List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R) Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Current contract status (Updated 18/10/24) : Total 39 Players -...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[kane249]

Kids that want to stay home should be made ineligible to be drafted and be told to re nominate the following year ..


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I'd say a 2-3 year ban and make them play local footy if they don't want to meet the expectations of a national comp.

 

[Big_Birdy]

D

Disagree with your statement here.

Each of these players has to be considered in the context of their individual circumstances.

Bazzo lost his mother, who was his sole surviving parent a few months ago. Hardly expect him to be at the top his game.

Williams showed promise last year in a shocking Beagles outfit which is another part of the problem. Then had his spleen busted in a training incident and hasn’t played since.

Chesser - who knows where he was at to begin with. There is still time to show that he has something but he is beginning to look like an O’Brien special - one of those massive recruiting blunders like Brander, Ainsworth, Partington, Karpany, XON, Foley this list could go with a little research.

Hough does seem to have regressed this year. He has put on size though and showed a little in the disaster on the weekend.

It is very difficult for young players to show their abilities when you are getting flogged. This effect ends up snowballing, especially after a couple of injuries.

This is something which time and time again people don't seem to understand. Then teams jump from bottom 4 to just missing finals or even Grand Finals and everyone is shocked.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Reid is from Tongala. If we were ever going to convince a Vic player ti stay in the West. This is the best case.

Plenty of flights for the family and friends to visit.

VFL list managers are the danger but Draft Reid and go from there.

The only way I'm trading the Reid pick is if a club offers up multiple picks in the top 7 and a third in top 15-20. If clubs want him so bad then stump up the assets

 

[ziad]

It is very difficult for young players to show their abilities when you are getting flogged. This effect ends up snowballing, especially after a couple of injuries.

This is something which time and time again people don't seem to understand. Then teams jump from bottom 4 to just missing finals or even Grand Finals and everyone is shocked.

This is so particularly if the are short on tallent.

 

[Big_Birdy]

This is so particularly if the are short on tallent.

Well with around 20 players on the injury list we have no choice but to send out the bottom players on the list. As you say, they look even worse.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Any thoughts on James Harmes

22

James Harmes

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.4

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

10.0

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

2.4

4star

D

16.3

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

8.9

4star

M

2.9

3star

T

1.6

3star

CL

1.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

CL

0.2

2star

? Can't crack that dees midfield and has shown a bit in the past. Is 27 years old and a good stop gap for a developing midfield to take load off the youngsters.

Id be keen. Hard nosed player with a strong body. Improves us and another that comes from a winning culture.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

It’s a shame clubs can only trade 1 draft in advance. It would be really interesting to see how man future first rounders a club would be willing to give for Reid

 

[Chris_6678]

Delisted trio among first group to nominate for mid-season draft

With the mid-season draft just over a week away, ex-AFL players are among the first group to nominate

www.afl.com.au

Maric one of 20 to nominate for an 18th month contract.

 

[DanWCE]

To open up a different angle of discussion, what's the chances of some players requesting a trade out of the club this year?

There's not much currency in our side but I do wonder if someone like Duggan, with a year to run on his contract, might consider his future and move back to Melbourne before it's time to settle down and have children.

Whether it's a mentoring role or one last crack at a flag, I'm not sure if there's a lure for him. We seem to rate him highly and I thought he played well the week prior when in the Captaincy role. What's his value and how is he viewed externally?

I can't make an argument for many of the teams thereabouts to finals opening up a spot for him but a team like the Roos might.

This is not a fire sale push all the players out discussion, but more of a who might surprise us and ask to move on discussion.

 

[Goroyals22]

To open up a different angle of discussion, what's the chances of some players requesting a trade out of the club this year?

There's not much currency in our side but I do wonder if someone like Duggan, with a year to run on his contract, might consider his future and move back to Melbourne before it's time to settle down and have children.

Whether it's a mentoring role or one last crack at a flag, I'm not sure if there's a lure for him. We seem to rate him highly and I thought he played well the week prior when in the Captaincy role. What's his value and how is he viewed externally?

I can't make an argument for many of the teams thereabouts to finals opening up a spot for him but a team like the Roos might.

This is not a fire sale push all the players out discussion, but more of a who might surprise us and ask to move on discussion.

I’d drive Duggan to the airport and even pack him a polony sandwich with tomato sauce for the flight


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[Chris_6678]

To open up a different angle of discussion, what's the chances of some players requesting a trade out of the club this year?

There's not much currency in our side but I do wonder if someone like Duggan, with a year to run on his contract, might consider his future and move back to Melbourne before it's time to settle down and have children.

Whether it's a mentoring role or one last crack at a flag, I'm not sure if there's a lure for him. We seem to rate him highly and I thought he played well the week prior when in the Captaincy role. What's his value and how is he viewed externally?

I can't make an argument for many of the teams thereabouts to finals opening up a spot for him but a team like the Roos might.

