List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[SumaGodCoach]

Reminder

View attachment 1703232

Perhaps when commentators refer to players as laconic it's because they can trace their lineage all the way back to ancient Greece.

 

[FKASC]

Perhaps when commentators refer to players as laconic it's because they can trace their lineage all the way back to ancient Greece.

Kouta the OG laconic

 

[shoutsatclouds]

To quote a recent interview, Fagan said

“I am reviewing
The situation
Could this Deven be included in my side
……..”

I think he was written up by Lionel Bart

"you've got to pick a pocket or two..."

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Haven't forgotten about this, just been working.

Agree, he [Reid] does appear quite laconic at times, which I suspect (presume) is as much a case of arrogance and disdain towards those trying to mark him and that he is always surveying where the space is going to open up. There is a degree of FIGJAM there, but when you have so much talent it becomes beneficial to have a bit of swagger anyway.

Not too concerned about his disposal numbers as he has spent a lot of time up forward and down back during matches which skews them down. When given priority as a midfielder he accumulates fine - in the recent Academy vs Port SANFL match he had 21 disposals, 6 marks, 7 clearances and a goal from three-quarters of play.

For comparison, Oliver averaged 24 disposals in his draft year of 2015.

Another factor (albeit to a lesser degree) for Reid's lower disposal count is the case of every time he goes onball now against his age group he is being heavily tagged as well.


Rowell and Oliver are see-ball, get-ball specialists. They hunt at stoppage, bulldozing their way through opponents to take possession in tight and quickly offload to team-mates. Stoppage to stoppage, that is what they do - and they do it exceptionally well. Make contact, outbody, take ball, quick hands.

What makes Reid so impressive is that he rarely seems to need to react to where the ball is going - because he so often has already got into the right position before it arrives, taking possession on the move and then is off to the races.

It matters little right now, as he remains far from the finished article and still has a lot to work upon, notably improving his tank.

Rowell in particular, was far more advanced as a stoppage player overall in his draft year of 2019 than what Reid is today. Reid on draft day will comparatively be arriving on a lower foundation, but with a much, much higher development ceiling.

As he builds and the pieces come together, that instinctive stoppage reading will translate into the extra split-second of time to take possession or an additional step of separation to avoid being tackled in key moments of big matches.


Depending on how rapidly his endurance can improve, the expected development curve of Reid will fall in one of three ways:

1. Petracca - delayed impact both forward and midfield; improvements in conditioning lead to a breakout after an underwhelming start.
2. D.Martin - instant impact up forward, but midfield impact delayed until condition improves.
3. Judd - instant impact both forward and into the midfield when placed there.

Now that is not at all to say he will be the equal of the players listed above by any means - they are just listed as parables of how he could be expected to develop over multiple seasons.


Ether way, he has all the tools to become a very, very good player regardless.

Reid also has versatility, as he can play in every 3rd. Rowell and Oliver don't.
If we drafted him, we don't necessarily need him to be a full time midfielder. He's a match winner, need a goal put him forward, defending a game put him at stoppages or down back.

 

[Ishmael_]

Perhaps when commentators refer to players as laconic it's because they can trace their lineage all the way back to ancient Greece.

'Reminds me of Greg DiLacedaemonico back in the day. The man had a killer right foot, beautiful kick.

Couldn't get a word out of him though.'

 

[JackOutback]

Reminder

View attachment 1703232

Thank you, now someone send this to the commentators.

The word people are usually looking for is languid. Or lackadaisical if you don’t mind sounding like a character out of Mary Poppins.

 

[FKASC]

Harry Laconic Jr

 

[TerryFilk]

Isn't it FAR too early to tell?

Sure, no one knows how things are going to play out but I feel very confident in saying Wardlaw and Humphrey will be significantly better than Ginbey and Hewett

 

[TerryFilk]

The injury concerns over both of them wouldn’t have been an issue? Particularly just a year after we drafted Chesser in the first round?

A concern? As if we don’t cater to washed senior players who are injured all the time as it is

I doubt that was even a factor

 

[TerryFilk]

I don’t think anyone is obsessed with quantity over quality. I think most in here rated Sheezel and Warlaw higher than Ginbey.

We also know they didn’t want to leave Melbourne so it would have been a great result for the club in 12 months time when still sitting bottom 5 and George nominates Essendon his club of choice for his next contract. The club he grew up supporting and made no secret of hoping he would slide to in the draft.

You have been banging on about this now since trade week Terry and you still fail to take into consideration the fact that they didn’t want to join the club. Time to move on.

Yeah mate Humphrey really didn’t want to leave Melbourne, he has only extended for 4 more years at the ****ing Suns!

