List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Bacchus]

Depends on how a conversation goes.

Club -"Hey Tom, Sydney came asking about you again and what kind of deal we'd want to release you. We know you're happy here but just FYI, we'll be down for a while and probably won't play finals for the rest of your contract. We'd love to keep you to assist with the rebuild but fully understand if you want to explore other options. Do you want us to have a chat with them, bearing in mind we won't agree to a trade if we don't suitably benefit from it."

TB - "Yeah, I don't mind either way. Happy to stay but option to other options if it means playing finals and benefits the club."

Barrass seems pretty easy-going, so if the club proposed it, I imagine he'd be willing to listen. Club would never push him though and at the end of the day he'd be happy to stay if WCE declined a trade, or he'd go if he was open to the idea and WCE were happy with what they were getting.

Can't honestly see him being 'disgruntled' either way.

Disagree with this totally.

I think Tom and his wife would have a very strong and definite opinion on where they want to live.

 

[Haggas]

Barrass is contracted unlike the bloke your team poached.

They will be paying a hefty price if they really want to get him rather than flying kites.

No team is over paying for Barrass.
I know your hurt because your team over paid and put your team back 5 years with the Kelly trade


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[Grahame]

We have traded with freo in the past but theres a difference between a trade and a deliberate strategy to help freo win the flag which was basically what was suggested


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Absolutely did not suggest a 'deliberate strategy to help Freo win the flag' but rather a strategy that might help both clubs overcome some of the inherent disadvantages in this VFL/AFL. Win:win. Sure it might help Freo win a flag but it might also help us win a flag. And to be honest my dislike of The Cockburns is far less than my dislike of the AFL.

I would like all the non-Vic clubs to win every year. And if we can't win it I'm not against another non-Vic club winning it and if that happens to be Fremantle then good luck to them. Anything to stick it up the Vics (and I'm Victorian in all things but the VFL/AFL). I love beating them but - unlike the Dockers supporters - I consider winning the flag more important.

Just on the disadvantages the WA teams let me state two biggies:
1. Pavlich played about the same number of games as Kade Simpson but travelled more than seven times further. Suggesting that has no impact is laughable; and,
2. non-Vic players have a choice of one other team if they don't want the really significant upheaval of relocating away from family, friends, schools etc; the Vics have a choice of nine. That's a makes a heck of a difference in trading. Eg. realistically most late career players from WA would not want the upheaval of relocating to Vic for the last year or three. But to change from say NM to Ess ... easy. That may mean e.g. Gov plays out meaningless games for him and us when if we were a Vic club we could get something for him.

 

[Obeanie1]

Disagree with this totally.

I think Tom and his wife would have a very strong and definite opinion on where they want to live.

Nothing happens unless player and partner agree to itt. That was inferred in the scenario where TB indicated he (an his partner) would consider looking at options.

And no doubt the question would be asked but not without input from player managers who ultimately it is their jobs to keep their client appraised of any offers. The player manager is the key, they present their client with options.

We cant be hard arses like Collingwood because Perth only has two teams and not 10. And the travel factor definately comes into play.

 

[Hook461123]

No team is over paying for Barrass.
I know your hurt because your team over paid and put your team back 5 years with the Kelly trade


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We don't want to trade him. He is our reigning B&F and along with Allan and Duggan is in contention to be our next captain.
We're not discussing what hes worth or what is a fair trade we are discussing what it would take to trade him.

Yeah ok I'll go back 5 years, we had just won a premiership and were looking at creating a dynasty so took a punt on an all australian mid/fwd.
We took a swing and missed but I'd rather go for the cup then be conservative and stay stuck in the middle somewhere. Kelly isn't our problem its just an easy argument for outsiders to make.

 

[JackOutback]

Sorry mods, I couldn’t let that little gem slide by without reacting. Carry on everyone.

You're doing God's work. I missed that gem and it's given me by biggest laugh of the day, maybe the season.

 

[guero]

I know your hurt because your team over paid and put your team back 5 years with the Kelly trade


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wut

I’m not sure this stooge comes in peace. Floggy Port posters being up and about because their team is travelling well are worse than floggy Freo posters being up and about because their team is travelling well. There, I said it. Although it could just be that much rarer for the Shockers to be travelling well.

 

[thebutterflyeffect]

What disadvantages?
You forget recently WA clubs have had a few go home factors.
Kelly gone home?
Jackson gone home?


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I certainly think there are disadvantages regarding longevity and injuries. I would love an independent body to do on the impacts of travel on a afl career. The WA teams clearly travel more than any other teams and seem to have players fall of a cliff - my hunch is that injuries and general fatigue are impacted significantly by the regular flights.

I would think the travel impacts on career length and therefore earning capacity. Like I said above an independent review of this would be fascinating

The fact we have had one 300 game player over three successful eras (indicating we are not refreshing the list regularly therefore cutting careers short) is a definite red flag

 

[WCE_phil]

The more tactical the game becomes the more travel is a disadvantage. Most WA based players 25+ are mainly just doing recovery and one minor training session week to week to get up for games.

