List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings

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Latest news and rumours:

• Tom Barrass officially requests trade to Hawthorn
  • Duffield: Eagles want two first round picks - "It may have to be in this year’s draft rather than a future pick."
  • Morris: Josh Battle is set to join Barrass at Hawthorn in 2025 - Ralph: Unclear if Hawks will pay enough for Band 1

• Kysaiah Pickett interested in a trade
  • "Club and management are confident they can work through his concerns"
  • Daniels: Pickett’s preference is Fremantle. Fremantle are keen, but Bolton the priority. Getting both “not impossible”. West Coast “an option if things get complicated.”

• Jai Culley, Coen Livingstone, Loch Rawlinson in line for one-year deals (The West)
  
  
• Liam Baker and Shai Bolton
  15

  Shai Bolton

  Age

  26

  Ht

  176cm

  Wt

  77kg

  Pos.

  M/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  12.3

  3star

  K

  6.9

  3star

  HB

  5.4

  4star

  M

  2.8

  3star

  T

  2.9

  4star

  CL

  1.4

  4star

  D

  12.7

  3star

  K

  9.2

  4star

  HB

  3.5

  2star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  2.7

  4star

  CL

  1.8

  4star

  D

  9.2

  3star

  K

  4.6

  2star

  HB

  4.6

  4star

  M

  2.0

  3star

  T

  2.6

  4star

  CL

  0.0

  1star

  officially request trades to WA
  • Daniels: Bolton is Fremantle’s priority

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

They don’t though. Picks are not the only assets a club gives up. Cap space is an asset. English, to me, is a misallocation of assets. Free agent or not, he costs us something we could spend in other ways - money.

I don’t buy him as an elite tap ruckman, and I don’t think he’s as good of a mid as an elite mid we could try to lure over with cash instead.

He’s a far better ‘mid’ than any other ruckman. I don’t think he’s nearly as good a mid as any proper mids. He’s a far better forward than most ruckmen. I don’t think he’s nearly as good a forward as a proper forward.

If we’re spending 1A elite money, I’d rather we do it on a 1A mid or forward, not on a decent tap ruckman who does other stuff far better than his ruck peers, but nowhere near to the standard of players in those actual positions.

He’s not an AA calibre mid or forward. He’s very versatile for a ruck. There’s a massive difference.

I’ll say it again - Dean Cox was Dean Cox because he was also dominant in the ruck. He was never making AA as a mid on his run and gun output alone. The worst Eagles side in history just comfortably won the clearances and leveled the inside 50s in a 12 goal loss against a Bont-led Dogs midfield on their home deck. Give me another proper forward alongside Oscar on the end of that, rather than some seriously impressive running from a position that isn’t known for that alongside a clearance battering.

I understand your argument but at the end of the day to get that 1A mid or 1A forward we would most likely have to give up a kings ransom in draft picks .

What would we have to give up for Logan MacDonald or Chad warner ?

Sydney would be demanding significant compensation.

Or we could keep our first pick this year and pick the best mid for 130k x 3 years and get English for 1 million .

Or one of warner or MacDonald for 1 million per year and have maybe a late first rounder if we are lucky left .

Pay English 1.2 million for his first 3 years whilst we have cap to spare then 800k a year for the remainder of his contract.

 

[dinnaz]

We have $4m in free cap space next season. $7m per year available to spend in two years.

With no one other than Harley looking like earning a big pay rise.

We have the spend 95% of the cap. So who do we spend it on?

The argument that a player like English takes up too much cap is just incorrect and not understanding where our total player payments sit now and in the near future. English could be offered $1.5m for 3 years droping to $1m in later years and it would make zero impact on our ability to land other players. Zero.

The English contract is fully covered by Gaff and Darling retiring this season and next.

Who else do we pay?

Renegotiate the entire list and front end every contract.
Hire 3 new development coaches

Youre right we should spend the dollars, et's just not do a Freo and throw the check book at anyone who wants a bit of sun.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

He’s right.

The assignment was “mids, mids, mids” in the draft as stated by the coach himself.

If Ginbey doesn’t end up a mid. We ****ed up the draft.

If he becomes a a good hbf/defender we salvaged a good outcome from a poor decision.

That's the west coast way . Draft a flanker and try turn them into a mid

Duggan drafted as a mid failed and played as a HBF

Venables was supposed to transition to a mid but was never able to get his hands on the ball so a HFF

Sheppard didn't make it as a mid

Brander lol

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

That's the west coast way . Draft a flanker and try turn them into a mid

Duggan drafted as a mid failed and played as a HBF

Venables was supposed to transition to a mid but was never able to get his hands on the ball so a HFF

Sheppard didn't make it as a mid

Brander lol

You can’t cloak the drafting decisions in 2022 with decisions from previous years.

We went in to the draft with the specific intention of drafting mids.

For what it’s worth, Im not currently worried about Ginbey’s ability to become a mid in medium/ long term.