 

[CountryLad]

Yeah mate Humphrey really didn’t want to leave Melbourne, he has only extended for 4 more years at the ******* Suns!

Didn’t say Humphrey. Said Wardlaw and can throw Sheezle in the same group.

As for saying that we should have taken Humphrey at pick 2 rather than Ginbey and Hewett you’re going way to early to call that our recruitment team got that wrong. I’ll happily sit on the fence for a few seasons before making bold calls about that.

 

[Monsterdarlz]

Haven't forgotten about this, just been working.

Agree, he [Reid] does appear quite laconic at times, which I suspect (presume) is as much a case of arrogance and disdain towards those trying to mark him and that he is always surveying where the space is going to open up. There is a degree of FIGJAM there, but when you have so much talent it becomes beneficial to have a bit of swagger anyway.

Not too concerned about his disposal numbers as he has spent a lot of time up forward and down back during matches which skews them down. When given priority as a midfielder he accumulates fine - in the recent Academy vs Port SANFL match he had 21 disposals, 6 marks, 7 clearances and a goal from three-quarters of play.

For comparison, Oliver averaged 24 disposals in his draft year of 2015.

Another factor (albeit to a lesser degree) for Reid's lower disposal count is the case of every time he goes onball now against his age group he is being heavily tagged as well.


Rowell and Oliver are see-ball, get-ball specialists. They hunt at stoppage, bulldozing their way through opponents to take possession in tight and quickly offload to team-mates. Stoppage to stoppage, that is what they do - and they do it exceptionally well. Make contact, outbody, take ball, quick hands.

What makes Reid so impressive is that he rarely seems to need to react to where the ball is going - because he so often has already got into the right position before it arrives, taking possession on the move and then is off to the races.

It matters little right now, as he remains far from the finished article and still has a lot to work upon, notably improving his tank.

Rowell in particular, was far more advanced as a stoppage player overall in his draft year of 2019 than what Reid is today. Reid on draft day will comparatively be arriving on a lower foundation, but with a much, much higher development ceiling.

As he builds and the pieces come together, that instinctive stoppage reading will translate into the extra split-second of time to take possession or an additional step of separation to avoid being tackled in key moments of big matches.


Depending on how rapidly his endurance can improve, the expected development curve of Reid will fall in one of three ways:

1. Petracca - delayed impact both forward and midfield; improvements in conditioning lead to a breakout after an underwhelming start.
2. D.Martin - instant impact up forward, but midfield impact delayed until condition improves.
3. Judd - instant impact both forward and into the midfield when placed there.

Now that is not at all to say he will be the equal of the players listed above by any means - they are just listed as parables of how he could be expected to develop over multiple seasons.


Ether way, he has all the tools to become a very, very good player regardless.

Reid’s stoppage craft reminds me of pendles in a way just a step ahead almost telepathic when he gets it

 

[new breed]

Cripps has signed , probably good leadership and support for a young squad .
IF it wasn't for the ankle injury he could probably play for another three seasons ....

 

[CountryLad]

Yeah mate Humphrey really didn’t want to leave Melbourne, he has only extended for 4 more years at the ******* Suns!

I’ll actually go as far as to say Ginbey has had a better first year than Humphrey to date. We haven’t seen much of Hewett but if you were a glass half full type which I know your not then the deal still has upside.

Secondly I can’t think of anyone that had Humphrey ranked number 2 on draft boards and maybe some had him as high as 5, most draft watchers had Humphrey ranked between 5-10. Most of the concerns over him surrounded his goal kicking which currently sits at 35% at AfL level(below Average).His mental health was also a concern he had openly talked about his battles with depression.

The club would have been reaching to take a bloke rated my most between pick 5-10 at pick 2. I do hope Humphrey has a good career he’s seems a great young fella.

Calling out our recruiting team as a failure because we should have taken Humphrey over Ginbey and Hewett at this stage of the player’s careers is a complete over reaction.

 

[ziad]

I’ll actually go as far as to say Ginbey has had a better first year than Humphrey to date. We haven’t seen much of Hewett but if you were a glass half full type which I know your not then the deal still has upside.

Secondly I can’t think of anyone that had Humphrey ranked number 2 on draft boards and maybe some had him as high as 5, most draft watchers had Humphrey ranked between 5-10. Most of the concerns over him surrounded his goal kicking which currently sits at 35% at AfL level(below Average).His mental health was also a concern he had openly talked about his battles with depression.

The club would have been reaching to take a bloke rated my most between pick 5-10 at pick 2. I do hope Humphrey has a good career he’s seems a great young fella.

Calling out our recruiting team as a failure because we should have taken Humphrey over Ginbey and Hewett at this stage of the player’s careers is a complete over reaction.