Also player managers dont just sit there and present offers. Their job is to themselves and the company they work for, not the players they manage. They actively hunt down the best possible offers from other clubs and then present it to players with support of the potential new club. That is how they maximise their income. They are bottom feeding campaigners who are the bane of AFL clubs and peddle bullshit all in the interest of increasing their income.

 

[Balls In]

No, Shuey, Hurn, NN and Gaff have to go. Main contributing factor to the injury crisis, as well as potentially maintaining the illusion that we are a decent team if all were fit. It would be disastrous if Shuey kept going.

Shuey is still an A grade mid for the most part when he is on the field, Hurn has been solid to better than solid in most of his games, if Nic can get out there in the centre he would still be awe inspiring to the likes of Ginbey and Hewett and chop out BBBW. Gaff has played lots of games this year, mostly out of position and while he's had a poor year is not nearly as bad as people have made out. I see the reasons for moving them on but the key point is where are you going to magic their replacements from?

 

[mattyc75]

West coast bigfooty posters after a loss.. barrass cant defend 1 on 1, loopy kicks out of the backline are rubbish, cant play him and gov together
West coast bigfooty posters after apparent interest in barrass from sydney... he's the premier full back in the comp, 2+ first rounders at a minimum

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[bUCKET__]

SA

• Sid Draper
• Moir
• Goad
• Slade
• Holt

These are actually character names from a gritty industrial neo-Noir dystopian detective story I've been writing.

 

[Wormkilla]

When are heads going to roll for turning us into a national sporting embarrassment? The current West Coast team is probably the worst AFL team to ever take the field. I literally would back every WAFL team to do us by 10 goals.

Pathetic there’s still fans out there defending the list management atrocities. This was coming for years.

 

[Wormkilla]

He's not right and you're being a little Nancy bitch.

The crisis is not a crisis. Crisies are for Karens.

But why are we in this position?

Because we built a list over 10 years to win flags, and we won one. When you're in the flag window, you not only get late draft picks but you trade for the now. You have to strike while the iron is hot. So 10 years without a top 10 draft pick is going to have an effect.

We could have traded out Gaff and Gov a few years back (and I strongly suggested we do it), but we didn't. The biggest issue we had/have is not the list state now but the fact that we didn't realise the game plan was a bust while we had a list capable of winning another flag.

Right now, we're on a full rebuild. We haven't made the same mistake Hawks made (drafting Mitchell, O'meara, Wingard), or Richmond (Taranto and Hopper), we've accepted this list can't compete and we're turning it over in draft rather than the trade table.

Shuey, Nic, Gov, Yeo. All on last legs. Almost no trade value so may as well have them to guide youth.

We're doing fine, just some people are so entitled they think they're above supporting a side that has to pay its penance down the bottom.

We're rebuilding and probably on target. It's all good.

This is aging well

 

[bzparkes]

Disagree with this totally.

I think Tom and his wife would have a very strong and definite opinion on where they want to live.

Do you know this for a fact?

Plenty of people are 'fluent' in where they live, provided the opportunity is beneficial.

 

[CountryLad]

Finished the Vic Metro Vs SA game:

SA

• Sid Draper is already my favourite underager this year (that sounds wrong), last year it was Harley and year before Elijah Hewett. Kid is a jet, clearance machine with speed.
• Moir, moved to half back during the game and thought he was really good once he made that move, great in traffic, vision and disposal was class. Don't write him off yet.
• Goad, really really like him as a 207cm project ruckman. High on my list as I think Edwards will be gone.
• Slade, good player who doesn't get enough of a mention anywhere. Good skills, he's a fighter and never gives up. Good winger to have.
• Holt, similar to Slade in lots of ways but more half back.

Vic Metro: thought they'd be weakest VM side for years but were surprisingly strong.

• Jagga Smith, Josh Smillie and Levi Ashcroft all underagers and absolute weapons. They were the three best for Vic Metro, think they helped prop up the VM side.
• Will Lorenz, great game. He's a winger with a great first step (feedback from recruiters) that can get himself out of traffic and into space. Left footer with nice skills on inside and outside, and is very dangerous around goals. Grandfather is Graham Arthur on his mums side.
• Jordan Croft, his first half was electric. 200cm, but is really quick and can move like a quick midfielder - dogs have got another good F/S. He's edging towards top 5 territory.
• Ollie Murphy, 200cm key defender from Sandy Dragons and flying under the radar. All the talk has been on Patton and O'Sullivan, this guy represents some real value as a KPD who looks to read the ball in flight really really well. He should definitely be on our radar!!!
• Watson, I've held my tongue a little on him being top 2 talent as wanted to see how he went this year. He's too small to be considered top 5 IMO and if we had two picks inside top 10 I'm not sure I'd take him!!! Kicked 4 goals, but a few were free kicks where he went looking for the free kick like a Cody Weightman or a Ginnivan. There was nothing special about him in this game. I'm not saying he's no good, he's very talented but I just expected more from him.
• Cam Nyko, really like this kid. He's got explosiveness, good skills and strong over head.
• Archie Roberts, is being very underrated at this stage. Very good half back with a beautiful left foot on him.
• Philcatides, love the way he takes the game on, can look so good but also prone to the odd mistake when he doesn't have an option and has already committed to taking it on.
• K.Brown, Dees F/S who is a very handy midfielder.
• Will Brown, was excited to see him at stoppages. Started the game well, although not sure about his kicking and didn't see him in the second half.
• Plenty of others for VM that had great games, but they did dominate so went with the above who I thought were reason for the dominance. Windsor, Morris, Datolli, Johnston all had good games.

