List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Nuffington Post]

Understand this might be his first senior game but Harley Reid only has 6 disposals in the VFL in the third quarter for Carlton


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[flamingEMBERS]

The most senior of the players who went out on the nightclub incident and to me was nowhere near the worst player on our list last year was essentially delisted from that point on.

Yes the club stuck with him and he is now the captain of the Wafl Eagles side. Yes the WAFL eagles side has been horrendous but Nelson has quite easily been the best player for the side this year and is as fit as ever and is leading from the front.

I would also ask if you have ever worked in a modern club environment. I'm not talking at AFL level here but with teens and young adults who are all a young group in the same field? You can't just tear kids apart these days. Even guys in their late 20's, they will just buck against it rather than knuckle down. As much as people don't like it they need to be led and fed positivity to get the best out of themselves. Long gone are the days where you destroy blokes at half time or after a match and get a good result long term. The coaching team loses the players.

Yes the players weren't fit enough last year and standards had slid and perhaps even the year before as well. I don't think anyone now is denying that. However there have been huge changes at the club and the club tried for even more footy staff personnel changes over the summer. We came out of the preseason the fittest i've seen the team in a long time. s**t they were still trying to shore up the recruiting department in March.

Shuey offered to step down as captain but was backed in by the club and the players themselves vote on who the captain should be. If the club came out and said sorry, we're vetoing your vote and installing someone else as captain how do you think that goes for club morale?

Nicnat being given a 2 year contract and redden not being given a contract for this year are probably the only two things I would have liked the club to handle differently. (internally) Redden would have been really useful this year and I certainly would have backed him in with his durability over others we kept. Also it basically came down to Shuey or Redden. How did we go the last time we essentially delisted sacked and delisted a club captain? Not very well. Also on keeping Nicnat with an ongoing issue with his Achilles it goes both ways.

Nicnat basically put every ounce of his soul into the game last year to see Kennedy sent off with a win and the achilles hasn't been right since. But lets look at that, it's something he has been managing for years and is likely in relation to his knee injuries. Kennedy was diagnosed with a degenerative knee condition in 2013/2014, yet won 2 (should have been 3) colemans after that point and became our greatest ever goal kicker. With injuries like this you don't know how long a player has left and secondly Nicnat gets paid the AFL ambassador money which is outside the salary and soft cap at 300k per year and is on basically minimum AFL salary for an established player above that. He is worth more around the club as a leader, teacher of a young ruck brigade and well and truly worth more from a revenue perspective. Also we don't have another player the AFL would pay on the list to be an ambassador for the game.

The McGovern and Gaff deals were the right thing at the time, the Yeo contract was the right decision at the time. The Tim Kelly trade was expensive and we were ****ed over by the BODE but it was the right call for a team going all in on a premiership. I still truly believe Geelong had no interest in trading him to us the year before. The club on the last day even caved and offered Geelong everything it asked for and was turned down.

What more do people want? This is at the very least no matter who you put in the roles another 3 years before we start to rise again. Or would you like to cripple the clubs future by trading for the now (if you can even get players to move and then they would be on inflated salaries plus the loss of draft capital) only to end up being a mid table team and having to have another rebuilt in 5 years time.

With the system that is in place now plus a tasmanian club coming in the club basically has to draft and develop perfectly plus get lucky on a few trades and free agents otherwise we won't be winning a flag. Academies, FS, more teams picking in each round of the draft plus every club doing their best to be at the height of professionalism means winning a flag for a WA team is nigh on impossible. We were damned lucky to win one when we did and then the AFL completely destroyed our game plan with rule changes and a group of family oriented blokes got pissed off during the first Covid hub for which we were given no end date. Literally the guinea pigs for a once in a lifetime event. At the end of that season a guy who probably had 1 more good year in him was moved on despite being well liked by the players because of it. You combine all this with a soft cap 30% lower than the club is used to spending on the football department (not accounting for inflation) and we literally have our hands tied behind our back.

The only other thing I would say we have ****ed up was in keeping Nisbett around. Vozzo should have been handed the reigns, maybe with Nisbett in the background for a year when he was ready. But Nisbett held on, Vozzo got rightly pissed, had some time off and came back in a less significant role before being poached later on.

The drafting hasn't been great but the picks haven't been great either. For most of those drafts and picks we were playing lucky dip and didn't get so lucky. But we did get lucky enough to trade in the right players and have a couple of late draft picks light it up and win us a premiership.

This will be the last time i respond to you on this, I literally have no-one on ignore but your posting is just a revolving cycle of shitting on the club with no solutions. Seriously come up with a viable solution or even close to one and I'll respect it and respond.

Agree on Nisbett. But doing both the Gaff and McGovern deals was wrong. We should have signed Gov and let Gaff go

 

[Evo47]

Heard that Georgiadis is back in WA after doing his knee last week and won’t be going back to SA. West coast a chance of nabbing him seasons end?

Sauce with that?

