Wanganeen-Millera with precision footskills at hb. Maybe Ginbey could be a lock down defender but not sure he's the modern day half back
Click to expand...

The modern game needs a NWM type, but you can’t have all your hbf in the NWM mould.

Every team also needs third talls, medium lockdown defenders etc.

There’s still a variety of roles that needed to be filled in the backline and NWM types are just one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

Keys
  • Locked
  • Poll
List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season
794 795 796 797 798
Replies
20K
Views
934K
Dark Sharks
Dark Sharks
eaglevision
  • Poll
List Mgmt. Contracts/Trade/Draft Thread - 2025 Edition
78 79 80 81 82
Replies
2K
Views
113K
eaglevision
eaglevision
Keys
Competitions Draft Quiz - 2024
2
Replies
30
Views
1K
Doashuey
Doashuey
Keys
  • Locked
Game Day The 2024 Draft Day Thread
75 76 77 78 79
Replies
2K
Views
83K
Keys
Keys
Keys
Competitions WCE Board Mock Draft 2024
8 9 10 11 12
Replies
294
Views
12K
We_The_West
We_The_West
HoneyBadger35
MRP / Trib. The MRP/Tribunal Thread - 2024 Edition
13 14 15 16 17
Replies
404
Views
19K
Tugga27
Tugga27
Keys
  • Locked
List Mgmt. The 2024 Draft (Nov 20/21)
182 183 184 185 186
Replies
5K
Views
240K
Ruben Grubarb
R
Back
Top