Watched 10 mins of the WA game last night, will finish it off today.

Just finished watching the game to.

Smillie gives me Bont vibes.

Murphy is more project but yeah would be a good pickup seeing both Curtin and Connor probably go 1st round.

Was nice to see that Moir actually has something to offer. It was still pretty low output with just the 17 touches but at least he got enough of it to show us his foot skills. He would still be a long way behind a number of the half back types that you mentioned.

The WA game is a tough watch the foot skills from the boys from the west are horrible. Edwards, Curtin were solid and I thought Torrent And Hall tried hard. Collard looks an interesting prospect would take a bit of building those little chicken wings up though.

 

[Goroyals22]

Shuey is still an A grade mid for the most part when he is on the field, Hurn has been solid to better than solid in most of his games, if Nic can get out there in the centre he would still be awe inspiring to the likes of Ginbey and Hewett and chop out BBBW. Gaff has played lots of games this year, mostly out of position and while he's had a poor year is not nearly as bad as people have made out. I see the reasons for moving them on but the key point is where are you going to magic their replacements from?

Well anyone that isn’t injured or have a history of injuries would be an improvement on 3 of them… anyone can be better than gaff. Hell paddy Dow deserves a go in our side before he does… Dev Robertson would be an improvement on gaff. I said last year we should have gotten Briggs from gws. Now we should get either a Flynn, Jordan sweet or heaven forbid Pruess would improve what we have.


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[ArdentEagle]

Sorry mods, I couldn’t let that little gem slide by without reacting. Carry on everyone.

What the **** was you old Username mate?

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

There is no way Sydney are giving up pick 7, 22 and Sheldrick for Barrass hahah


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Then we keep him not a big deal . We are not actively shopping contracted players around like port do .

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Shuey is still an A grade mid for the most part when he is on the field, Hurn has been solid to better than solid in most of his games, if Nic can get out there in the centre he would still be awe inspiring to the likes of Ginbey and Hewett and chop out BBBW. Gaff has played lots of games this year, mostly out of position and while he's had a poor year is not nearly as bad as people have made out. I see the reasons for moving them on but the key point is where are you going to magic their replacements from?

When was the last A grade game shuey played for the club ?

 

[Balls In]

When was the last A grade game shuey played for the club ?

Against Freo was easily bog until injured. Don't get me wrong of course if we didn't have a disaster of a list these guys would be gone. But we do. And offing these guys adds nothing and damages the development of the younger players.

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Absolutely did not suggest a 'deliberate strategy to help Freo win the flag' but rather a strategy that might help both clubs overcome some of the inherent disadvantages in this VFL/AFL. Win:win. Sure it might help Freo win a flag but it might also help us win a flag. And to be honest my dislike of The Cockburns is far less than my dislike of the AFL.

I would like all the non-Vic clubs to win every year. And if we can't win it I'm not against another non-Vic club winning it and if that happens to be Fremantle then good luck to them. Anything to stick it up the Vics (and I'm Victorian in all things but the VFL/AFL). I love beating them but - unlike the Dockers supporters - I consider winning the flag more important.

Just on the disadvantages the WA teams let me state two biggies:
1. Pavlich played about the same number of games as Kade Simpson but travelled more than seven times further. Suggesting that has no impact is laughable; and,
2. non-Vic players have a choice of one other team if they don't want the really significant upheaval of relocating away from family, friends, schools etc; the Vics have a choice of nine. That's a makes a heck of a difference in trading. Eg. realistically most late career players from WA would not want the upheaval of relocating to Vic for the last year or three. But to change from say NM to Ess ... easy. That may mean e.g. Gov plays out meaningless games for him and us when if we were a Vic club we could get something for him.

Security!!! SECURITY!!!!!!

 

[guero]

What the * was you old Username mate?

Tonga Bob*. I abandoned my old team for a much better one, so also abandoned my old user name for a much better one.

*I’d tag him me, but I don’t think the mods would like that.

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Just so you know I’m not jumping on the bandwagon; I bagged Barass earlier in the season as being overrated.
Tough? Yes
Great mark ? Yes
Good in body on body? Nah
Good kick? Nah
Tight marker? Nah
Right foot? Nah
And people are right. Him and Gov do get in each other’s way.
Choice of a fit Gov V a fit Barass? Gov any day!

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Against Freo was easily bog until injured. Don't get me wrong of course if we didn't have a disaster of a list these guys would be gone. But we do. And offing these guys adds nothing and damages the development of the younger players.

Being almost best on ground for us doesn't necessarily mean A grade in this side atm