List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Bacchus]

Got to say, some of the proposed trades for Barrass were ott.

If Sydney were trading for Barrass, my opinion is their first round pick would be sufficient.


As for Sydney’s academy prospects for this year, they don’t appear to have any high kids. The best looks to be Indi Kirk, who is an over ager, and probably a late pick or rookie pick.

So you just hand over your reigning b&f, key back at the peak of his game who has 5 years left on his contract to some team who think he may be their missing piece for pick 8-10.?

Would you be happy with that if Sydney decided they liked the look of Harris Andrews?
Yank the other one.

 

[Obeanie1]

May is also a Premiership player, and was AA in 2021. Amazing the recognition you get in a good team.

Did he have those when he was traded as a pre agent?

No.

What would he be worth AFTER making the AA team and becoming a premiership player?

 

[ziad]

Rocket surgery, that sounds like our medical team.

Its not brain surgury

 

[ziad]

Just to clear up any potential confusion…. I am not Ziads wife

I can neither confirm nor deny this. They may identify that way.

 

[Obeanie1]

Well if it wasn't your proposed tarde, the post I replied to propose: pick 6, pick 22 and possibly a later pick. There were also proposed trades of pick 6 and McDonald, and others where Sydney were paying pick 6 and Chad Warner.

I've said pick 6 on it's own is agreeable. If you want Sydney to include pick 44 (their 5th pick) and maybe do a late pick swap of 44 for 55, that's ok.

But I believe asking for any combination of pick 6 plus one of the following; pick 22, or Logan McDonald, or Chad Warner is asking for too much.

Late token pick swaps in the 3rd round isnt going to cut it and you know it.

The add on needs to be a min pick 22 or a young player of value and interest. EG: Sheldrick.

 

[Obeanie1]

Its not brain surgury

Rocket surgery is the joke meme when talking to not veey smart people.

 

[ziad]

Rocket surgery is the joke meme when talking to not veey smart people.

Its also a surgeons joke about a people introducing them selves at a party. RE: Rocket and Brain Surgury.

 

[Bacchus]

Show me a recent comparable deal, for a key defender that involves a top 10 pick.

I pointed out that the Dunkley trade wasn't comparable. Yes he was contracted, but there was no top 10 pick involved, and the picks that were involved are unlikely to get you a trade in to the top 10.


Unless any such trade discussions involve a Brisbane player, I'm trying to offer a neutral perspective in such discussions, as I don't have any biases towards either team.

Your so called neutral perspective is biased in Sydney’s favour.

In order to understand the situation you need to imagine what you would think if a similar poaching raid was happening to a Brisbane player.
Let’s use McCluggage as an example. Let’s say our recruiters like the look of him and think he could make our team significantly better. We go to you at Brisbane and say we like the look of McCluggage, we’er going to offer him a 25% increase in his remuneration and he is happy to come to Perth. We’ll offer you pick 10 and you should take it because that’s a fair offer (from our pov).

A neutral observer (like you in this situation) says pick 10 for McCluggage, yeah that’s fair you ought to take it.

Would you be happy with this arrangement? I don’t think so. And Barrass plays a far more critical role in a football team than McCluggage does. There’s a reason why Sydney would like Barrass - he is in the the top echelon of key defenders in the league and is not nearing the end of his career. He’s also contracted which means WC don’t have to allow him to go anywhere if a potential poacher’s offer doesn’t suit them.

 

[Bacchus]

I'm not ignoring that. I acknowledged that in my reply to Keys.

But I countered that with he's older than your typical restricted free agent, and possibly only has 4 years of top line footy left in him.

Pick 6 alone is a high price for possibly only 4 years of a player.

I'm looking at the risk reward for Sydney in such a trade.

Pick 6 could be Dan Curtin or Connor O'Sullivan, Nate Caddy or Archer Reid, a 12 year player for Sydney. Yes he'd be young, but they have a young list, with the potential to add 3 more top 30 picks this year, to a young group that should keep them in finals contention for the next decade or so.

You're proposed trade potentially removes the best two of those picks this year, for a player that may only have 4 years left in him. He may decide to head back to WA after that contract, even if he still has more football in him.

This years draftees are not going to be standing Tom Hawkins or Jezza Cameron or Charlie Dixon and helping you win a premiership.
In five years they might. That’s the big difference between them and Tom Barrass.
Tom Barrass is far more valuable as a player for the next four years than any pick 6 unless he is Chris Judd.

 

[bzparkes]

Post that on the Sydney board.

His partner quit her influencer job in Perth and is looking for influencer jobs in Sydney, I heard..

