List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

The Contracts Thread

Current contract status (Updated 26/6/24) : Total 45 Players - Main List (37) Rookie List (6) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2027 (3) : Tom Barrass (8/10/95) - Signed a 5 year extension (2023-27) on an existing contract due to expire 2022 in December 2021 Reuben Ginbey (10/9/04) - Signed a 3 year...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[briztoon]

Re. Travaglia, my point was more we should look to upgrade if we fancy someone between our first and second rather than splitting our first. I am firmly in favour of best available midfielder at our first pick. Travaglia I see a luxury we likely can't afford and should only make a play for if we can move up the draft board . I would add footskills and creativity by foot to your list of the side's biggest weaknesses, particularly from the back half, and Travaglia will go some way to rectifying that. I also think you are underselling him somewhat, but I do have a bias for players who can read the ball and set up the play with good footskills.

How do you propose to upgrade your second pick?

You’re either trading a current player who has first round value.

Or, you are packaging your current and future second round picks to move up. Need to find a buyer.

Or you are trading out your future first round pick. Again you need to find a buyer, and get a fair price on such a trade. We all saw last year, it wasn’t easy to find a buyer for your future first round pick, inside the top 10.

 

[Icanwalk]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but as other posters have mentioned here, it’s going to be a very slow and difficult rebuild, if you are doing it at a rate of one first round pick a year.

Especially if the AFL wind back NGA access to what it originally was, with no restrictions on where teams can match a bid.

At some point WC are going to have to find a way to generate extra first round draft picks to speed up your rebuild.

I agree. A sustained period of success combined with some bad fortune/timing and a few original sins of our list transition has meant we are desperately lacking in both quality and quantity. The pertinent question is how to generate more first round picks (beyond priority picks). I don't think the answer is to split picks that would otherwise give you access to the elite players in the draft pool.

There are other options. In a world where Lachie Schultz, a pedestrian role-player (who nonetheless has proven to be a valuable component of a functioning forward line and thus has value to the right buyer), can be traded for a future first, we have our answer. Whether outright trades for picks, or pick upgrades, we could be taking advantage of such opportunities, but we have instead gone the other way.

For instance, would Tim Kelly, Waterman, or Cripps have any value to the Dockers? They've built a well-rounded list with few deficiencies, but if they want to target a premiership in the short term, they could do with additional reinforcements (or a different dimension) in each of the positions played by these 3. And they have 3 mid-late first-rounders we could target. This is just one example, but I fear we have already burnt most of these opportunities.

I would also be looking to consistently trade into the future as clubs have shown a willingness to pay a premium for present picks (and so value future picks lower). Our list is in such a dire state, and the rebuild will be so long, that the cost of a missing a year of development is diminished and having the extra draft capital is worth the cost.

 

[Jumpoff Joey]

Interestingly, Dan Const said on the Twitter chat after the game that Curtin leaving the Crows is very much on the cards. Apparently hates it there.

Dunno where he got his mail from though.

Timing is a bitch, when and how we get him….If this year then we would need to split our first.

Otherwise every year we wait he could settle.

2026 would be the time to pull the trigger while he pinches games here and there. Likewise Busslinger this year, R2/R3 gets it done.

 

[maverick001]

The best performance of the Champs series so far for Moraes who's been solid and consistent without really tearing a game apart. Its probably not surprising that this was also the game in which he had his highest number of midfield rotations and was able to use his running power to burn off his opponents on the spread. He was especially effective in the second half as Metro got well on top in general play, featuring in many of their most productive passages of play and kicking a couple of goals.

Kicking was very good

 

[Jumpoff Joey]

For instance, would Tim Kelly, Waterman, or Cripps have any value to the Dockers?

No one is paying an R1 for those three.

Barrass/Yeo was the only opportunity to get something in. This is now vetoed.

Yeo resigned. Barrass has come out and said it’s bullshit. So we just need to build through the draft with what we have and go hard at free agents.

 

[maverick001]

Interestingly, Dan Const said on the Twitter chat after the game that Curtin leaving the Crows is very much on the cards. Apparently hates it there.

Dunno where he got his mail from though.

Who is dan const?

 

[TerryFilk]

Would never have guessed that.







Or maybe I should have, because you bag the shit out of him ad infinitum.

I don’t see how I bag the shit out of him, I’ve said consistently I’d be fine with him if we split the pick but he’s simply just not a top 3-4 prospect right now.

 

[briztoon]

Timing is a bitch, when and how we get him….If this year then we would need to split our first.

Otherwise every year we wait he could settle.

2026 would be the time to pull the trigger while he pinches games here and there. Likewise Busslinger this year, R2/R3 gets it done.