 

[eagles rule]

Agree on Nisbett. But doing both the Gaff and McGovern deals was wrong. We should have signed Gov and let Gaff go

Simmo was the driver behind persuading Gaff to stay ..ifircc

 

[RanaNaved]

Because history of every other AFL team ever to be top 2, and I dont have my head in the sand. Who are our 5-6 AA level players? (With another 4-5 in the conversation) Because that's where we need to be to win a flag.

In 3 years we have Oscar Allen at an AA level
with 2021 guys beginning to be the heavy lifters but not at their peak.
2024 draftees wont be ready until 2028-2029 and that's the base of the squad. Around that time we probably play a few elimination finals plus pick up a couple of players here and there every year to top it off gives us a realistic timetable of 2030-2031 as the best team in the comp.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one

 

[Tugga27]

Heard that Georgiadis is back in WA after doing his knee last week and won’t be going back to SA. West coast a chance of nabbing him seasons end?

Heard that he was seeing a surgeon in WA.
Didn't hear anything about him not returning to SA.

Where did you hear this?

Edit* I like him but reckon he would be a better fit at Freo.

 

[EagleEgo]

The quality of the player and the demand for that player determines the value of pick 1.

Not points.

There is no point to argue about that. It is a system. You can argue that it is not a good system but you cannot argue that it is not the system.
It is quite similar the money system we are using. If you earn 200k a year, you can use it buy a certain good and services. If a BMW is marketed at $70,000, you can argue about the car quality vs the price, but you still have to pay that $70,000 to buy. Or instead, you buy two Korean cars of $35,000 each. I have never heard of people calling the our money system is usless.
In saying that, the AFL point system is just a guide of the purchasing power of the currency of each club acquired. Clubs can still traded within rules to change the value of their currency.
In short, it is a guide. It is better than no guide. I would like to hear those positive idea of what a better system is.

 

[Avalor]

Xavier Walsh, remember the name. EP colts player in his 1st game of the year is tearing the game apart. Tall left footer playing FF, sticky hands - recruiters would be salivating.

 

[StateOE]

There is no point to argue about that. It is a system. You can argue that it is not a good system but you cannot argue that it is not the system.
It is quite similar the money system we are using. If you earn 200k a year, you can use it buy a certain good and services. If a BMW is marketed at $70,000, you can argue about the car quality vs the price, but you still have to pay that $70,000 to buy. Or instead, you buy two Korean cars of $35,000 each. I have never heard of people calling the our money system is usless.
In saying that, the AFL point system is just a guide of the purchasing power of the currency of each club acquired. Clubs can still traded within rules to change the value of their currency.
In short, it is a guide. It is better than no guide. I would like to hear those positive idea of what a better system is.

Terrible analogy.

The market is supply and demand.
If everyone wants a limited edition bmw. Its worth more than 70k over a regular 70k bmw.
You normally could get a discount pre covid. Now you cant. Supply and demand dictates price.

 

[RanaNaved]

Understand this might be his first senior game but Harley Reid only has 6 disposals in the VFL in the third quarter for Carlton


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

2nd rounder at best

 

[ziad]

Heard that he was seeing a surgeon in WA.
Didn't hear anything about him not returning to SA.

Where did you hear this?

Edit* I like him but reckon he would be a better fit at Freo.

Interesting player that didn't seem to fit out priority needs, does his knee and suddenly looks attractive.

 

[RanaNaved]

In all seriousness, Reid has struggled to get in to the game. Got more involved when moved to half back though.

He reminds me a little bit of Elijah Hewett, bounces around like a cat on a hot tin roof. He'll be a very good player, just not his day today.

Sam Darcy has huge potential, and Busslinger was solid.

 

[RanaNaved]

And Tom De Koning

12

Tom De Koning

Age

25

Ht

201cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

CL

0.5

2star

HO

1.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

1.5

5star

is very overrated by a lot of people

 

[EagleEgo]

Terrible analogy.

The market is supply and demand.
If everyone wants a limited edition bmw. Its worth more than 70k over a regular 70k bmw.
You normally could get a discount pre covid. Now you cant. Supply and demand dictates price.

Supply and demand play a part in both systems. That is the reason why clubs offer more to get the 2023‘s 3000 point number 1 pick.
As on the BMW example, it is priced at $70,000, then it is $70,000 at that instant.
Not too many systems are the same in this real world (probably i can argue NONE are the same), but one has to open their mind to appreciate the difference and similarity in order reason correctly.
My advice to you is to think in the direction of "medium of exchange" and nothing else.

 

[Obeanie1]

There is no point to argue about that. It is a system. You can argue that it is not a good system but you cannot argue that it is not the system.
It is quite similar the money system we are using. If you earn 200k a year, you can use it buy a certain good and services. If a BMW is marketed at $70,000, you can argue about the car quality vs the price, but you still have to pay that $70,000 to buy. Or instead, you buy two Korean cars of $35,000 each. I have never heard of people calling the our money system is usless.
In saying that, the AFL point system is just a guide of the purchasing power of the currency of each club acquired. Clubs can still traded within rules to change the value of their currency.
In short, it is a guide. It is better than no guide. I would like to hear those positive idea of what a better system is.