 

[Mop]

His partner quit her influencer job in Perth and is looking for influencer jobs in Sydney, I heard..

The Sydney influencer scene is the place to be in Aus though, lets be real. Much bigger pond than ol Perthie Perth

 

[Wooshaaaa]

briztoon .

Also a key position draftee is not a 13-15 year player, it's a load of s**t. They are nobodies to being with, a win your position player in year 4/5 and a potential star player between years 6/7-10/11 before generally before falling away.

This is 100% on Pointe. Spot on.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Oh great, the annual “let’s take delisting fodder from other clubs because they are west Australian and therefore superhuman” post.

Zero chance he is delisting fodder. Just fights for a spot Gold Coast have a ton of depth in. Took Rory Atkins months of getting 30+ possessions to get a go

 

[garlic munchers]

Its not brain surgury

"surgery", its not Rocket Science!

 

[Obeanie1]

"surgery", its not Rocket Science!

It's a joke take.....geez.

 

[briztoon]

So you just hand over your reigning b&f, key back at the peak of his game who has 5 years left on his contract to some team who think he may be their missing piece for pick 8-10.?

Would you be happy with that if Sydney decided they liked the look of Harris Andrews?
Yank the other one.

4 years left.

I don’t believe Barrass is the sole missing link for Sydney. He would be part of what’s needed, as I also believe they need a mature key forward.

Did he have those when he was traded as a pre agent?

No.

What would he be worth AFTER making the AA team and becoming a premiership player?

I’ve acknowledged those points, and my continual counter has been Barrass is older and potentially has less time left in the game.

It’s a point none of you have acknowledged (well Keys did) or have been willing to even include in your discussion.


I’ve also touched on that losing Barrass isn’t worth it for West Coast. You potentially put yourself further back than where you currently are, and risk going down North’s route of being totally bereft of talent, that it takes the best part of a decade to become competitive.

 

[DanWCE]

I’ve also touched on that losing Barrass isn’t worth it for West Coast. You potentially put yourself further back than where you currently are, and risk going down North’s route of being totally bereft of talent, that it takes the best part of a decade to become competitive.

Which is exactly why we wouldn't wrap a bow around him for pick 6.

 

[bzparkes]

4 years left.

I don’t believe Barrass is the sole missing link for Sydney. He would be part of what’s needed, as I also believe they need a mature key forward.

I’ve acknowledged those points, and my continual counter has been Barrass is older and potentially has less time left in the game.

It’s a point none of you have acknowledged (well Keys did) or have been willing to even include in your discussion.


I’ve also touched on that losing Barrass isn’t worth it for West Coast. You potentially put yourself further back than where you currently are, and risk going down North’s route of being totally bereft of talent, that it takes the best part of a decade to become competitive.

Don't forget Sydney's the club who gave Franklin a 9 year deal at the age of 26. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they'd expect to get 6 years out of Barrass, who's been relatively durable during his career.

The fact of the matter is that his age is completely irrelevant, no matter how many times you argue it. If you desperately want something the other party doesn't want to sell, you need to pay well over to convince them to sell it to begin with, no offer what's 'fair' because you'll just get told no.

 

[Truckosaurus]

B&F's are never good for key defenders. They're also usually a midfielders award. If a defender is winning it in a poor season for a club, well it's probably cause the midfield was crap.

The best Andrews has ever poled in ours was 4th. When he won his first AA, he came 10th in our B&F.

I can't speak for Brisbane's BnF system but in ours the players aren't competing against each other for points. They're assessed each game (out of 5 or 10, can't remember which) based on their performance against the role they were given rather than the best on ground being selected. Consequently, defenders can do quite well in our BnF and frequently win it or finish top 5.

The flip side is it heavily favours games played and missing a month of footy is fatal to your chances.

 

[briztoon]

Your so called neutral perspective is biased in Sydney’s favour.

In order to understand the situation you need to imagine what you would think if a similar poaching raid was happening to a Brisbane player.
Let’s use McCluggage as an example. Let’s say our recruiters like the look of him and think he could make our team significantly better. We go to you at Brisbane and say we like the look of McCluggage, we’er going to offer him a 25% increase in his remuneration and he is happy to come to Perth. We’ll offer you pick 10 and you should take it because that’s a fair offer (from our pov).

A neutral observer (like you in this situation) says pick 10 for McCluggage, yeah that’s fair you ought to take it.

Would you be happy with this arrangement? I don’t think so. And Barrass plays a far more critical role in a football team than McCluggage does. There’s a reason why Sydney would like Barrass - he is in the the top echelon of key defenders in the league and is not nearing the end of his career. He’s also contracted which means WC don’t have to allow him to go anywhere if a potential poacher’s offer doesn’t suit them.