Do you want/need both?

If you had to pick one, which player would you prefer?

And is Bazzo back playing for the BEagles? How is he going?

 

[Shueygod]

No one is paying an R1 for those three.

Barrass/Yeo was the only opportunity to get something in. This is now vetoed.

Yeo resigned. Barrass has come out and said it’s bullshit. So we just need to build through the draft with what we have and go hard at free agents.

Waterman would comfortably get an R1, how ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

 

[kane249]

Who is dan const?

Schofield's media partner on his various podcasts

 

[Icanwalk]

How do you propose to upgrade your second pick?

You’re either trading a current player who has first round value.

Or, you are packaging your current and future second round picks to move up. Need to find a buyer.

Or you are trading out your future first round pick. Again you need to find a buyer, and get a fair price on such a trade. We all saw last year, it wasn’t easy to find a buyer for your future first round pick, inside the top 10.

I obviously haven't been clear enough. My fault for drawing in tangential threads. I simply threw in Travaglia as a hypothetical, in the instance there's a player we rate between our first and second pick. I'm not universally against splitting an early pick. It depends on the distribution of talent in the early stages of the draft. I do not buy the narrative that the 2022 draft was even through to the early teens. Wardlaw and Sheezel are a level above the rest. We were clearly concerned about the very large flight risk they each posed. I think we gave too much weighting to the go-home factor and picking local.

This year's draft might well be more even, in which case a split becomes more viable, but then there is less value for the buyer. At this stage, I would keep our first and take best mid available.

 

[Icanwalk]

No one is paying an R1 for those three.

Barrass/Yeo was the only opportunity to get something in. This is now vetoed.

Yeo resigned. Barrass has come out and said it’s bullshit. So we just need to build through the draft with what we have and go hard at free agents.

I agree. I meant they could be packaged with later picks to snatch a first. Although it is not inconceivable that Waterman could be worth a first rounder to a team like Collingwood or Melbourne

 

[Jumpoff Joey]

Do you want/need both?

If you had to pick one, which player would you prefer?

And is Bazzo back playing for the BEagles? How is he going?

I dont believe Bazzo is playing yet, still on the sidelines.

Do we need both, I'd say so because I dont think Jaimeson/HEdwards gives what we need from them moving into the future from KPP perspective.

I'd also say that there was reports Curtin could play as a HBF/Wing and even midfield? So I think of Curtin being like Justin Westhoff giving us another lever during game day if he comes on.

Others would know alot more than me. I am making opinion based on what I have read, heard.

Waterman would comfortably get an R1, how ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Waterman has been epic this season.

But lets be honest last year he was called tweener, added to any deal for steak knives and no one thought he was the second coming of Plugga-Waterman.

If I am opposition club, I would want to see more than 10 games before parting R1. Just my opinion.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

I certainly wouldn't be offering Kelly a big deal to stay after next season. I don't mind if he walks for free and we get a pick but I understand his family circumstances.

 

[Shueygod]

I dont believe Bazzo is playing yet, still on the sidelines.

Do we need both, I'd say so because I dont think Jaimeson/HEdwards gives what we need from them moving into the future from KPP perspective.

I'd also say that there was reports Curtin could play as a HBF/Wing and even midfield? So I think of Curtin being like Justin Westhoff giving us another lever during game day if he comes on.

Others would know alot more than me. I am making opinion based on what I have read, heard.



Waterman has been epic this season.

But lets be honest last year he was called tweener, added to any deal for steak knives and no one thought he was the second coming of Plugga-Waterman.

If I am opposition club, I would want to see more than 10 games before parting R1. Just my opinion.

Pick 10 was offered for Harrison Petty, Waterman would command a fair whack off this year alone.

 

[Patron]

Clubs starting to look pretty cooked.

Whilst there are some "possibles", excluding Harley and Hough, there's no real young kids looking the goods to lift us in the next couple years and become future leaders (Hewett the next best if he gets his body right).
Chesser and Ginbey other recent high picks have decreased in value since their draft day.

On the flip side our most consistent performers are Gov, Barrass, Yeo and Kelly - all at the twilight of their careers. We are likely to lose more than we gain still over the next couple years. We really need to hit the draft hard and bring in any value talent U23 we can.
Any FA's that improve our playing 22 or provide experience should be pursued also.

• English should be on that list, he might not be an amazing tap ruckman, but is still a star in his own right and a huge all round upgrade on Flynn/Williams. Getting him could mean we could trade a ruck on our list for some extra capital (maybe a 25-40 pick).
• We are beyond desperate for a distributor from the HBF line. Cumming could easily be our designated kicker, we should be into him hard.