The value of pick 1 in trade terms changes with the quality of the top players available.

Not arguing about the system at all. But the points system has no influence on the trade value of pick 1. Clubs dont trade for pick 1 for points, they trade for the option to pick who they consider the best player

Points only matter when clubs are paying for a father son or academy pick up and they match bids.

If there was no standout at pick 1 then pick 1s trade value falls. If there is a once in a generation absolute standout gun, then the value of pick 1 in trade terms increases.

Supply and demand determines value.

There is only 1 pick 1. The demand for that pick varies each draft.

 

[Monocle]

Xavier Walsh, remember the name. EP colts player in his 1st game of the year is tearing the game apart. Tall left footer playing FF, sticky hands - recruiters would be salivating.

Well spotted , I agree he is one to track closely, there is a lot to like about him and his game.

 

[EagleEgo]

The value of pick 1 in trade terms changes with the quality of the top players available.

Not arguing about the system at all. But the points system has no influence on the trade value of pick 1. Clubs dont trade for pick 1 for points, they trade for the option to pick who they consider the best player

Points only matter when clubs are paying for a father son or academy pick up and they match bids.

If there was no standout at pick 1 then pick 1s trade value falls. If there is a once in a generation absolute standout gun, then the value of pick 1 in trade terms increases.

Supply and demand determines value.

There is only 1 pick 1. The demand for that pick varies each draft.

No disagreement on that but my original post was just to state the existing system as guided by AFL. What is wrong with that?

 

[Wormkilla]

What’s going on with Nic Nat? Nothing. He’s reached new lows giving Perth Now updates on his baby’s crapping habits. Literally. He’s not coming back. How about retiring and opening up his spot on the list for a kid? Just embarrassing now. Why we gave him 2 more years is irresponsible list management. There’s only so many Nic Nat dolls that can be sold.

Nic Naita-POO-I! Star Eagle’s hilarious TMI baby admission

West Coast star Nic Naitanui has made a hilarious admission while opening up on life as a new dad, but is it too much information?

www.perthnow.com.au

 

[DanWCE]

What’s going on with Nic Nat? Nothing. He’s reached new lows giving Perth Now updates on his baby’s crapping habits. Literally. He’s not coming back. How about retiring and opening up his spot on the list for a kid? Just embarrassing now. Why we gave him 2 more years is irresponsible list management. There’s only so many Nic Nat dolls that can be sold.

Nic Naita-POO-I! Star Eagle’s hilarious TMI baby admission

West Coast star Nic Naitanui has made a hilarious admission while opening up on life as a new dad, but is it too much information?

www.perthnow.com.au

It's a snippet from the Coast to Coast podcast floggo

 

[Keys]

It's a snippet from the Coast to Coast podcast floggo

Where, among other things he said he’s been arriving at the club by 6.00am to do his rehab

But yeah, he’s doing nothing

 

[Chump Change]

The point system is there so the AFL has a way of coming up with compensation for FS etc. At the moment it doesn't reflect reality because no club will trade out a top pick for multiple low picks.

So potentially it needs to be recalibrated to bring it closer to reality.
Or they need to think through the FS and Academy systems.

In the last two seasons we've seen clubs cobble together a number a shit picks and walk away with the best player in the pool.

 

[bombard]

BigFloggo

 

[Farang83150]

Its a Damian Barrett alias account!

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Firstly, “floggo”, I said you weren’t promoting Martin this early in his draft year. Those posts are from closer to the draft.

Secondly, “floggo”, you quoted pretty selectively from at least one of those posts..

What you wrote is utterly irrelevant. You're the one quoting me, and "at the time" refers to the draft and "standout prospects" aligns with what I said prior to the draft. You're the one pretending to know what I thought at the time and selectively quoting me to make it align with your gag routine. You could have used the dozens of posts where I state Martin is the most exciting prospect in the draft, or maybe glanced at the multiple posts where I'm critical of Melbourne not doing interviews with Martin.

 

[JackOutback]

Because history of every other AFL team ever to be top 2, and I dont have my head in the sand. Who are our 5-6 AA level players? (With another 4-5 in the conversation) Because that's where we need to be to win a flag.

In 3 years we have Oscar Allen at an AA level
with 2021 guys beginning to be the heavy lifters but not at their peak.
2024 draftees wont be ready until 2028-2029 and that's the base of the squad. Around that time we probably play a few elimination finals plus pick up a couple of players here and there every year to top it off gives us a realistic timetable of 2030-2031 as the best team in the comp.

Why would the 2024 draftees be the base of the squad and not Allen, Ginbey, Hewitt, Chesser, Long, Bazzo and Hough? I would be expecting to ‘pick up a few elimination final wins’ we’ll before 2028/29 if our drafting has been as astute as we hope. If they all flop, then sure, success gets pushed further away.