McCluggage is younger, and still has scope to improve (his development/performances have plateaued since we moved him inside).

That’s been the main point of my argument.

If Barrass was 26 and a pre-agent, I’d definitely say he’d be worth similar to what the Lions payed for Neale.

Barrass is at his peak now. Potentially 2 more years at that peak, then a slight/gradual/steady drop off in to his 30’s.

Not every player is the same. Some continue to keep performing well beyond 30.

30 it’s the “magic” age almost everyone, on every team board point to, as when players start to decline, and people start discussing what type of contracts post 30 players should be on.

Barrass will be 28 later this year.

That has been the point of my discussion. Sydney would not be receiving the same length of service that May will have given Melbourne, or West Coast would receive trading for a younger McCluggage.

 

[briztoon]

briztoon I think you're getting to the point where arguing with a Mod on this board about a trade almost certain not to happen with a club that doesn't involve yours is getting to the point of wearing out your welcome.

Pick 6 in this draft is at best a 50/50 shot of being as good or maybe a slightly better player than Barrass. For a player who is the only reason we didn't finish last season with zero wins and who is contracted for 4 more years, 1 first round draft pick is nowhere near close to getting it done.

WCE aren't going to let him go for anything less than a top tier young talent/player + a first rounder or the equivalent of two top 10 picks. Something might head back but that's the hand when you hold all the cards.

Is Brisbane or anyone else wanted Dunkley at the end of 2021 the price was two top 10 draft picks. The big difference between being contracted and uncontracted.

Also a key position draftee is not a 13-15 year player, it's a load of s**t. They are nobodies to being with, a win your position player in year 4/5 and a potential star player between years 6/7-10/11 before generally before falling away.

Hi WCE_phil all valid points.

I’ve replied to a couple of posters this morning. Hope that’s okay.

 

[Tugga27]

McCluggage is younger, and still has scope to improve (his development/performances have plateaued since we moved him inside).

That’s been the main point of my argument.

If Barrass was 26 and a pre-agent, I’d definitely say he’d be worth similar to what the Lions payed for Neale.

Barrass is at his peak now. Potentially 2 more years at that peak, then a slight/gradual/steady drop off in to his 30’s.

Not every player is the same. Some continue to keep performing well beyond 30.

30 it’s the “magic” age almost everyone, on every team board point to, as when players start to decline, and people start discussing what type of contracts post 30 players should be on.

Barrass will be 28 later this year.

That has been the point of my discussion. Sydney would not be receiving the same length of service that May will have given Melbourne, or West Coast would receive trading for a younger McCluggage.

I think you've missed his point TBH.

McCluggage was just used as an example.
Use any player and his argument stacks up.

 

[twce13]

This is a pretty irrelevant hill for you to die on old mate.

Starting to question if you even come in peace anymore.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

4 years left.

I don’t believe Barrass is the sole missing link for Sydney. He would be part of what’s needed, as I also believe they need a mature key forward.

I’ve acknowledged those points, and my continual counter has been Barrass is older and potentially has less time left in the game.

It’s a point none of you have acknowledged (well Keys did) or have been willing to even include in your discussion.


I’ve also touched on that losing Barrass isn’t worth it for West Coast. You potentially put yourself further back than where you currently are, and risk going down North’s route of being totally bereft of talent, that it takes the best part of a decade to become competitive.

Barrass one is hard, on one hand the potential to bring in talent plus a high pick it tantalising, let's call it the Rowbottom and pick 6 scenario floated. We get a young tough midfielder who is in the perfect age bracket for our list need and add pick 6 to our current haul. Would go a long way to our list rebuild.

On the other hand, we're gutting our defence and experience. He is the key pillar (first picked) in the defensive half, takes the key forward and his intercept marking is probably best in the league*, so we would be relying on young guys to hold up the defence. This could set us back massively, Tex got off the chain against young defenders, Lewis kicked 6 for the hawks, and Curnow destroyed Rotham. This could mean those young defenders never realise their true potential as they get smashed every week. He also brings training standards and experience for the young players to learn off, take that away and things slip.

It's not such an easy decision.


*Intercept marking relies heavily on midfield pressure, to ensure kicking inside 50 is more of a dump kick inside 50 so defenders can pick it off. Our current midfield provides very little pressure, so oppositions have time to lower their eyes and hit up leading targets which takes away from TB's main weapon. He does still manage plenty of intercept marks despite our crab midfield!

 

[Truckosaurus]