If we were able to get those two then we would be bringing in enough senior talent to enable letting barrass go if a top 10 pick is on the cards.

 

[stallon]

100%. You can have twenty plodding Ginbeys and that will not help.

It's not about getting 20 Ginbeys, it's more about filling a different role like half back with elite talent without reaching for a player.
FOS + JJ vs Lalor +Travaglia for example

 

[MrKennedy17]

Haha people starting to awaken to Ginbey's very awkward and poor skills. I agree i dont even think we can stick him at half back. I do see a bit of Beau Waters

Beau Waters

Age

38

Ht

188cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

11.3

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

6.1

5star

T

2.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.6

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.6

4star

about him but he lacks skills. We need running defenders like Blakey or Wedden with their penetrating kicking.

Same as i have no idea why we want Dan Curtin. He does not want to play centre half back he considers himself a mid. We already have project at almost his size in Jai Culley who is a far better kick for goal than Curtin.

 

[Shueygod]

Clubs starting to look pretty cooked.

Whilst there are some "possibles", excluding Harley and Hough, there's no real young kids looking the goods to lift us in the next couple years and become future leaders (Hewett the next best if he gets his body right).
Chesser and Ginbey other recent high picks have decreased in value since their draft day.

On the flip side our most consistent performers are Gov, Barrass, Yeo and Kelly - all at the twilight of their careers. We are likely to lose more than we gain still over the next couple years. We really need to hit the draft hard and bring in any value talent U23 we can.
Any FA's that improve our playing 22 or provide experience should be pursued also.

• English should be on that list, he might not be an amazing tap ruckman, but is still a star in his own right and a huge all round upgrade on Flynn/Williams. Getting him could mean we could trade a ruck on our list for some extra capital (maybe a 25-40 pick).
• We are beyond desperate for a distributor from the HBF line. Cumming could easily be our designated kicker, we should be into him hard.

If we were able to get those two then we would be bringing in enough senior talent to enable letting barrass go if a top 10 pick is on the cards.

Name me the 8 better performing players from Ginbeys draft.

 

[stallon]

Same as i have no idea why we want Dan Curtin. He does not want to play centre half back he considers himself a mid. We already have project at almost his size in Jai Culley who is a far better kick for goal than Curtin.

I didnt realise kicking for goal was the only attribute needed to be a big bodied mid.

Curtin is a VERY different player to Culley

 

[PremiershipNo4]

I really do feel that if some of the players that are being talked down on here had a different head coach and a different team environment that they really might shine, jeez even Harley managed to look shit yesterday and we know that simply isn’t the case.
I actually believe our list is pretty good, we just need a new coach and some new energy/ideas.
Ginbey showed more in his 1st year than this one, he’s slowly been simpofied.
Let’s make the changes off the field and back the players in, with a firm hand on the whip of course.

 

[Avalor]

I really do feel that if some of the players that are being talked down on here had a different head coach and a different team environment that they really might shine, jeez even Harley managed to look shit yesterday and we know that simply isn’t the case.
I actually believe our list is pretty good, we just need a new coach and some new energy/ideas.
Ginbey showed more in his 1st year than this one, he’s slowly been simpofied.
Let’s make the changes off the field and back the players in, with a firm hand on the whip of course.

Agree, the number one problem is the coach, 100%.

 

[briztoon]

Name me the 8 better performing players from Ginbeys draft.

6 of the 8 players that went before him in the draft. Plus Hollands, Fletcher, Michalanney and Weddle.

They might not all be getting the same fantasy points or what ever metrics you are using to rate Ginbey, and some don’t get a game every week, but they all perform better in the different roles they play, have demonstrated better skills than Ginbey, and know how to actually play the game.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

If Barrass nets us 2 x 1st rounders you have to consider it. Like we are not winning a flag in the next 3 years so why have him here? sure him and gov are stopping us from losing games by 15+ goals but honestly just strip the list down. Barrass our only player with currency

The only reason Barras and McGovern have to do as much work as they do is because we can't stop Oppo ball movement and inside 50s. If your midfield and forward half pressure does its job, it takes pressure off the defence. Trade him to dogs for busslinger, Garcia and their first rounder.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Wooshaaaa]

He’s a fine player but we also have eyes, the bloke can not kick the football what so ever, he has zero composure and his best attribute is that he tries.

He’s a decent athlete, but a long way from being a good footballer.

Giving up Wardlaw or Sheezel with Ginbey being the main prize is bad.

We would be giving sheeezel or Wardlaw at the end of this year anyway. This would then result in drafting another 2 18yo anyway. Another preseason and ginbey/Hewett combo will pay itself off.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app