His kicking is average, but so are lots of mids, and our skills are poor across the ground, either through real or perceived pressure, or game plan , or work rate and trying to find space.

In a normal environment Ginbey would be playing a flanker role while senior players got to work in the guts.

We are asking too much of all our young players, and then writing them off/complaining they aren’t able to meet expectations that were never reasonable to begin with.

Slow burn. Long term view.

 

[ArdentEagle]

We have $4m in free cap space next season. $7m per year available to spend in two years.

With no one other than Harley looking like earning a big pay rise.

We have the spend 95% of the cap. So who do we spend it on?

The argument that a player like English takes up too much cap is just incorrect and not understanding where our total player payments sit now and in the near future. English could be offered $1.5m for 3 years droping to $1m in later years and it would make zero impact on our ability to land other players. Zero.

The English contract is fully covered by Gaff and Darling retiring this season and next.

Who else do we pay?

Hugh McLuggage
Harry Perryman
Cam Zurhaar
Tyson Stengle


Would be a juicy start

 

[Obeanie1]

Hugh McLuggage
Harry Perryman
Cam Zurhaar
Tyson Stengle


Would be a juicy start

End of the day we will be lucky to attract one maybe two free agents.

Perth is not a destination for top line free agents not born in WA.

And only McLuggage is top line in that list. Stengle is close but small forwards are the cherry on the cake.

 

[chaddy22]

We have $4m in free cap space next season. $7m per year available to spend in two years.

With no one other than Harley looking like earning a big pay rise.

We have the spend 95% of the cap. So who do we spend it on?

The argument that a player like English takes up too much cap is just incorrect and not understanding where our total player payments sit now and in the near future. English could be offered $1.5m for 3 years droping to $1m in later years and it would make zero impact on our ability to land other players. Zero.

The English contract is fully covered by Gaff and Darling retiring this season and next.

Who else do we pay?

It would be criminal to overlook English. Would he be better than Bailey Williams? Bailey is ok at centre bounces but not around the ground. The fact that he has trained as a forward this year shows what the club thinking is his best position. Flynn is a wait and see.
Could we even play English as a forward ruck. Yes he is expensive but our overpaid seniors are coming out of contract and i can't think of any players at the moment who are worth giving a pay rise. The one lever we have with so much cap space is to look at any free agents that won't cost draft picks and we should be able to offer more. If we can get two or three free agents i say go for it.
We need to use our early draft picks for best young talent. Should we get some compo picks we could bring more players in with our cap space. We need to improve our list with young talent and some experienced players as you think Withers, Rotham won't be there next year

 

[chaddy22]

He’s right.

The assignment was “mids, mids, mids” in the draft as stated by the coach himself.

If Ginbey doesn’t end up a mid. We ****ed up the draft.

If he becomes a a good hbf/defender we salvaged a good outcome from a poor decision.

I know Guv was drafted as a rookie but he's been a failure. Drafted as a KPF and ended up KPD

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

I know Guv was drafted as a rookie but he's been a failure. Drafted as a KPF and ended up KPD

You know the saying.

Key defenders are just failed forwards

 

[briztoon]

Probably not the right thread here for this post.

Some good analysis across the competition here.

Touches on Nic Martin and Riley Bonner

36

Riley Bonner

Age

27

Ht

190cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.1

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

279.8

4star

D

12.3

3star

K

10.3

4star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

279.8

4star

D

21.4

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

7.4

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.0

4star

. Puts both their games in to perspective.

Good discussion about West Coast at the end. Won’t spoil it, but it’s a positive.

Best if Obeanie1 ignores the Brisbane discussion at the beginning.

 

[Jumpoff Joey]

Its only round 4 and we're going around in circles.

Already I want to skip the year for the offseason so we can just move on and hopefully start to see more light at the end of the tunnel. This whole season will debate the following;

What will the AFL assistance package look like
Will Simmo get sacked
How will the kids get developed
English vs any other FA and is he worth it.

I am one for hoping AFL gives us the Suns package but R2 and R3 will be coming our way (Wealthy Club - Victims for our own success)

Simmo to be removed at the end of season to be replaced with Giansiracusa. My understanding he is a great development coach and being our list in its infancy probably is the right call????

Something has to give the WAFL this whole shit isnt working and probably needs to be treated as priority.

English - Dont care, we have the money just start throwing it out there go for English and Mcluggage. Throw a little extra at Busslinger. Get in the ear of Walters, Curtin, Tholstrup, Hardeman, Collard (2023) and Allan, Jones and maybe Adams (2022)

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Probably not the right thread here for this post.

Some good analysis across the competition here.

Touches on Nic Martin and Riley Bonner

36

Riley Bonner

Age

27

Ht

190cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.1

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

279.8

4star

D

12.3

3star

K

10.3

4star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

279.8

4star

D

21.4

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

7.4

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.0

4star

. Puts both their games in to perspective.

Good discussion about West Coast at the end. Won’t spoil it, but it’s a positive.