This is not a fire sale push all the players out discussion, but more of a who might surprise us and ask to move on discussion.

His mrs doesnt want to leave perth so doubt thats an option.

 

[DanWCE]

His mrs doesnt want to leave perth so doubt thats an option.

Did he meet her here?

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

On Friday last week, Monocle , Eastcoasteagle and I managed to catch up at the rooftop at QT on a sunny and warm afternoon in Perth. Or as Monocle called it, “Beers, Bulls1t and Bulletpoints”.

Last September I managed a catch up with EastCoast in Melbourne but it has been pre Covid since the three of us had a chance to meet and talk draft sh1t.



I should have remembered MacBeth – Shakespeare pretty much predicted the result on Sunday.
When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
When the hurly-burly's done, When the battle's lost and won.

After Sunday, the battle for bottom spot has been won/lost (depend how you look at it) and the hurly-burly is done.

To put the catch up in context, Monocle had just completed the mid season Bigfooty mock draft, Eastcoast had realised Perth in May is not like Melbourne (sunshine and mid 20’s verses him wearing a beanie, scarf and gloves on the Monday in Melbourne), we are heading into the end of May expecting pick 1 in the midseason draft and dreaming of winning the HR Cup come end of August.

Reality is that we have a long way to go in 2023 to be calling out draftee names we fall in love with. That said, the draft looks to be strong and one that will suit us. So we discussed early insights and not to be gospel since there will be changes come November. The Champs will be very important this year as will the end of year WAFL/SANFL/VFL opportunities.

 

[GrumpyGoron]

So many seem to be of the belief that we are just going to force players out like a JD or Nic Nat, but let's just be honest and acknowledge there's no way that's going to happen. I don't even think Gaff will end up leaving, yet I see Shuey leaving (who honestly is the one that's probably the most reliable of the lot).

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Some shared views on the last 2 drafts:-

• Happy with the split of pick 2 and the haul that was our 2022 draft class (including Culley).
• Inside word from Melbourne was a resounding reluctance of both Sheezel and Wardlaw to go interstate. ECE and Monocle heard it many times outside of the usual channels.
• Hewett and Ginbey look the goods.
• Culley, Burgiel and Long were both really good value picks and we have restocked our future midfield.
• Good to end up with and extra R2 and R3 this year but we need Port to drop off.
• Bazzo and Barnett were good picks. Jury still out with J Williams as he is only 6 months older than Barnett and will be happy giving him another year considering his spleen injury.
• Barnett is both a KPP and a second ruck. We need to get that decided in the next 18 months. The view is that he is more likely the CHF or CHB.
• We do not have enough players who can win one-on-one contests. Shuey, Yeo and NicNat were the 3 players ones we had and not surprising how crap we are with these 3 amigos not playing.
• Happy enough with the 2021 draft but concerned about Chesser in his inability to stay fit, he does not win consistently his own ball and he is not showing enough midfield attributes. So yet another first round pick spent on the quintessential Pieman picks (athlete over hard nut).

The clear out

Come year end, we expect the list turnover the be significant with 9 players going. Time to farewell our 3 oldies meaning we do a deal with NicNat to retire alongside Hurn and Chingy.

West, Clark, Foley, XON, Trew and Winder should be moved one. Move SPS and J Williams to the rookie list. Witherden and Bailey Williams to stay on the main list.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

So what about looking to the future with the MSD and the end of year draft.

• The mid season draft is not great this year – it is offering prospects more like Connor West than Jai Culley.
• Only taking one player in the MSD feels fine. Take 2 players if it is for our Beagles team and on a 6 month deal (provided anyone from WAFL can play for WAFL Eagles) OR if the Pieman has transformed into Stephen Wells and has identified the next Tom Stewart.
• We desperately need to start prioritising mids that can win their own ball. Having seen Rowell tear us another hole, the Pieman has to change, and we need to get the players he has avoided (the private school athlete with leadership potential is all well and good but gone are the days when NicNat can compensate). They also need to be able to consistently win one-on-one contests.
• The ruck crew of B Williams, Jamieson and Barnett all feel like second ruck options and we need to think how we can get Mitch Edwards with a second first round pick.
• Livingstone is unlikely at the current rate to make it past pick 40. We need to ask the AFL for priority access with the ability to place both he and Collard straight onto our list with our 4th and 5th round picks (like the Suns were given).
• The top 20 is far from set. There will be another 6 to 10 prospects that emerge over the next 4 months that will come into first round consideration. This always happens, especially with guys that have grown a lot. Clay Hall has come from nowhere already.
• The quality of the draft is good. Loads of running defenders, talls, and position players. If you want a balanced mids, you will need to get in early and pony up earlier than their form would suggest.
• Harley Reid is special and close behind him has been the form of McKercher. We should not be put off from the future Tassie team if we get pick 2.
• If we have multiple first rounders (ie priority pick or we sell off pick 1 for a massive deal), we should be going to Gold Coast and making a deal. “Suns - you can get your premium from selling your R1 pick elsewhere but we will be calling out your 3 academy boys at each chance we have. Walters, Reid and Rogers will be bid in the first round and as early as possible. You will likely take a significant deficit into 2023. Alternatively, we can carry picks into the draft for you and we will pay fair compensation for pick 6/7 plus deliver more picks/points into 2024 for you. How would you like to see us operate?” In an ideal world, somehow we get pick 6/7, and one of their R2 picks.
• We should go to the AFL for a priority pick. Taking Livingstone early is one part but we should at least ask for a pick after our first pick or at least one before the teams who make finals pick. In all reality, the second of the requests is still dreaming. That would mean we go in with picks 1, 8, (via Suns), 11 (priority), 20 and Livingstone. Use the majority of 34, 37, 50, 58 and future R3 and R4 on Suns trade.
• Alternatively we sell the Reid pick to GWS, and go to the draft with 4 (GWS), 6 (Tigers), 8 (Suns), 11 (priority), 20 and Livingstone plus a future R2 from GWS.
• Why Livingstone? He is playing good football, but he has a tough edge top him that we so desperately lack. Will be an interesting watch in the champs.