Ginbey has demonstrated he can contribute at the AFL level. He has also demoinstrated his limitations - lack of explosive pace, kicking and polish generally. Could be a rich mans Ro Jones in a good midfdield. Valuable.

 

[CountryLad]

Ginbey has demonstrated he can contribute at the AFL level. He has also demoinstrated his limitations - lack of explosive pace, kicking and polish generally. Could be a rich mans Ro Jones in a good midfdield. Valuable.

Some you blokes go early…. Kid has played 11 games in the worst side in the competition and played pretty well but projects as a “rich man’s Rowan Jones in a good midfield”

 

[squashface]

Can guarantee that had we not drafted Ginbey and he was having the exact same season that he's having now for another club then the same people complaining about drafting him would be complaining about not drafting him.

 

[Shueygod]

Ginbey has demonstrated he can contribute at the AFL level. He has also demoinstrated his limitations - lack of explosive pace, kicking and polish generally. Could be a rich mans Ro Jones in a good midfdield. Valuable.

Where does lack of explosive pace come from? His 20m was very explosive.

 

[Farang83150]

Can guarantee that had we not drafted Ginbey and he was having the exact same season that he's having now for another club then the same people complaining about drafting him would be complaining about not drafting him.

100% correct.

 

[Dylan82]

Ginbey has demonstrated he can contribute at the AFL level. He has also demoinstrated his limitations - lack of explosive pace, kicking and polish generally. Could be a rich mans Ro Jones in a good midfdield. Valuable.

You are clearly seeing something very different to what I have been then.





Don't forget he is still 18, has been been used as our primary defensive midfielder with very little support and has been beaten into a pulp through the season.

His tackling ability alone means that at worst he will provide an upgraded Redden-type in future.


Combine results and preseason training both highlighted his athleticism which run counter to the claim that he lacks pace - it could just be that he's just tired and sore and is probably in need of a rest.

P.Cripps, Oliver and Wines could be described in much the same way - yet we know they are very effective stoppage players due to their strength, positioning and ability to gather and dispose by hand on both sides very quickly.

It's still very early, but so far Ginbey has demonstrated that he has the potential to follow a similar trajectory.

 

[briztoon]

And who would North have taken at pick 1?

According to itk posters on the North board, they would have bid on Ashcroft at 1, then drafted Sheezel at 2.

 

[briztoon]

I’ll actually go as far as to say Ginbey has had a better first year than Humphrey to date. We haven’t seen much of Hewett but if you were a glass half full type which I know your not then the deal still has upside.

Secondly I can’t think of anyone that had Humphrey ranked number 2 on draft boards and maybe some had him as high as 5, most draft watchers had Humphrey ranked between 5-10. Most of the concerns over him surrounded his goal kicking which currently sits at 35% at AfL level(below Average).His mental health was also a concern he had openly talked about his battles with depression.

The club would have been reaching to take a bloke rated my most between pick 5-10 at pick 2. I do hope Humphrey has a good career he’s seems a great young fella.

Calling out our recruiting team as a failure because we should have taken Humphrey over Ginbey and Hewett at this stage of the player’s careers is a complete over reaction.

A lot of clubs have draft functions. Reportedly North had Humphrey at 4 on their board. Sheezel at 1.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

According to itk posters on the North board, they would have bid on Ashcroft at 1, then drafted Sheezel at 2.

Yes, I keep asking our worm killing friend who insists we were stupid to miss out on Sheezel if that would have been the case. For some reason he’s not keen to answer.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

You are clearly seeing something very different to what I have been then.


View attachment 1703360


Don't forget he is still 18, has been been used as our primary defensive midfielder with very little support and has been beaten into a pulp through the season.

His tackling ability alone means that at worst he will provide an upgraded Redden-type in future.


Combine results and preseason training both highlighted his athleticism which run counter to the claim that he lacks pace - it could just be that he's just tired and sore and is probably in need of a rest.

P.Cripps, Oliver and Wines could be described in much the same way - yet we know they are very effective stoppage players due to their strength, positioning and ability to gather and dispose by hand on both sides very quickly.

It's still very early, but so far Ginbey has demonstrated that he has the potential to follow a similar trajectory.

Ziad famously only sees what he wants to see, regardless of what’s actually in front of him.

 

[WCE_phil]

WCE would have drafted Clark at 2 anyway so it's completely irrelevant. Geelong were very good with miscommunication, we genuinely thought they would draft Busslinger and the Eagles would get Clark at 9 and then Ginbey at 14. Up until Essendon showed strong interest which came out the night before / morning of the draft my thoughts were that Hewett would slide to WCE at pick 21.

Hewett was seen as much of a flight risk as any of the Victorians.