Best if Obeanie1 ignores the Brisbane discussion at the beginning.

Thanks for posting this. I skipped forward and listened to the button West Coast.

I really like Hoyne and his evidence informed analysis, and susbscribed myself to his “core four” pillars.

A tick for clearance and ground ball, terrible in other phases. Essentially the inverse of when we were good.

I think some of the gloomy outlook and pessimism is more around personnel than system.

It was Kelly, Yeo, Gov standing up and our younger guys, other than Harley aren’t really showing as much as we would have hoped for.

A good listen nonetheless, and provides a bit of optimism and light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

our younger guys ... aren’t really showing as much as we would have hoped for.

... provides a bit of optimism and light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Operative words “a bit”

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Operative words “a bit”

In Harley we trust.

 

[briztoon]

Young players take time to get good.

 

[JackOutback]

We have $4m in free cap space next season. $7m per year available to spend in two years.

With no one other than Harley looking like earning a big pay rise.

We have the spend 95% of the cap. So who do we spend it on?

The argument that a player like English takes up too much cap is just incorrect and not understanding where our total player payments sit now and in the near future. English could be offered $1.5m for 3 years droping to $1m in later years and it would make zero impact on our ability to land other players. Zero.

The English contract is fully covered by Gaff and Darling retiring this season and next.

Who else do we pay?

The bolded isn't quite true. Even if they haven't impressed as much as Reid, Ginbey, Hewitt, Long, Hough etc aren't re-signing on draftee's wages. Each would be due a decent bump, which adds up to a significant amount overall.

 

[Obeanie1]

Probably not the right thread here for this post.

Some good analysis across the competition here.

Touches on Nic Martin and Riley Bonner. Puts both their games in to perspective.

Good discussion about West Coast at the end. Won’t spoil it, but it’s a positive.

Best if Obeanie1 ignores the Brisbane discussion at the beginning.

Finding new ways to continuing "poking us with a broom stick"" Briz?

That is how you described yourself posting and stirring the pot on here in one of the Lions draft threads wasn't it?

Did they say how Brisbane just aren't good enough to win a flag ATM but the academy will sort that out soon enough? Something....something along those lines I presume.

I'm a great believer in karma. Lions 0 - 3 and an internal player bust up looks like it's coming to roost for Lions fans such as yourself. Looks like that flag window is closing.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

In Harley we trust.

I think people in general, have a negativity bias which lends itself to pessimism.

Sometimes it needs to be counterbalanced with a healthy dose of realism, and trying to search for positives.

Nothing is ever as bad or as good as it seems etc etc.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Finding new ways to continuing "poking us with a broom stick"" Briz?

That is how you described yourself posting and stirring the pot on here in one of the Lions draft threads wasn't it?

Did they say how Brisbane just aren't good enough to win a flag ATM but the academy will sort that out soon enough? Something....something along those lines I presume.

I'm a great believer in karma. Lions 0 - 3 and an internal player bust up looks like it's coming to roost for Lions fans such as yourself. Looks like that flag window is closing.

He can be baity at times, but you just make it all too easy.

 

[Obeanie1]

The bolded isn't quite true. Even if they haven't impressed as much as Reid, Ginbey, Hewitt, Long, Hough etc aren't re-signing on draftee's wages. Each would be due a decent bump, which adds up to a significant amount overall.

And players such as Rotham, Witherden, Jones, Cole and Cripps will all be retiring or moved on freeing up more cap space as those young guys earn their first contract.

None will demand the money Ried will.

That doesn't count the big $800k contracts McGovern, Yeo, Gaff and Darling are all on.

 

[Obeanie1]

He can be baity at times, but you just make it all too easy.

He's turning into a troll.

Calling him out as a troll is making it easy?

Right!

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

The bolded isn't quite true. Even if they haven't impressed as much as Reid, Ginbey, Hewitt, Long, Hough etc aren't re-signing on draftee's wages. Each would be due a decent bump, which adds up to a significant amount overall.

A normal contract for years 3-4 is 400-500K for a first rounder.

Assuming Hewett and Ginbey are closer to 500 and the others you mentioned 400K

That’s a combined 1.8m in the cap at the very most, and I probably put a fair bit of mayo on those figures.

We are a mile off our young talent causing us cap issues in the way it has caused GWS issues.

There was an immediate 10% increase in cap for 2023 as CBA had expired in 2022.

On top of that a 12% increase this year and 30% over 5 years.

We are likely going to struggle meeting the 95% cap floor for the next 2 years.

 

[noobermensch]

The traditional rivalry between the Dragons and Chargers resulted in a big win for Sandy, and Taj Hotton was instrumental in the victory with a BOG performance. He didn't stop working all game, was clean with the ball, strong overhead and topped it off by hitting the scoreboard.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I think 4 year 8 mill for McCluggage is the type of offer he would need

Idea of offering 1.2 mill etc is laughable. We need to change multiple lives to make such a deal happen. He aint joining as a charity case