In closing, @Eastcoasteagles is a private school bayside lad. If he is looking at Perth and ready to relocate, surely he can talk to the snotty nose bayside dragons Dragons and get them toughened up to be moving. To do so, we think the interstate clubs need to toughen up and come with a combined harder edge at just picking the players with the AFL being called out on lack of integrity in compensation.


Recapping what Monocle did in the mock, he took
2 - Colby McKercher mid
23 – Livingston KPF/ruck
34 – Will Brown Mid
39 – Clay Hall mid
51 – Arie Schoenmaker KPD
56 – Joe Pike ruck

That mix felt good

 

[dinnaz]

I thought Obeanie1 was plugged into the matrix, but the way that the Carlton supporters overrate their team year in year out never ceases to amaze.

-M McGovern, Z Fisher and J Martin for #1
-P Cripps for S Darcy & Serong

 

[briztoon]

XON -> Dev
West -> Sheldrick
Clark -> Sharpe
Winder -> Georgiades
Foley -> DGB

All I’ll say is Gold Coast are crying out for fast skilful winger, that is defensively accountable.

And Sharp is barely performing, starting on the bench, at VFL.

Stewie Dew’s dog house can be a cold place.

 

[Chris_6678]

Did he meet her here?

Yep she is from Perth.

 

[TerryFilk]

One thing I think we squandered this off season was rushing to give Barrass a huge contract, I’m in no ways saying he’s not a good or important player but I don’t see him being good still when we’re next contending

I think Sydney would’ve paid a kings ransom for him this off season, they were reportedly very interested in him and even if they didn’t and we didn’t extend him, we would’ve gotten a great compo pick for him as well, I think it would be after our first this year but I could be wrong.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

One thing I think we squandered this off season was rushing to give Barrass a huge contract, I’m in no ways saying he’s not a good or important player but I don’t see him being good still when we’re next contending

I think Sydney would’ve paid a kings ransom for him this off season, they were reportedly very interested in him and even if they didn’t and we didn’t extend him, we would’ve gotten a great compo pick for him as well, I think it would be after our first this year but I could be wrong.

That was December 2021.

 

[FKASC]

Sometimes you just have to let the players go home but you make sure you get value from them. Players from all teams will ask for a trade home once in a while but that doesn’t have to be inherently bad.

Look at Cerra. Overrated Bryce Gibbs clone, in exchange for Jye Amiss who will probably lead their forwardline for the next decade. Fills a much greater need ultimately. As long as you don’t let them leave for nothing, there’s gains to be made by letting players go.

Better than letting fear take over you and picking a worse player who might not even end up making it.

 

[TerryFilk]

That was December 2021.

You’re right, but I meant extending him early anyway. Would’ve liked to wait until the end of 2022 to assess our options.

 

[DanWCE]

Sometimes you just have to let the players go home but you make sure you get value from them. Players from all teams will ask for a trade home once in a while but that doesn’t have to be inherently bad.

Look at Cerra. Overrated Bryce Gibbs clone, in exchange for Jye Amiss who will probably lead their forwardline for the next decade. Fills a much greater need ultimately. As long as you don’t let them leave for nothing, there’s gains to be made by letting players go.

Better than letting fear take over you and picking a worse player who might not even end up making it.

Freo have an innate ability of landing on their feet when players leave their club. Feathers has done alright by spruiking in the media just how critical each player is to their team.

 

[FKASC]

Freo have an innate ability of landing on their feet when players leave their club. Feathers has done alright by spruiking in the media just how critical each player is to their team.

I’ve said it before when people rave about our track record for retaining players - sometimes that shouldn’t be considered an inherently good thing.

Sometimes retaining your players is detrimental to your list management, and sometimes refusing to retain them opens up a bunch of opportunities.